Anyone Still Think MLSE ever had a business plan for the Argos?

https://3downnation.com/2022/06/05/m...ucture-of-cfl/

This is frustrating and disappointing. The off field decisions around our team have been underwhelming, and yet there is an expectation the league and the team should have appreciated in value through a two year pandemic.
MLSE should be the leading ownership group of the CFL. On the vanguard of creating value, building markets and taking the league into the future.

Instead they sit on their hands and watch other owners and leaders with vision do their heavy lifting...Amar Doman, Victor Cui, OSEG, Bob Young, and the strong community groups in Saskatchewan and Winnipeg.

They can see the potential in these other markets. MLSE are the wealthiest owners in the league by far, and are in majority owned by the largest media entities in Canada.

To quote Joe Biden....What are we doing?

Make Pinball President, give him a budget, and get out of the way. In 5 years you will have value.

It is very frustrating. Just shut up and stop devaluing your own product. I mean, did he really expect the valuation of a CFL team to get into the hundreds of millions?

That's the double-edged sword of MLSE ownership. The Argos will always be, at best, 3rd behind the Leafs and Raptors but can also count on consistent funding thanks to MLSE's stable ownership, something the Argos have not always had over the last 40 years.

Tanenbaum is also primarily a talking head for MLSE. Bell and Rogers hold the real power. If this is all just about franchise evaluation for them, then I'm not sure where this goes long-term.

There is no doubt, and there has never been any doubt, that MLSE is in the sports business for one primary purpose: to grow enterprise value. Operating profits (and losses) are of vastly lower importance. Its three other major league properties have all grown significantly in value over the duration of MLSE's ownership. The Argos have not. They likely could not be sold today even for the $5 million the team supposedly fetched in 1988 and 1991 (although we now know that both of those sales figures were essentially fictional).

A strong case can be made that in its five years of ownership, MLSE has done little (if anything) to attempt to grow the franchise value. And a strong case can also be made that ownership failures/neglect/stupidity over the preceding 35 years were also a massively important contributor to this awful state of affairs.

As to what could be done to reverse this situation, who the hell knows at this point? A dedicated Argo president with a mandate from MLSE to grow the Argos brand (and a budget to make that happen) certainly could not hurt, but there is no guarantee that even that would make a difference.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

There is no doubt, and there has never been any doubt, that MLSE is in the sports business for one primary purpose: to grow enterprise value. Operating profits (and losses) are of vastly lower importance. Its three other major league properties have all grown significantly in value over the duration of MLSE's ownership. The Argos have not. They likely could not be sold today even for the $5 million the team supposedly fetched in 1988 and 1991 (although we now know that both of those sales figures were essentially fictional).

A strong case can be made that in its five years of ownership, MLSE has done little (if anything) to attempt to grow the franchise value. And a strong case can also be made that ownership failures/neglect/stupidity over the preceding 35 years were also a massively important contributor to this awful state of affairs.

As to what could be done to reverse this situation, who the hell knows at this point? A dedicated Argo president with a mandate from MLSE to grow the Argos brand (and a budget to make that happen) certainly could not hurt, but there is no guarantee that even that would make a difference.

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As Mike & The Mechanics once sang: All the Argos need is a miracle!​

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

There is no doubt, and there has never been any doubt, that MLSE is in the sports business for one primary purpose: to grow enterprise value. Operating profits (and losses) are of vastly lower importance. Its three other major league properties have all grown significantly in value over the duration of MLSE's ownership. The Argos have not. They likely could not be sold today even for the $5 million the team supposedly fetched in 1988 and 1991 (although we now know that both of those sales figures were essentially fictional).

A strong case can be made that in its five years of ownership, MLSE has done little (if anything) to attempt to grow the franchise value. And a strong case can also be made that ownership failures/neglect/stupidity over the preceding 35 years were also a massively important contributor to this awful state of affairs.

As to what could be done to reverse this situation, who the hell knows at this point? A dedicated Argo president with a mandate from MLSE to grow the Argos brand (and a budget to make that happen) certainly could not hurt, but there is no guarantee that even that would make a difference.

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No guarantee. But we all want to see somebody try. It will be a damn shame if nobody tried and the team disappears and the hardcore Argo fans like us are left with what could have been. Because we've caught brief glimpses of fleeting success; 1991, 2004, 100th GC game in 2012, Eastern Final 2017 where we all thought if they can just keep the momentum up they will become relevant again. Rarely was there that perfect combination of on field success with strong visionary ownership, and that combination never lasted. When MLSE bought them I thought finally an owner with staying power and a sports media juggernaut. They're in for the long haul and they will rebuild a fanbase for this historical franchise. Because there is so much that needs to be installed; community connections, minor football connections, educational connections beyond the team itself year to year.
MLSE seem to relied upon an old model. Build a winner and people will come. That works for teams that still have profile and coverage-Blue Jay's, Raptors, Leafs. It does not work for the Argos otherwise Doug Flutie would have sold out SkyDome every game. It takes more than that initially to rebuild your base and relevance. Look at last year. First place team. The media and city got behind them for the East Final-One game and then a long off-season out of sight and out of mind again. The leadership of this team need to engage this marketplace 12 months a year and overtime in season for 5-10 years to rebuild. That requires passion and commitment.
The price tag for an NFL team and stadium is now likely $7 Billion combined. They only take individual owners. A team in Toronto will put the CFL in jeopardy. It's not happening anytime soon.
MLSE and Larry Tannenbaum you have 5-10 years. What you need in terms of finances to make this work is what you spend on a couple of players on your hockey or basketball team. Give it a shot. You have a chance to build something special in Toronto and in Canada. Don't quit. And you have a guy in Michael Clemons who embodies everything you want the Argos and the CFL to be. Let him be the face of this team's rebirth. He is a champion in everything he does: a player, a coach, a father, a businessman and most importantly a person. Let him be one as a President.

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Originally Posted by Scooter McCray

No guarantee. But we all want to see somebody try. It will be a damn shame if nobody tried and the team disappears and the hardcore Argo fans like us are left with what could have been. Because we've caught brief glimpses of fleeting success; 1991, 2004, 100th GC game in 2012, Eastern Final 2017 where we all thought if they can just keep the momentum up they will become relevant again. Rarely was there that perfect combination of on field success with strong visionary ownership, and that combination never lasted. When MLSE bought them I thought finally an owner with staying power and a sports media juggernaut. They're in for the long haul and they will rebuild a fanbase for this historical franchise. Because there is so much that needs to be installed; community connections, minor football connections, educational connections beyond the team itself year to year.
MLSE seem to relied upon an old model. Build a winner and people will come. That works for teams that still have profile and coverage-Blue Jay's, Raptors, Leafs. It does not work for the Argos otherwise Doug Flutie would have sold out SkyDome every game. It takes more than that initially to rebuild your base and relevance. Look at last year. First place team. The media and city got behind them for the East Final-One game and then a long off-season out of sight and out of mind again. The leadership of this team need to engage this marketplace 12 months a year and overtime in season for 5-10 years to rebuild. That requires passion and commitment.
The price tag for an NFL team and stadium is now likely $7 Billion combined. They only take individual owners. A team in Toronto will put the CFL in jeopardy. It's not happening anytime soon.
MLSE and Larry Tannenbaum you have 5-10 years. What you need in terms of finances to make this work is what you spend on a couple of players on your hockey or basketball team. Give it a shot. You have a chance to build something special in Toronto and in Canada. Don't quit. And you have a guy in Michael Clemons who embodies everything you want the Argos and the CFL to be. Let him be the face of this team's rebirth. He is a champion in everything he does: a player, a coach, a father, a businessman and most importantly a person. Let him be one as a President.

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Nice post, well thought out and summarized.
The spikes in interest over the years have coincided with the team having success and therefore playing in important games, unfortunately the quality of the product on field has largely sucked following successful seasons which has killed any momentum moving forward.
At this point the survival of this franchise is no sure thing, if MLSE pulls the plug I wonder if there would be any interested buyers willing to take on a long and arduous rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Argo57

At this point the survival of this franchise is no sure thing, if MLSE pulls the plug I wonder if there would be any interested buyers willing to take on a long and arduous rebuild.

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There would be interest.The bad part is you would still be dealing with Bell for the next four years.

Argos are treated like a tax write off by the owners so it's not fair for the team to be criticized for lack of value.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

There is no doubt, and there has never been any doubt, that MLSE is in the sports business for one primary purpose: to grow enterprise value. Operating profits (and losses) are of vastly lower importance. Its three other major league properties have all grown significantly in value over the duration of MLSE's ownership. The Argos have not. They likely could not be sold today even for the $5 million the team supposedly fetched in 1988 and 1991 (although we now know that both of those sales figures were essentially fictional).

A strong case can be made that in its five years of ownership, MLSE has done little (if anything) to attempt to grow the franchise value. And a strong case can also be made that ownership failures/neglect/stupidity over the preceding 35 years were also a massively important contributor to this awful state of affairs.

As to what could be done to reverse this situation, who the hell knows at this point? A dedicated Argo president with a mandate from MLSE to grow the Argos brand (and a budget to make that happen) certainly could not hurt, but there is no guarantee that even that would make a difference.

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Can MLSE at least try and put in equal effort to what they put into Toronto FC? Is that asking too much?

The lack of vision from Tanenbaum and friends has been immensely disappointing, especially when you see the likes of Doman, Cui and Young working their tails off and either expecting success or, in the case of Young, having success.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

As to what could be done to reverse this situation, who the hell knows at this point?

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Well I think we're all agreed that 5+ seasons of continued excellence -- something this team has never done before in its history -- would at least move the needle a little bit. We're already through season 1!

But as for long-term solutions, Tannenbaum pretty much spelled it out in that article, and I think he's right on. The CFL needs to be totally restructured in order to survive. The community-owned teams need to have a stake in the success of Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal. Although Larry can't say it in public, surely he believes the CFL should be structured like MLS, where all player contracts are with the League and all revenues are shared.

This would bring the return of the Marquee Player, IMO the only way the CFL survives going forward. Look, the TFC was invisible in this town until the day Beckham came to town as an opponent. They took off from there. Big names draw interest in Toronto. Period. Just imagine Russell Wilson coming to finish off his career with the Argonauts, Derek Carr in BC and Jared Goff trying to rekindle his career in Montreal. There'd be sellouts across the League, including at BMO.

And if anyone wants to argue that Flutie didn't draw any interest in 96-97, think about how different things are today in terms of media exposure and social media. It's a different world.

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Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

Can MLSE at least try and put in equal effort to what they put into Toronto FC? Is that asking too much?

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It's not just effort that has been put into TFC, it's money. And based on franchise value, there has been a return (at least on paper) on that investment. Would there be a similar return on a similar investment in the Argos? My sense is that MLSE has concluded that there would not be, in a nine-team league operating only in Canada and with virtually no real revenue growth potential as it is currently constituted. Yes, we would all love to see MLSE really try, and spend accordingly, for 5-10 years to rebuild. It might work. But given that the brand has been abused and made slowly irrelevant over the past 40 years, it also might not work. And if you're the head of MLSE, why would you take that chance?

Ever since we cancelled our seasons, the Argos have called us a total of ZERO times about this upcoming season.

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Originally Posted by ArgoGabe22

Ever since we cancelled our seasons, the Argos have called us a total of ZERO times about this upcoming season.

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That is brutal.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

It's not just effort that has been put into TFC, it's money. And based on franchise value, there has been a return (at least on paper) on that investment. Would there be a similar return on a similar investment in the Argos? My sense is that MLSE has concluded that there would not be, in a nine-team league operating only in Canada and with virtually no real revenue growth potential as it is currently constituted. Yes, we would all love to see MLSE really try, and spend accordingly, for 5-10 years to rebuild. It might work. But given that the brand has been abused and made slowly irrelevant over the past 40 years, it also might not work. And if you're the head of MLSE, why would you take that chance?

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I will ask again. Did MLSE really think the CFL would possibly be able to have a franchise valuation in the hundreds of millions?

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

It's not just effort that has been put into TFC, it's money. And based on franchise value, there has been a return (at least on paper) on that investment. Would there be a similar return on a similar investment in the Argos? My sense is that MLSE has concluded that there would not be, in a nine-team league operating only in Canada and with virtually no real revenue growth potential as it is currently constituted. Yes, we would all love to see MLSE really try, and spend accordingly, for 5-10 years to rebuild. It might work. But given that the brand has been abused and made slowly irrelevant over the past 40 years, it also might not work. And if you're the head of MLSE, why would you take that chance?

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So what is their rationale for owning the Argos? Small tax write off, philanthropy (keep Argos off deathbed), keep CFL alive for TSN?
If they are committed to the losses to do that they could commit a little more to trying to create value.
If not they should try and find another Amar Doman, Bob Young to sell to. A dedicated President with a dedicated budget (drop in the bucket to them), and they can just watch what happens with very little risk. Value would come. An entire 10 team league firing on all cylinders should be worth $100 million.

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Originally Posted by AngeloV

I will ask again. Did MLSE really think the CFL would possibly be able to have a franchise valuation in the hundreds of millions?

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I'm sure they did not. But they might have thought the value could go above whatever they paid for it.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

I'm sure they did not. But they might have thought the value could go above whatever they paid for it.

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Yeah, they must have thought their brand alone would do it and zero effort would be needed.

How to summarize?
First, I am not sure what Mr. T is saying is incorrect.
Let's face it the return on investment does apply.
So what do we have, a 9 time league becoming very stale that continuously spins its wheels and for every one step potentially forward it takes two back.
Yes the franchise values and overall league does matter......it is not a charity.
Halifax, what the heck happened here with the initial excitement and potential progress is either on hold or died a slow death.
The XFL no matter what you think was also extinguished and we were really never told why or the exact details of the possible merger that may have brought in millions and increased franchise values.
Heck even the lowly NLL is increasing in size every year.
As much as all of us here are die hards, that will not cut it with the next generation.
It is way overdue to think outside the box like the XFL presumably had the potential and so did a new team in Halifax.
With streaming services and the new age, will TSN continue in the mega millions contract with the league.
Unlike previously, I am no longer bullish about the Argos or this mom and pop league.

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Originally Posted by argotom

How to summarize?
First, I am not sure what Mr. T is saying is incorrect.
Let's face it the return on investment does apply.
So what do we have, a 9 time league becoming very stale that continuously spins its wheels and for every one step potentially forward it takes two back.
Yes the franchise values and overall league does matter......it is not a charity.
Halifax, what the heck happened here with the initial excitement and potential progress is either on hold or died a slow death.
The XFL no matter what you think was also extinguished and we were really never told why or the exact details of the possible merger that may have brought in millions and increased franchise values.
Heck even the lowly NLL is increasing in size every year.
As much as all of us here are die hards, that will not cut it with the next generation.
It is way overdue to think outside the box like the XFL presumably had the potential and so did a new team in Halifax.
With streaming services and the new age, will TSN continue in the mega millions contract with the league.
Unlike previously, I am no longer bullish about the Argos or this mom and pop league.

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A lot of truth here.