August 14, 2015: Toronto Argonauts vs. Winnipeg Blue Bombers

Wobbler I agree with some how knowing that these guys will pull out a win. I don't know how, but to be 5-2 without your starting qb and with only one home game, that's crazy stuff. They still have plenty to work on and plenty of guys to get healthy.

As far as the game, tackle practice is needed. Joesy is just not good. Kack is so much fun to watch and I'm glad he didn't miss a beat.

Waters goes nowhere unless we lose him to the NFL. Although Pfeffer is a great athlete. I thought Pre was a good tackler but Pfeffer has run guys down to save return td's.

In my eyes Hamilton is still the team to beat in the east and Calgary in the west. Boy Hamilton just plays with such confidence and passion in their new joint. Would be sweet to see Ricky come back and pick them apart on Labour Day but that's just a dream at this point.

Pfeffer is a good interim replacement for Waters but there is no way he has shown enough to this point to beat out Waters. He is making 75% of his FG attempts -- Waters made 90% last season. Over a typical season like Waters had last season, that is EIGHT fewer FGs made, easily enough to cost a few games. Waters punted for 47.7 yards per kick last season; Pfeffer is at 43.9 this year. Again, those yards add up over a season and in specific games. And Waters has demonstrated an ability to hit the coffin corner -- remember last Labour Day? We definitely should keep Pfeffer around on IR or somewhere else, but if he replaces Waters next season it will either be because Waters' contract became unmanageable or he left as a free agent --not because he's an INT.

As for the idea that he always misses games due to injury, for the record he missed no games in 2012 and 2014, but he was on IR for 10 games in 2013.

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Originally Posted by Wobbler

I think some of you have forgotten how good Waters is. One more Canadian at a non-starting position isn't particularly important, but having the best possible kicker certainly is.

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Pfeffer did a nice job replacing Waters and may have the potential to get to Waters' level at some point in the future but Waters is still vastly superior right now. As Paul has mentioned, Pfeffer has been quite inconsistent which shouldn't be surprising with a rookie kicker. He will make a 50 yard FG one quarter and then miss from 42 the next quarter. He had a better game punting against Winnipeg but I thought that his previous couple of games were not good in that area. It will certainly be nice to have Waters back and hopefully the Argos can stash Pfeffer somewhere in the meantime where he can continue to develop.

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Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill

This guy should not be on the roster...if he's a national, people would think he's just taking up a spot and would never expect him to touch the ball. Coombs is a much better player and he's from the University of Manitoba, while Josey played at Missourri and put up decent numbers...shows you how overated US college ball is and that coaches are just more familiar with those schools rather than the Canadian schools. Was wondering what the hell were the coaches thinking when they gave him the ball backed up near the goal line and gave up the safety? Sure there may have been a missed block, but he just froze after getting that ball in the endzone.


Kackert was also evidence in showing how inneffective Josey was, but then I thought Kackert was great from day1 and was better than the back who was with the Argos when he first arrived. I guess great minds think alike in Milanovich and myself...lol
Leave it to Rod Black to sniff out all the ex-NFL players in the stands, but
why would you keep Josey around and would you think this way if he came out of Mac, Western, Laval or any other CIS school?..not saying you would necessarily but that most, including many coaches in the CFL would not. This guy has done nothing all year. His numbers are downright terrible. He has no acceleration making him too slow to get to the outside. He also doesn't have the strength to overpower and run through tackles, so that pretty much tells you the story on him and why I think he should be gone.
Agree with your analysis on Josey, heard him on Argo access talk about hoping to get another shot at the NFL, sorry but that's laughable based on his play up here. He's not quick enough to be a pro player, neither here nor in the NFL and reminds me of another overhyped guy from Missouri who thought he was just going to come up and play but is also too slow at his position. I know American players grow up dreaming of the big pay day playing in the NFL but this myopic view is what usually spells doom for a player who comes up here and forgets that he better concentrate on battling for a regular position in the CFL. When they forget that, and come up short in doing that, you can be sure that NFL coaches and GM's will not be willing to give him a serious look.

Pfeffer punting has been pretty good for the most part, so I would keep him on the roster even if Swayze gets back. Keep him on the PR at worse, but leg injuries such as was sustained by Waters might tempt me to keep both on the active roster. Can't believe people would discuss sitting Hazelton?? He's been the most consistent receiver and has the best hands. Sure he took that penalty but he sat out a few series to get the message. Whitaker and Kackert should be playing and the import that should be sitting, if not gone is Josey, next on the list to sit may be Vince Agnew although he covered OK last night and works on Special teams.

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It's almost laughable that Josey is on the roster and contiinues to rate some playing time - done nothing on returns and is useless as a RB = a classic example of an import player getting favored simply because of his birth certificate and position. Wether it is Kackert or whoever else as the starting import RB, there is ZERO roster need for a stiff like Josey - Coombs can play RB and Gillanders has been excellent on STs and made a couple of catches out of H-back - might have earned him at least some shot to show what he can do at his real position (tailback), but no; they could have also kept draft pick Dillon Campbell around over Josey, but clearly the gob thinking here is tailback is for imports.

And love to see Pfeffer kept around somehow, even after Waters returns; Pfeffer has been outstanding as a raw rookie thrust into the starting kicking gig after no TC work. Waters had a dual kicking season for the ages last year - superb at both jobs; but, it is very difficult for a dual kicker to continue to be outstanding at both jobs year after year in CFL history and it might be pointed out that Waters had a lousy FG percentage and was iffy just the year before his big season; he might also get an NFL call. Tough to maybe keep 2 good kickers on the roster but not impossible and Pfeffer would be working for dirt cheap now (though he might draw some other CFL interest if he was on the PR) - find a way to stash/keep this young guy.

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Originally Posted by OV Argo

It's almost laughable that Josey is on the roster and contiinues to rate some playing time - done nothing on returns and is useless as a RB = a classic example of an import player getting favored simply because of his birth certificate and position. Wether it is Kackert or whoever else as the starting import RB, there is ZERO roster need for a stiff like Josey - Coombs can play RB and Gillanders has been excellent on STs and made a couple of catches out of H-back - might have earned him at least some shot to show what he can do at his real position (tailback), but no; they could have also kept draft pick Dillon Campbell around over Josey, but clearly the gob thinking here is tailback is for imports.

And love to see Pfeffer kept around somehow, even after Waters returns; Pfeffer has been outstanding as a raw rookie thrust into the starting kicking gig after no TC work. Waters had a dual kicking season for the ages last year - superb at both jobs; but, it is very difficult for a dual kicker to continue to be outstanding at both jobs year after year in CFL history and it might be pointed out that Waters had a lousy FG percentage and was iffy just the year before his big season; he might also get an NFL call. Tough to maybe keep 2 good kickers on the roster but not impossible and Pfeffer would be working for dirt cheap now (though he might draw some other CFL interest if he was on the PR) - find a way to stash/keep this young guy.

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Haven't really considered the Waters NFL possibility but considering he is better than many kickers down there you are probably on to something OV, agreed have to keep this kid (Pfeffer) around whatever it takes.
I have been watching my PVR'd Argo games to look at Josey in particular and am starting to see what many are thinking, probably doesn't warrant keeping him around, could easily pickup a RB through free agency as good or better at pretty much anytime.
Not sure of the Curtis Steele injury timeline but having Whitaker, Kackert and Steele with the team is a pretty good option to have.

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Originally Posted by Argo57

I have been watching my PVR'd Argo games to look at Josey in particular and am starting to see what many are thinking, probably doesn't warrant keeping him around, could easily pickup a RB through free agency as good or better at pretty much anytime.
Not sure of the Curtis Steele injury timeline but having Whitaker, Kackert and Steele with the team is a pretty good option to have.

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It's great having Steele on the team, but he's not an "every-down" RB.
Kackert's health evidently cannot be relied upon.
Whitaker is a hyper-veteran.
Josie has yet to demonstrate that he has a future with the team, and he's certainly not an every-down RB.
The RB saga continues, as it would in any case.

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Originally Posted by Argo

It's great having Steele on the team, but he's not an "every-down" RB.
Kackert's health evidently cannot be relied upon.
Whitaker is a hyper-veteran.
Josie has yet to demonstrate that he has a future with the team, and he's certainly not an every-down RB.
The RB saga continues, as it would in any case.

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Could be running back by committee.

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Originally Posted by Argo57

Could be running back by committee.

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That may be the better way to go .... each has his strengths, so play the RB that is going to benefit from the opponents Defense.

Considering how infrequently we run the ball and how evenly we spread the passes, I think any of our guys could be an "every down back".

I have no idea why anyone would want to take Kackert off the field. Obviously we need to dress a backup, and that job should go to the versatile Steele when he's healthy. At that point Whitaker can stay on the IR and Josey can find another job.

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Originally Posted by Wobbler

Considering how infrequently we run the ball and how evenly we spread the passes, I think any of our guys could be an "every down back".

I have no idea why anyone would want to take Kackert off the field. Obviously we need to dress a backup, and that job should go to the versatile Steele when he's healthy. At that point Whitaker can stay on the IR and Josey can find another job.

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With all the blocking Argos ask of their backs, I wouldn't want to have an every down back. A tired back can easily turn into a big hit on the QB. I would prefer to alternate the 2 that dress every series.

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Originally Posted by AngeloV

With all the blocking Argos ask of their backs, I wouldn't want to have an every down back. A tired back can easily turn into a big hit on the QB. I would prefer to alternate the 2 that dress every series.

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And that is what I suspect that the Argos will do. They will either alternate on every series or have, as an example, Kackert play two series and then be spelled off by Steele or Whitaker on the third one.

Kackert, Coombs and Campbell is the combo I would love to see, but it'll probably end up being Kackert, Steele, Coombs.
IMO Josey can't run north - south between the tackles, actually he reminds me a lot of Chevon Walker (which isn't a good thing whatsoever).

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Originally Posted by AngeloV

With all the blocking Argos ask of their backs, I wouldn't want to have an every down back. A tired back can easily turn into a big hit on the QB. I would prefer to alternate the 2 that dress every series.

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I (meant to) use the term "every-down RB" to reference the type - not undersized, tough, multi-dimensional. You make a very good point: the Argonauts' system absolutely requires RB by committee of, say, two backs.