David Braley's CFL Legacy?

There is talk of David Braley relinquishing ownership of the BC Lions. What will be his legacy?

On the positive side, he stepped in and propped up three franchises - Hamilton, BC and Toronto.

On the negative side, it seems that his league support has come at a serious cost. Demanding 4 Grey Cups in the six years.

The 104th Grey Cup in Toronto was most certainly part of the price of the deal to pry ownership of the team from David Braley. The subsequent challenges facing the Argos hosting the Grey Cup in this most important transition year could soon turn out to be a real embarrassment to the league. The Argos still haven't decided whether the team's target market is the business community or the average football fan. Mispricing the GC alienated fans without attracting business. I heard that the Argos season revenues were up, but football is being played in a largely empty stadium and without revenues from corporate boxes. There is talk that 10,000 seats are still available for the GC in seven days. It will be a hard week in the Toronto media for the Argos.

What will be David Braley's legacy? He is already in the CFL Hall of Fame. Will he go down in history as the reason for the longterm success of the CFL, or will he be remembered for demanding too high a price for his and irreparably damaging the CFL in the league's most important market?

Braley will be remembered as a great saviour of teams over the short-term but as somebody with no long-term vision.

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Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

Braley will be remembered as a great saviour of teams over the short-term but as somebody with no long-term vision.

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Sounds about right.

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Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

Braley will be remembered as a great saviour of teams over the short-term but as somebody with no long-term vision.

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He can't be blind to a long-term vision and accumulate $2 billion in net worth?

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Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup

There is talk of David Braley relinquishing ownership of the BC Lions. What will be his legacy?

On the positive side, he stepped in and propped up three franchises - Hamilton, BC and Toronto.

On the negative side, it seems that his league support has come at a serious cost. Demanding 4 Grey Cups in the six years.

The 104th Grey Cup in Toronto was most certainly part of the price of the deal to pry ownership of the team from David Braley. The subsequent challenges facing the Argos hosting the Grey Cup in this most important transition year could soon turn out to be a real embarrassment to the league. The Argos still haven't decided whether the team's target market is the business community or the average football fan. Mispricing the GC alienated fans without attracting business. I heard that the Argos season revenues were up, but football is being played in a largely empty stadium and without revenues from corporate boxes. There is talk that 10,000 seats are still available for the GC in seven days. It will be a hard week in the Toronto media for the Argos.

What will be David Braley's legacy? He is already in the CFL Hall of Fame. Will he go down in history as the reason for the longterm success of the CFL, or will he be remembered for demanding too high a price for his and irreparably damaging the CFL in the league's most important market?

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Without him, there is a possibility that the CFL would have been archived as a "former Canadian Pro Sports League" in the history books.

Looked at Grey Cup ticket availability and there are not 10,000 seats remaining. It's not sold out, but it looks easily 80-90% sold out. When you consider how late they started selling tickets, it's not awful despite the overpricing of tickets. I just don't like the misleading advertising about tickets starting at $89. There were never any $89 tickets available and if there were, you could bet surcharges and taxes put it over a $100 a ticket. I don't have a problem with the cheapest ticket being a $100, but don't mislead fans...it's a turnoff, at least it is for me.

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Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup

He can't be blind to a long-term vision and accumulate $2 billion in net worth?

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Plenty of successful, rich guys have purchased sports teams and not had the same success.

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Originally Posted by 1971GreyCup

What will be David Braley's legacy? He is already in the CFL Hall of Fame. Will he go down in history as the reason for the longterm success of the CFL, or will he be remembered for demanding too high a price for his and irreparably damaging the CFL in the league's most important market?

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He'll go down as one of the main reasons we're even watching the CFL right now.

And since we don't really know how much he sold the team in Toronto for ... it's unfair to label him as irreparably damaging the market. (a market that is not irreparably damaged) It's also forgotten that NOBODY wanted to buy the team and operate it in Skydome. Braley bit the bullet hard to float the team through those years leading to where we are now.

As for no long term vision mentioned by others? He had the vision to get a new stadium for Hamilton. He also had the vision to get the Argos sold to who owns them now. If anything ... he showed some long term vision at the expense of the short term. (Which seems to also be what the new ownership is also doing)

His legacy will be a mixed bag.

He will be remebered in preseving teams in the 2 biggest english media markets and despite his penny pinching ways, nobody missed a pay cheque. He is sustainer.

At the same time under his tenure the teams, he does not show the know how of how to operate a sports and entertainment firm in the 21st century. The short sighteivenss in staying with Rogers Centre with free rent (as he was backing C & S) instead of investing in the York Stadium put this franchise back 5 - 10 years. Also closing off the entire upper bowl at BC place (because he doesn't have to pay to operate those concessions) alienated fans as it removed thousands of good seats and no coindicent attendance plunged that year.

So yes, he's done allot of the league and it wouldn't be here without him but it's also time to move on.

Braley deserves credit for buying CFL franchises when no one else wanted to, but his track record minus the Bobby Ackles era is pretty terrible.

Yes, he loaned a bunch of past owners some money, but he got it back with interest, so let's not call him a saint for it.

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Originally Posted by SnowRogue

Braley deserves credit for buying CFL franchises when no one else wanted to, but his track record minus the Bobby Ackles era is pretty terrible.

Yes, he loaned a bunch of past owners some money, but he got it back with interest, so let's not call him a saint for it.

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Furthermore, he squandered significant marketing and promotional opportunities for his teams after they won Grey Cups in 2000, 2011 and 2012.

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Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

Furthermore, he squandered significant marketing and promotional opportunities for his teams after they won Grey Cups in 2000, 2011 and 2012.

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Like what...could you name any marketing and promo opportunities that were squandered? I bet you can't and that it's all assumption on your part. Hypothetically you could be critical and say he didn't market players in those championship teams, but one can also hypothetically note that CFL players are not that marketable compared to Canuck players in Vancouver, or the Leaf, Blue Jay and Raptor players in Toronto. Every member of those teams who play in leagues considered the big 4 Major Leagues in North America are more household names than any BC Lion in 2011 or Toronto Argonaut in 2012. I'm not saying that's proper or right, just saying that's the perception.

The Lions may have won the Grey Cup in November 2011, but they also started that season 0-5 in the summer, after the Canucks had just played in the Stanley Cup Finals. Who were advertisers looking to sell their products in 2012 in Greater Vancouver...the Sedins, Ryan Kesler, and Kevin Bieksa...(even Roberto Luongo) or Travis Lulay and Simon Elimimien. Not saying it's right, just saying what the perception is. The high turnover rate in football rosters does not equate to advantageous marketing oppurtunities. An example is the career of 2012 Grey Cup MVP, Chad Kackert, a favourite of mine. Sure, I know who he is because I follow the CFL and the Argos ardently, but most don't, and really, what's Kackert done since that great performance in winning the mvp of the 2012 Grey Cup. Tough to market a guy who has been injured and not maintained that level he once did. It may not even be his or the Argos management and coaching staff's fault, (debatable) but that's just how it is perceived. Other guys that were major contributors on that 2012 Grey Cup winning team disappeared as quickly as they came on the scene...Watkins left for Edmonton, Ahmad Carroll retired 3 days after the game, and Pacino Horne was also gone...and that was just in the secondary. It's been 4 years now, and these guys still haven't been replaced with capable players to even come close to contending for a Grey Cup. How could you market and promote that.

I know the Argos were in trouble this year, when nobody other than Ricky Ray was marketed...along with the refurbished stadium. New stadiums may provide a better atmosphere as BMO did, but they don't necessarily win football games as the Argos proved this season past, but I digress.

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Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill

Like what...could you name any marketing and promo opportunities that were squandered? I bet you can't and that it's all assumption on your part. Hypothetically you could be critical and say he didn't market players in those championship teams, but one can also hypothetically note that CFL players are not that marketable compared to Canuck players in Vancouver, or the Leaf, Blue Jay and Raptor players in Toronto. Every member of those teams who play in leagues considered the big 4 Major Leagues in North America are more household names than any BC Lion in 2011 or Toronto Argonaut in 2012. I'm not saying that's proper or right, just saying that's the perception.

The Lions may have won the Grey Cup in November 2011, but they also started that season 0-5 in the summer, after the Canucks had just played in the Stanley Cup Finals. Who were advertisers looking to sell their products in 2012 in Greater Vancouver...the Sedins, Ryan Kesler, and Kevin Bieksa...(even Roberto Luongo) or Travis Lulay and Simon Elimimien. Not saying it's right, just saying what the perception is. The high turnover rate in football rosters does not equate to advantageous marketing oppurtunities. An example is the career of 2012 Grey Cup MVP, Chad Kackert, a favourite of mine. Sure, I know who he is because I follow the CFL and the Argos ardently, but most don't, and really, what's Kackert done since that great performance in winning the mvp of the 2012 Grey Cup. Tough to market a guy who has been injured and not maintained that level he once did. It may not even be his or the Argos management and coaching staff's fault, (debatable) but that's just how it is perceived. Other guys that were major contributors on that 2012 Grey Cup winning team disappeared as quickly as they came on the scene...Watkins left for Edmonton, Ahmad Carroll retired 3 days after the game, and Pacino Horne was also gone...and that was just in the secondary. It's been 4 years now, and these guys still haven't been replaced with capable players to even come close to contending for a Grey Cup. How could you market and promote that.

I know the Argos were in trouble this year, when nobody other than Ricky Ray was marketed...along with the refurbished stadium. New stadiums may provide a better atmosphere as BMO did, but they don't necessarily win football games as the Argos proved this season past, but I digress.

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Pretty easy to blame Braley for low attendance for not spending money on marketing etc At the beginning of this season it was going to be a slam dunk, the move from the RC would attract thousands of new season ticket holders and there would be a run on tickets at the beginning of June when individual game tickets went on sale.
The new owners spent a lot of money on marketing, the adds on TV with the team running through the CNE, the Argo ads on the TTC, the seperate CFL ads on the TTC and bilboards. There was the free publicity in the media about the move to BMO, the CFL field conversion, the $4 beers, the tailgating publicity the concerts at the Shipyards.
None of it worked because there is a lack of interest in the CFL in the GTA.
You can still blame Braley for not spending more money on marketing and now I hear the ridiculous statement about the new owners not spending money on marketing and maybe that's the problem.
Spending more money on marketing is not going to work, that is not the problem. Too many alternatives in Toronto in the summer, the Jays great crowds as usual and the TFC is attracting that young 20 something demographic. The same demographic that are driving up NFL TV ratings.
The CFL can not attract that demographic and will continue to appeal to the dwindling baby boomer crowd.
Get used to small crowds and as long as the new owners continue to put up and pay the bills with low attendance the team is here to stay.

This year's organization produced TV commercials, radio spots, TTC ads, etc. They certainly did spend money to market the team. The fact that attendance did not meet our expectations does not necessarily mean that the marketing effort failed. Without that effort, what would attendance have been? But there's no doubt in my mind that they will need to continue to spend heavily on all forms of marketing, for the next 3-4 years at least, and probably forever.

Braley's regime spent close to zero on marketing after 2012. No TV commercials, few radio spots, few newspaper ads, no TTC ads, etc. That contributed in a major way to the team's diminishing profile in this tough market. Of course this all began in 1981 when Ralph Sazio became GM and decided to stop spending money promoting the team, just as the Blue Jays were starting to gain a toehold in the public consciousness.

Braley fired the marketing team and spent nothing on marketing . Can't think of a better example.

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

This year's organization produced TV commercials, radio spots, TTC ads, etc. They certainly did spend money to market the team. The fact that attendance did not meet our expectations does not necessarily mean that the marketing effort failed. Without that effort, what would attendance have been? But there's no doubt in my mind that they will need to continue to spend heavily on all forms of marketing, for the next 3-4 years at least, and probably forever.

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It takes time. So they'll have to just continue what they are doing. In the past we had some success from doing this stuff (early C&S) but the foot was taken off the pedal every time.

Look at Rogers with the Jays. Through the last season with full houses they still ran Blue Jay ads all over the place. They just never stop. The Argos have to do the same ... even if they fill the joint.

I recall and example from when I took marketing in College eons ago. Coke is massive in Atlanta. Back then they had about 95% market share and Atlanta was the home of the company. They did an experiment figuring they could drop advertising and keep market share since Coke was such a huge part of the area. They stopped advertising in the area and after 3 months their market share dropped to 65%. They immediately went back to their normal advertising and were back at 95% in 6 months.

So if the Argos even maintain this level of advertising for years to come ... it will pay dividends. Add to that a more exciting team to watch (so sportscentre had cool stuff each game) ... and then we'll be talking Cordoba!

Good post Ron. A short few years ago, it was commonplace to have crowds under 15k, sometimes close to 10k for Jays games. It was hard to give tickets away, no one was talking Jays on the radio and it just wasn't "cool" anymore. The only solution was to tear the Dome down. Changing the perception and winning of course, has made everything great again in Jays land. There's even a non-stop Jays radio station. I wonder how their making out on their real grass plans?

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Originally Posted by Ron

It takes time. So they'll have to just continue what they are doing. In the past we had some success from doing this stuff (early C&S) but the foot was taken off the pedal every time.

Look at Rogers with the Jays. Through the last season with full houses they still ran Blue Jay ads all over the place. They just never stop. The Argos have to do the same ... even if they fill the joint.

I recall and example from when I took marketing in College eons ago. Coke is massive in Atlanta. Back then they had about 95% market share and Atlanta was the home of the company. They did an experiment figuring they could drop advertising and keep market share since Coke was such a huge part of the area. They stopped advertising in the area and after 3 months their market share dropped to 65%. They immediately went back to their normal advertising and were back at 95% in 6 months.

So if the Argos even maintain this level of advertising for years to come ... it will pay dividends. Add to that a more exciting team to watch (so sportscentre had cool stuff each game) ... and then we'll be talking Cordoba!

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Not sure if I mentioned this before, but it would be pretty cool to have Bell insert Argos marketing and deals in their service billing. I remember when I had Rogers, I would get Blue Jays propaganda all the time.

Argos should also take a page out of some NHL teams strategy. Offer a family of 4 deal which includes 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs or pop corns and 4 drinks for a set amount (say $75). That would be a good way to try and get families out.

Argos should also take a page out of some NHL teams strategy. Offer a family of 4 deal which includes 4 tickets, 4 hot dogs or pop corns and 4 drinks for a set amount (say $75). That would be a good way to try and get families out.[/QUOTE]

The Als have offered this deal for years to families and students