Where do Argos need to improve?

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12-05-2021, 10:47 PM
Will

Where do Argos need to improve?

QUARTERBACK -- I hate to come to this conclusion about MBT, he probably isn't as good as his strongest advocate advocates and he isn't as bad as his strongest detractor detracts. He is somewhere in between, which may not be good enough. QB play may have been poor in league, and the Argos need to improve here, but where do they look?

RUNNING BACK -- The tandem of White and Foster was good, but what's pretty clear is that Foster is not a #1 back and in fact may be better as a receiver. I don't know if White is a FA, but certainly we need a dynamic RB to get the most out of Foster.

RECEIVERS -- tons of injuries here, but did high profile signings Daniels and Collins really excel? Rogers was injured so he gets a pass. I think improve may be needed here.

OFFENSIVE LINE -- injuries were an issue here, but OL was inconsistent. Nicastro promising, but still unsure what we have with Richards.

DEFENSIVE LINE -- need run stuffer to complement Oakman. A healthy Shane Ray would be nice.

LINEBACKER -- I'm fairly happy with this group.

DEFENSIVE BACK -- Ideally, if they can go into 2022 with DB core of Collins, Peters, Decoud and Richardson (with depth as appropriate) I'd be happy.

SPECIALS -- Boris Bede essential
12-05-2021, 11:30 PM
Shatto

Will, I agree with most of your thoughts. Regarding receivers, IMO, the team needs a high quality player with exceptional speed. In every case today, when a receiver went deep, they were unable to gain separation. Worthy, provides speed but another break away receiver is needed to complement the very good possession receivers on the team.

Additionally, I am not overly impressed with the coaching of the D and Special Teams.
12-06-2021, 12:00 AM
OV Argo

LOTS of places !

QB - bring in some competition for TC; MBT is a vet who has his moments - both very good and very bad; think of drafting Waterloo QB Tre Ford - a real dual threat type (OK - not gonna happen with GOB thinkers)

RB - like to see Foster & Ouellette both back, but bring in some competition (and give Pellerin a real shot - (ok, again, not gonna happen)

Receivers - love to see all of the current group back and to stay healthy for a full season; and i sorta disagree with Shatto above that you need a real speed burner in the CFL - sure, be nice to have, audition a couple, but good hands and smart route running are much more important; Collins, Rogers, Brescacin, Daniels, Gittens can all get deep to haul passes in; like to see Llevi Noel back getting reps, and the Argos have young Canadian depth in Brissett, Nield, and maybe Sam Baker as a big target type

O-Line - major over-haul needed IMO to find better pass pro guys if you want to run standard pass heavy CFL offence (can't see a change there); Nicastro is a promising young guy; maybe that big OT from last draft shows up; and maybe draft another (good crop this draft); maybe Campbell bounces back at OT? Richards is weak at pass blocking IMO and other draft picks like Giffen, Churchill maybe don't have it if they couldn't rate real playing time; sign some new import OTs for lots of real TC competition

D-line - all these supposed great new additions - CFL vets like Hughes & Law + several former NFL resume guys did not add up to much at all - maybe Law & Ray could still put together a big CFL season but not so sure - audition a new big pass rush DE; Oakman was a real find at DT and so was rookie Acheampong; Robbie Smith is a solid DE with a motor. Last year's draft pick Luiji Vilain had a bunch of sacks at Wake Forest this season - hope he shows up and could maybe combine with Smith to have one DE a National spot. Like to see somebody other than Chris Jones run the D

LBs - talented group already with depth. Like to see somebody other than Chris Jones run the D

DBs - same as LBs; except find a natural, big-play, ballhawk safety - which real pro vet Butler is not IMO; (and a good crop for this draft); not sure about Hagerty as a future starter - didn't impress much - but maybe

Oh yeah, did I mention: like to see anybody other than Chris Jones (and his all over the map, playing games, schemes) run the D - could Glen Young return ?

STs - Bede is outstanding; audition a couple of returners - that's where a real burner might help
12-06-2021, 12:09 AM
ArgoRavi

We are going to need to be vaccinated for the forseeable future, OV, so unless Young decides to get vaccinated, his CFL coaching career may be over.
12-06-2021, 10:23 AM
Shatto

OV makes some very good comments. OK, we will agree to disagree on the need for one more exceptionally fast receiver but I strongly agree with OV's comments re the QB. I can't understand why teams won't dress an athletic Canadian QB, such as Ford. As a 3rd QB he would provide insurance in case of an injury to one of the other QB's and with his speed and athletic talent he could be an asset on special teams. And------perhaps given the opportunity, might well prove a Canadian QB can succeed in this league. With the type of myopic thinking of present CFL GM's and coaches a certain McMaster grad would never have been given a chance at QB

At the risk of repeating OV's plea---please replace Chis Jones!
12-06-2021, 01:37 PM
Argo57

QB: I like MBT who has had his ups and downs this season but overall had a pretty decent season, having said that the Argo need to start looking to the future at this position something that they have failed miserably at in recent times (Arbuckle and Franklin).
Pipkin is a good short yardage, change of pace player but I don’t see him as a future starting QB.

RB: Like DJ Foster a lot, good versatile player could use a more physically dominant back as a compliment to his skill set.

Receiver: Lots of good talent signed this off season (Rogers, Brescasin, Daniels) that were largely derailed due to injury.
Gittens was outstanding this season and Ricky Collins was also quite effective as well.
Will be interesting to see which of these players are retained heading into 2022.

O-Line: Many injuries for this group during the season but overall talent and depth need a substantial upgrade, Nicastro, Campbell and Richards all played reasonably well when healthy, far from an elite unit.

D-Line: Oakman was outstanding overall this season, Nevis never got healthy and I suspect won’t be back.
Shane Ray battled injuries for the majority of the season but was somewhat effective late in the season, overall a far cry from the unstoppable pass rushing machine he was billed as in training camp.
Corderro Law played quite well when he finally made it into the lineup but how long can he be counted on to play at that level?

LB: Muamba’s and McCoil were outstanding, Edwards also played well but needs to learn how to control his emotions.
Tons of depth with this group.

DB: Richardson, Collins, Peters and Decoud hopefully will all be back, hopefully some other brought in to compete at training camp.

Dinwiddie also had his ups and downs this season but this is all part of the process with a young HC, he should improve given time.
I suspect Chris Jones will move on (again), in truth the D played better early in the season with Young and Bell involved.
12-06-2021, 02:15 PM
cfl-cis fan

Coaching staff - Oline & O Coordinator gotta go
12-06-2021, 02:29 PM
paulwoods13

QB: I would (naturally) bring back MBT, but agree we need to develop someone with more potential than Pipkin has. I assume Masoli and Harris will be available but I would not pursue either guy. I would not completely rule out pursuing Reilly if he's available, despite his age, but he'd need to take a gigantic pay cut to be worth having. I'm far less enamoured of Bo and generally not interested in pursuing him. Maier is this year's Arbuckle -- a tantalizing young prospect who hasn't played enough to know what he can really become.

RB: Foster is an excellent changeup guy and good in a two-back set, but not an every-down back. White is aging. I really want to see what Scarlett can become, and was wishing he had dressed yesterday instead of Ouellette. I think we might have seen the last of Cross, unless he is content to be just a special teams guy. Pellerin has good potential and I'd like to see him used more in the backfield.

Rec: Obviously, keeping Gittens and Brissett (and ideally locking both guys up for a few years) is a priority. I also want Brescacin back; he showed tantalizing glimpses yesterday of being a deep threat. Noel is a great special teamer but at this point is probably not developing beyond that. As for the INTs, I don't think we should assume anyone will be back other than Jeanpiere and Anderson. Everyone else is likely heading into free agency, and we won't keep them all. I really like Rogers, but health is an issue. Daniels is pretty tight with Brescacin, so I could see him returning. Collins was decent but I would not get into any bidding wars for him. Probably time to get one of those two young guys into the lineup regularly -- Anderson showed he could get open deep when he played.

O-line: we need much greater depth, both INT and NAT. Hopefully Doxtator comes to camp and competes right way for a starting spot. Zamora gives us depth at centre behind Nicastro, assuming we manage to keep him. Blake and Bladek are warriors and good team guys, but I would not be upset to go younger in those spots. Giffen and Churchill should be better next year, hopefully one or both are ready to compete for a starting role.

D-line: I fear we will lose Oakman to the NFL (unless he is not eligible to play there?). Ray could get some CFL offers if he is a free agent. Must keep Smith and Acheampong, everyone else is pretty disposable IMO.

LB: Imperative to keep Muamba and the backup NATs Hoyte and Cassar. I'd love to see McCoil and Edwards back, but doubt we will have both and we might have neither next year. Judge did nothing this year to warrant his big pay package, so let him test the market.

DB: Three real finds in Collins, Decoud and Peters, all of whom must be retained if at all possible. I'd also bring back Richardson, let Richards go and look to upgrade Butler. Hagerty IMO has considerable potential to develop into a starter. Boateng is too small to be anything other than a backup. I wish we had not lost Woodson.

ST: Of course we need to re-sign Bede. I hope Reinhart is able to return, but if not, Latour is a good replacement. Love to upgrade at KR.

Coaches: Dinwiddie made some mistakes but shows potential to be a superb HC IMO. Need to look at upgrading our special teams coaching, and who knows what to think about defence, but I do think Stubler will not be back.
12-06-2021, 02:32 PM
AngeloV

Trying to objectively comment on something like this immediately following a loss is impossible. Too many emotional rather than rational thoughts going on here.

This team was 9-4 in regular season games that mattered. They went through a difficult emotional period when the defensive coordinator and DB coach were let go for reasons other than football related ones. The head coach made some rookie mistakes, but I expect him to grow into the roll and get better at it.

For me, I'm hoping they can bring back as much of this team as possible, with the biggest need being depth on the o-line and Canadian secondary depth (maybe Woodson decides to return next year, that would be huge).
I don't see Cam Judge returning, as he just got paid too much considering the role he played. My hope is that Muamba, Edwards and McCoil all return and would be nice to get Shorthill back.
D-Line really came together late in the season. Ealy looked great yesterday as did Ray. Another year in this league, and those guys will be even better.
Offence, I am good with all the receivers returning, although, I might let Collins walk, so you can move Gittens to slot and Worthy to the field wr spot. Brissett with an extra year adds good depth to this crew and hopefully a healthy returning Noel.
I really hope MBT is back as the starter. I know many on here disagree, but he's earned it. Would like to see Chad Kelly signed as a possible future starter if he develops.
RB. I said this earlier, but I would love to see them add a power back to go with Foster as a change of pace. With Foster's receiving ability you can actually have packages with both on the field. Oh how a Sean Millington type would be awesome, but they aren't easy to find.

All in all, this team was very good this season, and they just need a little tinkering to the depth IMO.
12-06-2021, 08:50 PM
primetime31

As disappointed as I am with yesterday's performance, the one thing to consider with the two Grey Cup finalists is how intact they have managed to keep their rosters since 2019. The Argos had almost an entire new team this season so to keep this thing going further, it will be important to bring back as many players as possible for 2022.

I agree that there needs to be new QB's brought in. I would definitely bring back MBT for continuity sake but the backups need to be upgraded. I'm not sure that going young is a bad thing as the training of young QB's seems to be better than ever before so there may not be the waiting period required.

As for Chris Jones, I can't see him returning as I see his exploring other opportunities such as Edmonton as perhaps even a return to the US. It will be interesting to see who the new DC would be. Could Glen Young have a possibility to return? I am hoping so based on the progress, IMO, that the defense was showing under his direction.
12-06-2021, 10:35 PM
Wobbler

The Argos looked like the third-ish best team in the league this year and that's a nice foundation to build upon.

This is a young group, too. Coleman (36), Woods (34), and Hughes (37) obviously won't be retained; among the serious contributors, only Blake (36) and Butler (34) are retirement candidates.

It shouldn't take much to make this team a stronger contender. Expensive guys like Judge and (to a lesser extent) Cross will either re-sign for less or move on, and the team's QB payroll is low. If I had my way, they'd sign an elite receiver and the best available O-lineman in free agency. Hopefully the rest of the league isn't much interested in improving in those areas. ;)
12-06-2021, 11:05 PM
OV Argo

Potential O-Line for next season:

I wonder if vet Blake will return and still be effective ? (i wouldn't count on it); young Nicastro could be a lock and maybe all-star type at C? Holdovers - Bladek, Richards, Giffen, Churchill - could 2 of them man the guard spots well ? Will Jamal Campbell bounce back healthy and improving to hold down an OT spot? Will last year's draft pick Sage Doxtator show up and be able to compete for a starting spot (OT or OG)? - he may draw some NFL interest? Also the remote possibility that former draft pick Ryan Hunter runs out of NFL opportunity (on the Chargers PR last i heard) and shows up - wether he could make an impact is a question though? Could also address O-Line via the draft again - some very good prospects coming up IMO. And if the decision is go with one (or two even) import O-Linemen, time to bring in some new talent for TC - the guys they used this year were not good enough IMO.

Like the possibility of an all Canadian O-Line, but that should not be pre-determined thinking.
12-07-2021, 08:15 AM
ArgoGabe22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wobbler

Cross will either re-sign for less or move on

I think he's done. He was listed as a back up for the EF and his involvement on offence has decreased significantly.
12-07-2021, 08:42 AM
paulwoods13

Quote:

Originally Posted by OV Argo

Also the remote possibility that former draft pick Ryan Hunter runs out of NFL opportunity (on the Chargers PR last i heard) and shows up - wether he could make an impact is a question though?

I'd say it's beyond remote. Under the current CBA, the most he can sign for is $65,000/year for two years. Can't see any way he agrees to that after making something like triple that amount for the past three years on NFL practice rosters.
12-07-2021, 11:21 AM
OV Argo

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulwoods13

I'd say it's beyond remote. Under the current CBA, the most he can sign for is $65,000/year for two years. Can't see any way he agrees to that after making something like triple that amount for the past three years on NFL practice rosters.

Perhaps, but there are plenty of Canadian players who have come home from lengthy NFL tours to play in the CFL; Stefan Charles with Ottawa this season is a recent example and he made way more than Hunter in the NFL since he actually played quite a bit. Some guys - maybe not a lot of them who got the NFL shot - might still have the desire to play football (and better chance to actually play than sitting on an NFL PR), and maybe some pride in playing in the pro league in their own country.
12-07-2021, 11:28 AM
AngeloV

Quote:

Originally Posted by paulwoods13

I'd say it's beyond remote. Under the current CBA, the most he can sign for is $65,000/year for two years. Can't see any way he agrees to that after making something like triple that amount for the past three years on NFL practice rosters.

Of course the CBA does expire in May. I'm sure the PA will push to have this amended.
12-07-2021, 11:30 AM
AngeloV

Quote:

Originally Posted by OV Argo

Potential O-Line for next season:

I wonder if vet Blake will return and still be effective ? (i wouldn't count on it); young Nicastro could be a lock and maybe all-star type at C? Holdovers - Bladek, Richards, Giffen, Churchill - could 2 of them man the guard spots well ? Will Jamal Campbell bounce back healthy and improving to hold down an OT spot? Will last year's draft pick Sage Doxtator show up and be able to compete for a starting spot (OT or OG)? - he may draw some NFL interest? Also the remote possibility that former draft pick Ryan Hunter runs out of NFL opportunity (on the Chargers PR last i heard) and shows up - wether he could make an impact is a question though? Could also address O-Line via the draft again - some very good prospects coming up IMO. And if the decision is go with one (or two even) import O-Linemen, time to bring in some new talent for TC - the guys they used this year were not good enough IMO.

Like the possibility of an all Canadian O-Line, but that should not be pre-determined thinking.

Bladek to me was all star caliber this year. When he was out, it really showed. I would like to see Bladek and Richards as the starters at G next year. I would also like to see them sign Blake to be the main back up o-lineman. Very valuable as he can play C, G and T. Perfect for a back up.
12-07-2021, 08:14 PM
Topshelf

Fans. How much more money will MLSE lose on this team? And there's noone left to take over in Toronto.
Sadly I think the days of the CFL landing a player that will sell tickets in this market are over.
Maybe the Argos should just go full budget. Play only guys willing to sign for the minimum.
They need a marketable face of the franchise. This generations Pinball or Flutie.
12-07-2021, 09:09 PM
OV Argo

Quote:

Originally Posted by AngeloV

Bladek to me was all star caliber this year. When he was out, it really showed. I would like to see Bladek and Richards as the starters at G next year. I would also like to see them sign Blake to be the main back up o-lineman. Very valuable as he can play C, G and T. Perfect for a back up.

Yeah - be real nice if Blake could return as an experienced vet who could play a back-up role, plus teach/lead the young guys.

Bladek might be just coming into his own as a top CFL O-Lineman, but like to see it in a full season.

Richards struggled lots in pass pro IMO; huge guy who might be a road grader in the run game, but this O is not going to lean on a ground game.

I think they should use the top draft pick on whoever they see grading out as the top interior guy - maybe get another young guy who can start right away like Nicastro; not sure there is another big priority in the draft - though it is a very good crop IMO at both safety and DE (get a guy who can team with Robbie Smith to have DE a National starter spot); and a stud, play-maker safety would be nice to find