CFL and Argos looking at solution for BMO end zone turf and attendance problems

Good news. The league and the Argos are examining ways to fix the CFL end zone problem. The article later also discusses the Argos', Als' and Lions' attendance problem.

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CFL commissioner Randy Ambrosie says the Toronto Argonauts are looking at how to rectify the turf issue at BMO Field.
Most of BMO Field’s playing surface is natural grass. But the entire north end zone is turf as is a portion of the south end zone.
The difference in surfaces has caused problems, highlighted in the second quarter of a game Saturday when Edmonton receiver Derel Walker slipped and fell in the north end zone, allowing Toronto defensive back Ronnie Yell to intercept a pass and preserve a 12-4 advantage. That turned out to be a crucial play as the Argos eventually won 20-17.

Ambrosie saw Walker’s slip firsthand as he attended the game with Toronto governor Dale Lastman and club president Bill Manning. Ambrosie said all three discussed the matter afterwards and that the Argos are well aware of the situation and actively pursuing a resolution.
However, Ambrosie said finding a suitable fix isn’t an easy matter.

“It’s not like you and I and six other guys showing up with some sod and laying it down on a weekend,” Ambrosie said Tuesday. “What I learned Saturday night after having that conversation is it’s much more complicated than that.
“I found Bill and Dale very engaged on the issue and they’re exploring what the options are. We’ll just keep having the conversation with them and hopefully at some point we’ll find a solution that makes sense for all parties.”

Edmonton quarterback Mike Reilly said Walker slipped because he was running on turf. ...

“The to Toronto turf monster (endzone) strikes again!!!! It’s Changing games now!!” tweeted Ottawa receiver Greg Ellingson.
But Ellingson also said receivers use the turf to their advantage.
“Also used by offence to break routes off before the endzone. Making dbs change direction in the endzone. Slipping in the process,” he added via Twitter.
Hamilton defensive back Courtney Stephen tweeted: “It makes NO Sense. It’s not safe at all.”
Ambrosie, a former CFL offensive lineman, admits he has player safety concerns regarding the BMO Field turf.

“I worry about it,” he said. “We’ve received feedback from the Players’ Association that they’re worried about it as well. ...

Another startling development Saturday was the attendance. Only 12,196 spectators watched the defending Grey Cup champions earn their first win of the season after 16,450 attended Toronto’s home opener, a 41-7 Grey Cup rematch loss to Calgary on June 23.
Maple Leafs Sports & Entertainment is in its first season owning the Argos. The company certainly faces an uphill battle rebuilding a franchise that averaged under 14,000 fans last season but Ambrosie remains bullish on MLSE’s financial clout and marketing resources. ...

The Montreal Alouettes drew 16,718 fans to their 28-18 home loss to Ottawa on Friday night after 19,498 watched them drop their season opener 56-10 to Winnipeg on June 22. And the B.C. Lions host Winnipeg on Saturday night in their first home game since June 16 when they attracted 20,182 spectators to a 22-10 victory over the Als.
However, Ambrosie feels B.C. is in good hands with new president Rick LeLacheur, who was part of two Grey Cup-winning teams as Edmonton’s president.

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https://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...d-turf-issues/

If nothing else, this article dispels the notion that Manning went to KC with TFC on Saturday (which had been suggested in a different thread).

I knew Ambrosie was at the game because I saw him at half time, walked up to him, shook his hand and introduced myself as a life long Argonauts fan.

I seemed to be the only one who recognized him.


As for this action by the league and MLSE - they knew about this before the Argonauts moved to BMO Field.
It was easy to predict that the slipping and potential injury situation was there.
Why look to correct it after over two seasons?
I guess humans need to see an eventuality happen before they take precautions against it?

I'm now waiting to hear about addressing the short end zones (17 versus 20 yards AFAIK?) because when a receiver touches down with his toes BARELY out of bounds at a critical moment of a playoff game (Grey Cup maybe?), someone will be screaming that in any other stadium it would have been a touchdown.

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Originally Posted by PullTogether73

As for this action by the league and MLSE - they knew about this before the Argonauts moved to BMO Field.
It was easy to predict that the slipping and potential injury situation was there.
Why look to correct it after over two seasons?
I guess humans need to see an eventuality happen before they take precautions against it?

I'm now waiting to hear about addressing the short end zones (17 versus 20 yards AFAIK?) because when a receiver touches down with his toes BARELY out of bounds at a critical moment of a playoff game (Grey Cup maybe?), someone will be screaming that in any other stadium it would have been a touchdown.

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Don't think its as simple as we think. This will hopefully be fixed for next year. Don't think they can get it done this season.

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Originally Posted by PullTogether73

As for this action by the league and MLSE - they knew about this before the Argonauts moved to BMO Field.
It was easy to predict that the slipping and potential injury situation was there.
Why look to correct it after over two seasons?
I guess humans need to see an eventuality happen before they take precautions against it?

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Umm, maybe because MLSE did not own the Argos until this season, and hence the Argo ownership was a tenant in someone else's building. And yes, I know that they were owned by 62.5 per cent of MLSE's ownership, but I also know that the other 37.5 per cent was not inclined to do the Argos any favours in past years.

As for potential solutions, IMO the only truly viable and possible fix is to make the north stands used for CFL games permanent and stop moving TFC stands further in. That would allow the entire field to be grass. It would also drive TFC supporters nuts, but only a few thousand fans, maximum, can be seated in that section so they may have to bite the bullet and accept being farther back.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

Umm, maybe because MLSE did not own the Argos until this season, and hence the Argo ownership was a tenant in someone else's building. And yes, I know that they were owned by 62.5 per cent of MLSE's ownership, but I also know that the other 37.5 per cent was not inclined to do the Argos any favours in past years.

As for potential solutions, IMO the only truly viable and possible fix is to make the north stands used for CFL games permanent and stop moving TFC stands further in. That would allow the entire field to be grass. It would also drive TFC supporters nuts, but only a few thousand fans, maximum, can be seated in that section so they may have to bite the bullet and accept being farther back.

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Well MLSE doesn't own BMO Field either...

I wonder if they'll also go to 20 Yard Endzones too?

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Originally Posted by Neely2005

Well MLSE doesn't own BMO Field either...

I wonder if they'll also go to 20 Yard Endzones too?

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They look like 20 yards now.

I let out a chuckle when after the game Matt Dunigan said something to the effect "Soccer players are not more important than football players"..

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

Umm, maybe because MLSE did not own the Argos until this season, and hence the Argo ownership was a tenant in someone else's building. And yes, I know that they were owned by 62.5 per cent of MLSE's ownership, but I also know that the other 37.5 per cent was not inclined to do the Argos any favours in past years.

As for potential solutions, IMO the only truly viable and possible fix is to make the north stands used for CFL games permanent and stop moving TFC stands further in. That would allow the entire field to be grass. It would also drive TFC supporters nuts, but only a few thousand fans, maximum, can be seated in that section so they may have to bite the bullet and accept being farther back.

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The CFL has been there the whole time, regardless of ownership. The league's concern should have been there before the move to BMO Field.
However, I understand your point that the CFL was limited in its ability to influence any decision-making.

I agree with your fix above Paul. I don't see any other way - but I'm not an engineer, so who knows if there are any other possibilites?
As for TFC fans, they are never happy anyway, so any change is going to piss them off.
After all, isn't it the Argonauts fault that TFC is having a dismal season?
:p:biteme:

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

If nothing else, this article dispels the notion that Manning went to KC with TFC on Saturday (which had been suggested in a different thread).

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Exact comment in previous thread was a criticism that Argos had:
“ 1. Part time management. Pretty sure management was in Kansas City last night.” First part of comment stands. I stand corrected in balance.

Previous managements were visible at the games and evidence of their participation didn’t emerge in articles days after the event.

Are we really now criticizing Manning for being at the game but not visible enough?

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

Are we really now criticizing Manning for being at the game but not visible enough?

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No. That’s a bit of a stretch even for you Paul. I incorrectly surmised his absence due to him not being visible AND his other equal obligation. He does preside over and is responsible for two teams. Both played on the same night.

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Originally Posted by doubleblue

They look like 20 yards now.

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i believe they are 17 yd end zones

from the bmo field wikipedia page
"(146 x 65 yards) (Canadian football)"
subtract 110 yd in field of play leaves 36 yds for end zones, divide by 2 u get 18 yd end zones 'officially'

i think field end zones must be addressed to have grass everywhere
also
endzone need to be 20 yd long
part of being professional
ambrosie had over a year to maker that happen - he didnt and the league looks worse for it -
that dovetails to attendance
be professional
those 1st 2 games [calgary, ssk] were abysmal showing by the argos
abysmal
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as al davis was fond of saying; "just win baby !"
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i look at that john candy memoir and a packed sky dome and can only dream of 'what if'
the time for league action was then with candy as pitchman - and he would made for a helluva commish

I don't understand the big deal about the endzone. It's a stadium quirk, like the Green Monster. Both teams know it's there, both teams have to deal with it. Artificial turf is not unsafe. When you're playing at that end you have to take it into consideration and adjust your footwork accordingly. What is the frigging problem?

Those temporary bleachers at the North end really take away from the game day experience. Standing there watching the pre game warmups was the the place to be.

But watching the whole game only ONE player, an Esks receiver, slipped down. Is it really a big problem? The Argo players seem to have learned how to cope with the transition. The players need to run around the end zones in the warm up and try different shoes and get used to the tranistion.
Does anyone really think that MLSE will remove seats for the soccer team when standing behind the goal seems to be the place to be for fans?

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Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup

No. That’s a bit of a stretch even for you Paul. I incorrectly surmised his absence due to him not being visible AND his other equal obligation. He does preside over and is responsible for two teams. Both played on the same night.

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Yeah, and you added: "Previous managements were visible at the games and evidence of their participation didn’t emerge in articles days after the event." How that cannot be construed as criticism -- that he should not only have been there, but been visible -- is beyond even me.

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Originally Posted by halifaxguy

Does anyone really think that MLSE will remove seats for the soccer team when standing behind the goal seems to be the place to be for fans?

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The standing area is ALREADY gone. Seats (benches, actually) are there now for Argo games; different seats are wheeled in for TFC games and sit over top of the turf so they can butt up against the goal line for soccer. The obvious solution is to use the Argo seats/benches (or new, more permanent ones) instead of the TFC seats for both sports.

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Originally Posted by gilthethrill

I let out a chuckle when after the game Matt Dunigan said something to the effect "Soccer players are not more important than football players"..

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Dunigan is right though, soccer is being prioritized given the current setup. Something has to give, especially when it rightfully is a player safety issue imo.Agree with other posters that it’s been known about for 2 years now but it is what it is, let’s just hope they solve it sooner than later so it’s no longer even a discussion topic.