McBeth is an ok QB, but barely adequate as a starter.
Here's hoping Ricky Ray comes back for 1 more (healthy) year next year to revive the Argos
McBeth is an ok QB, but barely adequate as a starter.
Here's hoping Ricky Ray comes back for 1 more (healthy) year next year to revive the Argos
So based on 6 career starts you know this for a fact? You realize he performed better against the Riders than Ricky did in game 1 right?
Yes and yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloV
You must be very smart then.
Yes. But it doesn't take a genius to figure this one outQuote:
Originally Posted by AngeloV
Disagree, the Argos need to find their future guy (MBT, Franklin or ???).Quote:
Originally Posted by Argobouncer
Very short term fix factoring Ray into the equation.
What was the question? :)
That’s good for you. Because you have certainly demonstrated that you are no genius.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argobouncer
I’m comfortable with either MBT or JF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Argo57
Nor have you. In any wayQuote:
Originally Posted by AngeloV
McLeod is not young in age but he has had very little actual game experience, of which there is no substitute IMO. He throws a good hard spiral and is fairly accurate up to 25-30 yards. To me he lacks that accurate touch on his deep balls that Ricky Ray and the top NFL QB's have, throwing the ball where only the receiver has the best shot at catching the ball. Will he ever develop that? Maybe, maybe not consistently. He is starting to hold unto the ball too long which is a trait of most developing QB's after they have been picked off a few times. I think his protection has been pretty good, something Ricky hasn't had here until the last half of last season. But the only way he or Franklin are ever going to develop are to play and the growing pains come with that. IMO Franklin has a better deep ball touch and he puts more air under the ball. I would sure have liked to have seen a couple of balls put up in the heavens last night and see Duron Carter run under them. But it almost looked to me like Duron is still going through his probation period, running routes, hustling etc. and all that stuff before he starts getting his number called. Trestman has already proved they can't win without him involved. Maybe Carter will get a try at an onside kick next game.
But getting back to McLeod, he has done enough to get a couple of wins except for a few unfortunate circumstances.
MBT is doing his job as a backup and definitely beats out any other third stringer but he is not at that elite level required to muster out wins. While a lot of the blame put on him is unwarranted IMO, I have no problem with going back to Franklin just to see if he has any potential as the long term replacement. Like others, I fear we'll let him go without giving him a real shot to start and will be left scrambling to find another QB. Now, lets be honest, other than the win vs Edmonton, Franklin had played himself out of the job. While MBT has fared better, he hasn't exactly "won" the job either.
It's a complicated situation, MBT hasn't been terrible and Franklin wasn't great. There is no reason to really pull MBT at this point other than curiosity surrounding whether Franklin can provide a greater spark than MBT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngeloV
MacBeth is IMO a journeyman, decent back-up QB type - he won't lead a team anywhere - just like Kevin Glenn never did and Matt Nichols won't. If you're good with an average at best, but more like way sub-par CFL starter leading the Argos, then, hey, have at 'er.
Franklin = who knows still? - but wayyyyyy more potential than MacBeth IMO; mobility alone along with a strong arm can do way more in the CFL than a lead-foot pocket passer who is more a limited game manager.
LOVE to see Ricky Ray bounce back and have a couple of more good years leading the Argos to GC appearances, but good luck with that one.
Argos need lots of QB competition in TC next year - find another Pipkin or Strevler type and hope they develop and can compete in TC with whoever - Franklin, MacBeth, Skip Prukop; that, plus have Professor genius Trestman bring in an innovative, diverse, fresh thinking offensive assistant to help or prod him. Both are probably doubtful with this regime, but you never know i guess.
I have never argued the point that Franklin has more potential and even agree that he is the preferable starter. My entire stance is on the fact that MBT is taking way more blame than he deserves, despite the fact he has been the best Argos QB on the field this year. I disagreed when Franklin was benched. Ideally MBT will be the guy coming off the bench, but the Argos failed to score more than 20 points in their first 6 games, and have surpassed that total in each of MBT’s starts, so he must be doing something right.Quote:
Originally Posted by OV Argo
The Argos OL and blocking scheme was horrible in the first 6 games (something that's been overlooked quite a bit as late around here). Declan Cross is rarely used in the passing game now, and just seems to go in now for extra blocking. Deane has also gone in for extra blocking as well as of late. This isn't the same OL that started the season or even started in Franklin's last game.
I'd love to see Prukop get a real shot here as I've liked him since day one, but that ain't going to happen with this regime. Franklin IMO has considerably more potential than Thompson has, and while he played mediocre to poor in his 4 outings; the offensive line was horrendous (Argos were second worst for sacks against), Green and Edwards couldn't catch colds, and Wilder got off to a real slow start (part of that on the OL admitedly), so why not give him a shot with the blocking scheme tweaks, Bomben, Deane, Carter, and a PO'd Wilder ?
McBLT is at best a mid range game manager (Nichols 2.0 IMO) - does enough where if everything works out they may win, but doesn't really win you games. I suppose that may be why Trestman likes him so much - doesn't really lose you the game, but doesn't win it either. Last year the defence is why we went 9-9 and won the Grey Cup (at least for the most part) - our D clearly ain't the same this season, so playing conservative offense and hoping for the best is a one of the reasons we ain't winning. Yeah, our defence sucks, but the Edmonton, Montreal, and Sask games were winnable (our D at least kept us in) and yet the offence couldn't do what was needed for the wins.
As for the notion that Ray is the answer: I'm not going to sit here and say whether or not he has another good season in him, but at best bringing back Ray as a starter next year is a short term solution. Ray has nothing left to prove, and this recent injury should make him think about his future. Argos can't keep delaying the inevitable.... they have to find the future.
Regarding MBT, let's accept there are differing opinions regarding his performances but let's also recognize each person's opinion has merit and we value those opinions even if they differ from our own.
IMO, MBT has demonstrated he does have skills but not at the level necessary to be a top level QB in this league. I may be wrong in that assessment but his performance to date, along with his age leads me to think, it is unlikely he will develop into a Ray or Mitchell level QB.
Since it is highly unlikely the team will make the playoffs, it is important that the team attempts to determine who is the best prospect to be the team's future QB. The team has already made a heavy investment in Franklin and it would appear to be essential to ascertain if he is worth that investment. The only way to discover if he does have the potential to be the QB for the future, is for him to get substantial playing time. Will he be better than MBT and will he show he is the QB for the future? Who knows. However, I do know the questions will not be answered by him standing on the side lines.
MBT doesn't let the score or mistakes rattle him but I cannot see him developing into a good first string QB. He has not shown any ability to throw an accurate deep ball, which means teams will play receivers tight even if the Argos had a very good deep threat because MBT is only going to rarely be able to get the ball to him deep. Although MBT may improve his reads and other aspects of the game with more CFL experience, I just don't see a 30 year old developing the arm to deliver the ball deep with accuracy, if he can't already do that. Furthermore, arm strength tends to decrease past 30, so the best we could get IMO from MBT is a good backup. I don't know if Franklin will develop into a good QB, but there is only one way to find out: give him the starting job and you will at least have a better idea (but not an absolute guarantee either way) of whether that is the case or not. If Trestman is interested in developing Franklin, it's better to do it now when the chances of making the playoffs are very low than wait until next year with a QB learning and likely losing some games because of his inexperience.
My bet is Trestmen will go with MBT until we're officially out of the playoffs.
After that he needs to give Franklin a few more games.
Remember MBT is a free agent after this year, so don't be surprised if he trys the new Alliance league.
As much as I believe Franklin is the future, I'm starting to think it won't happen in Trestman's offence. Like others have stated, the offence needs more diversity. ie using Cross more etc.
Any thought of Ray playing next year is foolish. He's a future HOF but the Argos need to move on.
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatto
I think there is zero chance Ricky Ray will expose himself to the risk of playing again. As for MBT and JF, I still believe both guys have the potential to become long-term starters in this league. Imo the jury is still out on both but I wouldn't rule either out from having a long, productive career based on what I've seen from them in game action. I'd like to see both guys with a better o-line than we have had this year, and a full complement of good receivers, but we have what we have and that's all we can go on at this point. I do agree with AngeloV that some of MBT's apparent problems with deep throws are probably a result of heavy pressure forcing rushed throws.