July 26, 2014: Toronto Argonauts vs. Saskatchewan Roughriders

IMO, football more than any other sport relies on continuity, chemistry, and cohesion among its players. It is difficult to evaluate Barker's recruits, especially on offence, when they have all been thrown into the fire at once. Guys like Coombs, Adams, Sinkfield, Fayson, Johnson, and Slaton may be excellent players but to throw them out there all at once as starters in a system that is new to most of them (Adams being somewhat of an exception) is putting them and the rest of the offence in a difficult situation. It would be one thing if the Argos only had to put one or two of them into the offence in spot duty but they are having to start and play a significant amount of time.

I have seen many times on here over the last couple of years much praise for Barker and Milanovich for what they have done with this team. The Argos won the Grey Cup - convincingly in the title game I might add - less than two years ago and were within one half of making it back last year. Yes, they are off to a slow start and, yes, injuries are not the only reason but I am willing to be patient and see if they can work themselves out of this. I really doubt that Barker and Milanovich suddenly became idiots overnight. Maybe we would all be wise to think back to the '08 and '09 seasons and recall a time at which the football operations were truly dysfunctional. Compare that to today and I think that you will see a huge difference.

Don't the Argos have the most 1st year CFL players on their roster? How does that saying go about rookies costing teams wins? I was both happy but yet a little concerned so many of our draft picks made the opening day roster. Add in the fact we have several 1st year Americans especially on Defense along with the crazy amount of injuries to our receivers, it should not be too be of a surprise we are where we are at this point.

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Originally Posted by ArgoFan1

Not that amazing, when most of the Argo plays were 1 yard passes !! Ricky Ray can hit 100% of his passes every game, but if he isn't going up the field, what is the point??

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You don't pass the ball 47 times, and run off 63 offensive plays, without piling up a fair amount of yardage and first downs. For the record (excluding losses from sacks), the Argos accumulated 371 total yards for an average gain of 5.9 per play. The Riders accumulated 306 yards for an average gain of 7.5 yards per play. Passing-wise, the Argos averaged 6.4 yards per pass and 9.7 yards per completion; the Riders averaged 8.2 yards per pass and 17.2 yards per completion. The Riders made more big plays, benefited tremendously from Argo turnovers and scored in the red zone. The Argos failed to make large gains on most plays, and when they did, the drives stalled.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

I do wonder, though, how much the uncertainty swirling around the team (attendance, ownership, Braley, MLSE, etc.) is affecting the coaches.

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Well, it can't be helping. I'd like to believe that day-to-day coach-player interactions aren't affected by front office chaos, but I'm probably being naïve. On the other hand, the new clarity regarding proper practice facilities must be a significant relief for everyone involved - so maybe it's a wash.

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Originally Posted by gilthethrill

Don't the Argos have the most 1st year CFL players on their roster? How does that saying go about rookies costing teams wins? I was both happy but yet a little concerned so many of our draft picks made the opening day roster. Add in the fact we have several 1st year Americans especially on Defense along with the crazy amount of injuries to our receivers, it should not be too be of a surprise we are where we are at this point.

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This is why I have been perplexed by some criticism I have read on here of Barker's decision to bring Maurice Mann back. Some have said that this is a sign of poor recruiting when I think that it is simply a sign that the Argos desperately needed someone who knows the offensive system well and has chemistry with Ricky Ray.

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Originally Posted by ArgoFan1

Not that amazing, when most of the Argo plays were 1 yard passes !! Ricky Ray can hit 100% of his passes every game, but if he isn't going up the field, what is the point??

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Exactly.
I am starting to wonder Ricky's ability or inability any longer to stretch the D as I can't remember if there were any throws mid range and the long attempts down field.
Whether it's the play calling or the line scheme not allowing RR time in the pocket, to me this has been the single biggest disappointment this season.
Dink and dunk mentality will not do it and it is a losing philosophy as the defenses have figured this out a long time ago.

I'm not very impressed with our new D-Line yet. No one has stood out and I don't expect anyone to do so soon. Maybe Montreal will be a breakout game.

Durant didn't even play that well and had a lot of 3 and outs, it's just our offence couldn't get anything done afterwards and the turnovers early cost us big. There were chances where the momentum could have swung the Argos way and we could have been back in it 14-13 but sending out Waters each drive was frustrating to watch. As for Ricky, there were times he had no time and was rushed or got sacked. Obviously the chemistry he has with Owens and Barnes is a much bigger loss than expected.

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Originally Posted by argotom

Exactly.
I am starting to wonder Ricky's ability or inability any longer to stretch the D as I can't remember if there were any throws mid range and the long attempts down field.
Whether it's the play calling or the line scheme not allowing RR time in the pocket, to me this has been the single biggest disappointment this season.
Dink and dunk mentality will not do it and it is a losing philosophy as the defenses have figured this out a long time ago.

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OMG, the sky is falling again.

You do realize that it takes time for a deep route to open up, correct? Ray throws the ball based on where his reads take him. If (and this will happen with new receivers) the receiver is not reading the open area quickly enough, he has to go to another receiver and hopes he makes a play. Nobody here was complaining when the timing on the short routes with Owens and Durie was perfect, allowing them the time to catch the ball in open space and run after the catch. Or how well Barnes finds the openings over the middle on a safety rotation.

Contrary to what many believe, that is not just the receiver making the QB stats look good. Timing has to be perfect all around, or no play will succeed.

Interesting turn of events this year ..... Instead of Ray being out for 6 games, it's the receiving core being replaced with the back ups. Seems much easier to replace Ray with Collaros last year than replacing most of the receivers this year...not to say anything about determining which of the 3 RBs work the best.
I'm thinking for the offense, the next couple of games will show improvement of the group around Ricky. They talent is just there, and time should improve the chemistry.

As for the D, I hope the same can be said about them ..... That the chemistry will improve. The only question is, how much time will it take?

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Originally Posted by AngeloV

OMG, the sky is falling again.

.........

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Milanovich says .... DONT PANIC! .......http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...medium=twitter

I thought this Argo O was going to be very productive this season: based on Ray's amazing passing a lot of last year + what seemed like a talented / deep O-Line + receiving talent (loss of Inman, but still Owens, Durie, Barnes, Chiles, Bradwell, Watt) and OK at RB too (big loss in Kackert but Slaton, Johnson, Steele, plus rookie Coombs) = shoulda been a big strength of the team IMO... instead: Ray looking ordinary, O-Line iffy, big injury problems at receiver, and not enough ground game (all the above mentioned RBs are capable IMO - but they need way more carries/work) = not working so great at all and a problem that needs to be solved. Fixable ? - maybe not in the short term till Owens & Durie return, but why so much dependence on 2 guys and a dink & dunk passing game? Smart coaches know how to game plan with their available personnel plus to show diversity on offence, Millanovich & Brady looking not so sharp thus far, IMO.

And on D - i had hoped vet DC Burke could mold a good unit, even with so little experience; Emry seemed like a good vet addition, but the lack of CFL experience was a big concern to me; Barker & co. might like to believe you can just plug in a bunch of mostly new import "talent" , but IMO they are sadly mistaken about experience and some cohesion and vet smarts on D. I like Gabriel as safety, plus Okpalongo at DE and Laing is solid at DT, and ex-NFLer Molden looked like a CFL star in the making; but after that ... a lot of average to weak play - poor tackling and not enough D play-making; Emry and Horton have been disappointing = not sure if this D is fixable this season.

Not looking good, but the season is still young and I don't see any real powerhouse CFL team this season = some sort of consolation there i guess. Argos should still easily be able to take 1st in the East; the next game against an Als team with zip-o at QB should be a big indicator.

Guess what???...

The Argo's are TIED for FIRST place in the East, with 14 games left.....

This team isn't BROKEN, its just injured, and its still better than MTL, Ottawa, and Hamilton

We've lost one more game then the rest. So we are in last really.

A few points:

1) Milanovich seems to consistently struggle with controlling penalties. This has been a problem since his inception as a coach in 2012. I'm not sure of the solution...
2) A higher percentage of running plays need to be integrated into the offense, especially at the beginning of games. With the top 3-4 receivers missing, the run game is even more important, giving time for the new receivers to learn the offense.
3) The O-line really seems to be struggling this year. Perhaps its due to the lack of a run game.
4) A handful of posters on here are consistently critical of Ricky Ray, even when it's not his fault. Without naming names or directly addressing these individuals, I think they need to consider that he doesn't exactly have a lot to work with. The fact that he consistently posts reasonable to strong statistical numbers tells me that the problem lies elsewhere, namely in the lack of first-string receivers and the poor protection that he receives.
5) Strong teams can overcome injuries. I think the problem or problems with this team lies elsewhere.
6) Not sure why Barker consistently revamps the entire defensive unit year after year.

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Originally Posted by MEEZY

A few points:

1) Milanovich seems to consistently struggle with controlling penalties. This has been a problem since his inception as a coach in 2012. I'm not sure of the solution...
2) A higher percentage of running plays need to be integrated into the offense, especially at the beginning of games. With the top 3-4 receivers missing, the run game is even more important, giving time for the new receivers to learn the offense.
3) The O-line really seems to be struggling this year. Perhaps its due to the lack of a run game.
4) A handful of posters on here are consistently critical of Ricky Ray, even when it's not his fault. Without naming names or directly addressing these individuals, I think they need to consider that he doesn't exactly have a lot to work with. The fact that he consistently posts reasonable to strong statistical numbers tells me that the problem lies elsewhere, namely in the lack of first-string receivers and the poor protection that he receives.
5) Strong teams can overcome injuries. I think the problem or problems with this team lies elsewhere.
6) Not sure why Barker consistently revamps the entire defensive unit year after year.

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Without naming names, points 4 and 5 directly contradict each other.

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Originally Posted by Rich

Without naming names, points 4 and 5 directly contradict each other.

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Not really. I was listing all of the problems facing the team this year. My point for #5 was that while injuries represent a major obstacle, there are other factors impeding the team. Ray isn't one of those factors, but some people on this forum, yourself among them as you aptly recognized, likes to lay the blame in the direction that it least deserves. If you read the rest of the points, you will see them all clearly explained.

I think people on here don't look at each game as its' own entity and view the carears work of a player. I understand that kind of blindness to some extent but in sports, it's always what have you done for me lately.

Ricky Ray has had a fine carear, but he has not displayed the leadership to support the young and inexperienced players on this team and deserves some blame...not all but some. He should definitely not go unscathed when he ridiculously throws an interception on his first pass and has more interceptions this year than all of last season already....Yes, I know, the receivers are hurt and their playing novices there.

If that's the case then as a veteran QB, he should go up to his idiot coach (he's probably paid more) and tell him...we can't stretch the D today because we have not had enough reps with these guys in practice...Run the friggin ball. Yet he still tries to force passes to his inexperienced receivers against one of the toughest Defenses in the league especially at Mosaic and wonders why it's not working.

The Ticats also started 2 rookie O-lineman, including a LT I believe, with Dan Lefeveur at QB and they did better...why?...because Austin has a vision and has not just built a team around 2-3 players using the same 5 plays if even. He's put package schemes together to suit the skills of the players on the team playing on that specific day. He does not do what the Argo staff does...try to stick a round peg in a square hole by having players play out of position and build a game plan that does not suit their strengths.

The Argos are nowhere near the team the Ticats are...sure they started 0-3, but you could objectively notice, based on 2 of those 3 losses in Edmonton and Calgary, and with their first win that they are about to go on a roll and will win this division quite easily...possibly with 11 wins. Remember they started 1-4 last season also. Yet, people on here are buying Milanovich's Kool-Aid, sure the Argos are a half game behind Hamilton, but in reality, when you look at how both teams have played, Hamilton has been a lot more competitive and are getting better...the Argos are not...they've continued where they'd left off in the 2nd half of that Eastern Final last year with poor tackling, an incapability of stopping the run, with no answers on offence (no scoring) and poor play calling and coaching decisions. (Remember the penalty the Argos took that gave the Cats another 2nd down and long when they would have punted had they declined, we've seen more of that stupidity this year with the play calling)

Argoholic said it earlier and I posted it last week after the Redblacks game, the Argos are the worst team in the league right now...Between the Argos offence and Montreal's offence I figure 14 pts may be enough to win on Friday. (unless the defenses make this a high scoring game by returning INT's, which is a possibility)

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Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill

I think people on here don't look at each game as its' own entity and view the carears work of a player. I understand that kind of blindness to some extent but in sports, it's always what have you done for me lately.

Ricky Ray has had a fine carear, but he has not displayed the leadership to support the young and inexperienced players on this team and deserves some blame...not all but some. He should definitely not go unscathed when he ridiculously throws an interception on his first pass and has more interceptions this year than all of last season already....Yes, I know, the receivers are hurt and their playing novices there.

If that's the case then as a veteran QB, he should go up to his idiot coach (he's probably paid more) and tell him...we can't stretch the D today because we have not had enough reps with these guys in practice...Run the friggin ball. Yet he still tries to force passes to his inexperienced receivers against one of the toughest Defenses in the league especially at Mosaic and wonders why it's not working.

The Ticats also started 2 rookie O-lineman, including a LT I believe, with Dan Lefeveur at QB and they did better...why?...because Austin has a vision and has not just built a team around 2-3 players using the same 5 plays if even. He's put package schemes together to suit the skills of the players on the team playing on that specific day. He does not do what the Argo staff does...try to stick a round peg in a square hole by having players play out of position and build a game plan that does not suit their strengths.

The Argos are nowhere near the team the Ticats are...sure they started 0-3, but you could objectively notice, based on 2 of those 3 losses in Edmonton and Calgary, and with their first win that they are about to go on a roll and will win this division quite easily...possibly with 11 wins. Remember they started 1-4 last season also. Yet, people on here are buying Milanovich's Kool-Aid, sure the Argos are a half game behind Hamilton, but in reality, when you look at how both teams have played, Hamilton has been a lot more competitive and are getting better...the Argos are not...they've continued where they'd left off in the 2nd half of that Eastern Final last year with poor tackling, an incapability of stopping the run, with no answers on offence (no scoring) and poor play calling and coaching decisions. (Remember the penalty the Argos took that gave the Cats another 2nd down and long when they would have punted had they declined, we've seen more of that stupidity this year with the play calling)

Argoholic said it earlier and I posted it last week after the Redblacks game, the Argos are the worst team in the league right now...Between the Argos offence and Montreal's offence I figure 14 pts may be enough to win on Friday. (unless the defenses make this a high scoring game by returning INT's, which is a possibility)

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WOW Gill - you really think the Ticats are a good team who will the win the East easily ? Sorry, can't agree: they ain't that good: inexperience at QB (though I like LeFevour and feel he may be better than Collaros (who could still come back strong this season); iffy & inexperienced O-Line (return of vet Dyakowski should help later in the season though); average at RB (Gable is big-time over-rated IMO - has some moves & skills but not a solid between the tackles RB - and they have zero faith in a run game anyways); and a sub-par receiving corps (Fantuz the only thing close to a #1 type CFL receiver there). And I don't think much of Austin as a smart game-planning coach - he's more like same old basic 5 pack offence and he does not have the personnel to run that successfully - they are not putting up points this season without Hank.

And on D - I like some of their talent (especially some solid NI D players), but they aren't exactly a veteran, tough unit.

The East is going to be real weak this year IMO (maybe because the Argos are looking so lousy) - and I wouldn't count any team there out for 1st yet - even expansion Ottawa or the QB-less Als. No way, IMO, Ticats cruise to 1st - they just had trouble beating the expansion RedBlacks.