#8 better be looking out for garbage bag.(WARNING)

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Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

This was the first bad game that Carroll has had. I also wouldn't blame him on that Stamps catch. The coverage couldn't have been better. Sometimes you just have to take your hat off to the opposition for a perfectly executed play which is what happened there.

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I agree Ravi - nice throw by Joseph and nice catch by Stamps. Similarly - hats off to both Sherritt and Alexander for their picks on Ray - it was hardly terrible throws by Ricky: the Sherritt INT was a classic & beauty LB underneath coverage pick (Tristan Black had one of those in his early Argo days of some playing time on D); and Alexander's was a disguised/smart play with the safety cheating down low that fooled Ricky.

The scapegoating stuff on here is reminding me of a lot of the other CFL (homer) fan sites - where they go into panic mode and want to blame individual player(s) after a couple of losses; yep - cut Ricky Ray and Carroll now and all will be well.

No one is panicking here, however there is no doubt how Ricky has not lived up anywhere close to his years.
And to me like most if not all of us here this should be a cause for concern.
Legitimate questions are being asked about his sub par play and together with the problems the offense is having.

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Originally Posted by argotom

No one is panicking here, however there is no doubt how Ricky has not lived up anywhere close to his years.
And to me like all of us here this is a cause for concern.

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I wonder tom where we would be with Jyles instead of Ray....worse, the same?? I can't see this team being better...I am panicking, albeit a slightly.

I said it when they were still in camp. You can't expect Ricky to do it all. He needs a lot of help. He's not a running qb so when the pressure comes he's usually screwed. Thus the O line issues. Our receiving core isn't up to much either. Growing pains all around.

I don't understand how Eric Tillman, the master of getting rid of high price QB's, with Jyles on his team has a better record and few of us can argue that the Esks are much better off.

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Originally Posted by OV Argo

I agree Ravi - nice throw by Joseph and nice catch by Stamps. Similarly - hats off to both Sherritt and Alexander for their picks on Ray - it was hardly terrible throws by Ricky: the Sherritt INT was a classic & beauty LB underneath coverage pick (Tristan Black had one of those in his early Argo days of some playing time on D); and Alexander's was a disguised/smart play with the safety cheating down low that fooled Ricky.

The scapegoating stuff on here is reminding me of a lot of the other CFL (homer) fan sites - where they go into panic mode and want to blame individual player(s) after a couple of losses; yep - cut Ricky Ray and Carroll now and all will be well.

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I agree with your post on slotting in ex-NFL'ers or guys who had a cup of coffee there does not necessarily mean you'll build a good CFL team...The league and the game is just not that bad, even though some 'NFL only' football fans think that...the ones that thought Ricky Williams would rush for 20 yds a carry..lol.

I never posted anything on Ricky Ray being cut however, sure he did not have a good game yesterday, but he still put a nice touch on that Inman TD pass, although Inman did a great job to beat his defender for the jump ball. I would not compare Ahmad Carroll's experience and accomplishments in the sport of football to Ricky Ray by any stretch of the imagination. Ray has won a Grey Cup, a couple and has been extremely valuable to all his teams since he stepped on a CFL field...for what it's worth, he also threw a ball in a NFL game, even if pre-season. Carroll on the other hand, has been dogged throughout his carear as a liability on pass coverage. I think this guy carved out a niche as a track speedster and pro teams were always willing to give the benefit of the doubt based on "athleticism" until they've seen enough.

Yah, track guys that have proper football instincts are great, but I'm not sure Carroll is that gifted in his instincts and his athletic ability to just walk on a field and scare offensive coaches in the way a superior athlete like Deion Sanders would. The Eskies did their homework on this guy's history and you can bet other teams will based on yesterday's video, film or DVD of the game. (Wonder what they use today...video file on computer or actual video like in the old days...haha)

Sanders would go for games without having guys throw toward his side and so would Byron Parker who was also a great athlete when he came to the Argos in '04.

NO doubt tilman has put together great d that carries that team. Qb's are just getting by. I can't see BC losing out to Edmonton.

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Originally Posted by gilthethrill

I wonder tom where we would be with Jyles instead of Ray....worse, the same?? I can't see this team being better...I am panicking, albeit a slightly.

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They would have lost the Calgary game in the home opener and would have probably lost the Winnipeg game too...maybe the Montreal game at Molson Stadium in late July. That would be 1-7, but do you really think the defense would have played as well as they did in Calgary last week had Ray not moved the ball to get all those field goals from the red zone....You could make a justifiable argument that the Argos with this exact team minus Ricky Ray and starting Stephen Jyles would be 0-8.

I know one thing for certain, Jarius Jackson would not have signed and said publicly that he was coming here to backup Stephen Jyles, so he probably would be the starter by now if you started the season with Jyles.

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Originally Posted by 1argoholic

NO doubt tilman has put together great d that carries that team. Qb's are just getting by. I can't see BC losing out to Edmonton.

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Who knows? Kerry Joseph looked terrific yesterday. Do you know how many times he faked me out in the stands with play action and pretending to hand off to Boyd or Charles...he was excellent and managed the game very well. He made a few big runs also.

I've always liked Kerry but we tried to kill his career as we did with Tracy Ham.

What is it with QB's that come to Toronto from other teams?

Folks, back away from the ledge...... Let's not go crazy here.

Joseph had one great season playing for Austin. The rest of his career has been ho-hum-and-yawn. Jyles is not going to set the world on fire either.

Ray is on pace for a solid season. He's hit a bump in the road. To be expected during the course of the season. Plus he needs help fom the Receivers and OL. For what he has to work with right now his career is not being tarnished. He is still the best QB the Argos have had since Flutie. Let's look at the whole of his work. Not just a brief synopsis of a couple of games.

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Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill

I never posted anything on Ricky Ray being cut however, sure he did not have a good game yesterday, but he still put a nice touch on that Inman TD pass, although Inman did a great job to beat his defender for the jump ball. I would not compare Ahmad Carroll's experience and accomplishments in the sport of football to Ricky Ray by any stretch of the imagination. Ray has won a Grey Cup, a couple and has been extremely valuable to all his teams since he stepped on a CFL field...for what it's worth, he also threw a ball in a NFL game, even if pre-season. Carroll on the other hand, has been dogged throughout his carear as a liability on pass coverage. I think this guy carved out a niche as a track speedster and pro teams were always willing to give the benefit of the doubt based on "athleticism" until they've seen enough.

Yah, track guys that have proper football instincts are great, but I'm not sure Carroll is that gifted in his instincts and his athletic ability to just walk on a field and scare offensive coaches in the way a superior athlete like Deion Sanders would. The Eskies did their homework on this guy's history and you can bet other teams will based on yesterday's video, film or DVD of the game. (Wonder what they use today...video file on computer or actual video like in the old days...haha)

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Carroll has had a great year up until a couple plays yesterday (read AngeloV's post for the best description) and you seem to think he's going to be the next Jason Shivers and start getting burned like overdue toast on a regular basis? I'm not sure what he did in the NFL in 2006 is too relative to today. Cutting him or benching him for one bad game makes about as much sense as benching Ray for playing like crap because his OLINE is awful.

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Originally Posted by Nob

Folks, back away from the ledge...... Let's not go crazy here.

Joseph had one great season playing for Austin. The rest of his career has been ho-hum-and-yawn. Jyles is not going to set the world on fire either.

Ray is on pace for a solid season. He's hit a bump in the road. To be expected during the course of the season. Plus he needs help fom the Receivers and OL. For what he has to work with right now his career is not being tarnished. He is still the best QB the Argos have had since Flutie. Let's look at the whole of his work. Not just a brief synopsis of a couple of games.

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Well said, Nob. Coming on here tonight, you think that we are 0-8 and going nowhere this season instead of being 4-4, in sole possession of second place, two points back of Montreal and with the best defence in the east (despite the poor game last night). Yes, there are problems but these kinds of growing pains were to be expected considering how bad the last four years in total have been.

It's just so friggin up and down it can drive a fan nuts. At least two of the next three games I just don't like our chances. Well judging by Rays games at the dome we could be in real tough for the next three.

This is getting suspiciously close to one of those "fire all the management, trade all the players!" threads you see on Leaf forums.

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Originally Posted by argolio

This is getting suspiciously close to one of those "fire all the management, trade all the players!" threads you see on Leaf forums.

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As long as they trade Phil Kessell, that's all I care :)

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Originally Posted by argolio

This is getting suspiciously close to one of those "fire all the management, trade all the players!" threads you see on Leaf forums.

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Or on riderfans.com.

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Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill

Who knows? Kerry Joseph looked terrific yesterday. Do you know how many times he faked me out in the stands with play action and pretending to hand off to Boyd or Charles...he was excellent and managed the game very well. He made a few big runs also.

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I may have been the sole defender of Joseph when he was here. He was IMO, a good QB in a bad situation.

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Originally Posted by AngeloV

I may have been the sole defender of Joseph when he was here. He was IMO, a good QB in a bad situation.

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Still though he was and still is well passed the best before date.

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Originally Posted by argotom

Still though he was and still is well passed the best before date.

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If he was well past it at that time, he wouldn't still be in the league.