Where to find 1/2 Stadium of Fans

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Originally Posted by matthew

So part two of my boat logo comment on the Argo hype thread.

I am starting to agree with many on here that Say they are not seeing much of a "sales job" on behalf of the marketing/ticket sales department.

I will point to the tailgate as an example. Great idea. Wasn't really into to it at start but now I am all about it. I think it's a good time. However I feel the organization has just put the tailgate out there and is Letting it germinate on its own with little to no nurturing. As an example I have brought some new people to it but have not once been approached by a Argos staffer coming around and asking "any new folks first timers here?" followed by giving this "up" a sales pitch.

Wouldn't this be the ideal time to hit up these prospects when they are immersed in the experience and likely having a great time because you know they are there at someone's invitation and would likely be receptive to your message vs a cold call or waiting for them to come To you?

What would you guys guess is the percentage of first timers at the tailgate 5-10%. Even we even captured half of these people what a good way to get something brewing to getting butts in seats.

Now the oars guys at the home opener got me thinking. What a great symbol for our team. Why dosent the team create some cardboard and digital oars that contain some sort of referral season ticket or single game offer that I as STH can grab at each game and hand out socially amongst friends or at the office to those that have expressed a small interest in coming to a game?

What about a digital oar that could act as a key for the recipient to gain access to athis same ticket offer. I wear my Argos stuff all the time and have had many conversations at home depot checkout line or in the aisles with people that see the shirt and start asking about the Argos. Many have never been and some even used to. The best I can do is tell them the team website to action a mild interest which they likely forget by the time they reach the door.

But if I could airdrop them a "oar" that unlocks an Easter egg offer they may be more likely to use it. The team can track redemption very easily. Maybe it's something I could send from apple wallet.

This keyncould also be shared by them with someone else so they can spread the word to a person second and third removed from the original giver. Find a way to share an oar on social media where it can be shared again and again. Hand em out like candy. It has to be easy for us to do it and we all carry our phones. That is the means. The most digitally I can do with this team aside from visiting their website is get my tics from ticket master digitally. Isn't that odd in today's marketing space?

We are the real sales and marketing team for the Argos. We have the passion and the enthusiasm for this team. It's infectious but a person I am talking to needs a tool to use and a means to act once they experience And are maybe inspired by our passion.

Sorry about bad grammar I am on my phone and was reading all this negative attendance bs in the media on a walk and I just got struck with an idea. Just in a rush to get it on paper and out there so people could put meat on it. Hopefully the team reads our ideas because we care.

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I like your digital idea. I also agree we can be a large part of the marketing team. We figure we have around 5k season ticket holders. If we all brought 2 additional people to each game that would be tremendous, but we all know at times it is hard to get people to come out. I was able to move all my preseason tickets and everyone I invited showed up.

Lessons from other organizations need to be studied such as TFC and the Raptors. These two teams did not always play with lots of buts in the seats. I believe the fans are already there as it was not that long ago we would have easily been able to fill this stadium.

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Originally Posted by Shatto

There have been some excellent suggestions --hope the powers that be, will have read the submissions.
Additionally I would suggest:
.Tailgating should be a perk provided free for STH's--instead of the measly $3 discount offered this year.
. As with others, the East side should have drastically reduced pricing
. Bell should make it a priority that their enterprises like CP24, CFTO etc must publicise the Argos, to raise public awareness that the team exists
. Copeland and perhaps some other senior staff must be informed, annual evaluations will reflect success/failure to improve attendance

As another poster has suggested, there must be a buzz created around the Argos. Some of the previously offered suggestions by posters, might well help create that buzz----but there is only one person that automatically creates that buzz by his presence -the team must entice Michael Clemons to take a more active role in highlighting this team--how about a 5% ownership in the team? Outlandish suggestion perhaps but desperate times demand desperate actions.

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You can already walk into the Tailgates by just showing your game ticket.

I don't think that people realize the costs to run the Tailgates. Paid duty police, Security, Paramedics, Beer, Beer sellers, Parking lot rent, Portable washrooms... I'd be surprised if the Argonauts are even breaking even on the Tailgates.

The suggestion of free tailgating for STH's is really making a case for free parking for STH's. Since many do drive to game, anything to attract fans should be seriously considered. Presently, parking next to stadium is $25 and tailgating is $27 for STH's if they buy a season pass. The team may have to run this as a loss but any marketing will cost money and talking to casual fans who live in the 905 area, free tailgating would appear to a real attraction to them.
Most of my 905 area friends can't name of one Argo player, aside from Ray, but they do talk about the appeal of tailgating, so let's try to capitalize on that interest. Might be the cheapest marketing option available.
I completely agree with Nealy's comment that there are costs to the tailgating but within my circle of friends, it is the one thing presently getting positive attention from them and the wider community. If the cost of offering free tailgating to STH's is considered too prohibitive to team management, then at least, they should consider making it a more persuasive fee ($10?).
These are desperate times and any creative, innovative, out side of the box idea should be considered even they are eventually discarded as unreasonable or too costly. Nothing ventured is nothing gained.

From Friends Of The Argonauts Facebook Post:

Quotes of the week:

Ricky Ray on Argos games attendance:
“Maybe we need to take a different approach. Instead of complaining all the time, let’s thank the fans who do come out and support us. They have a great time and it’s a great game. Hopefully other people will see that and say, ‘I’d like to check that out’”

Bear Woods on attendance:
“I’m just thankful for the 13,000 that did come. We really appreciate them taking time out of their day, spending their money, to come see us. But as far as looking at the crowd size . . . that’s going to get better. It just will.”

Chris Van Zeyl on Ricky Ray:
“He makes me and a lot of other guys want to be better players. You want to block for him every day. I would play with a broken leg for him”

Rogers got their message out to all who live in TO. always telling us how all the major leagues were so much more superior. No body in Toronto ever gave a rebuttal or defended the minor league reference to the CFL. The team and league could never gain any traction in trying to market their players. Now they are/we are fighting the no attendance issues.

In reality though it is NHL who is the Major League loser. Only 1500 players playing Major Jr A hockey and during draft time a few from the NCAA.
CFL/NFL draft a total of 300 with 75000 playing NCAA football and almost the same number playing Usports football as they have in Major Jr A hockey. Never talked about.

Until the league figures out a more aggressive approach to the bullying tactics of Rogers nothing will change.

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Originally Posted by Neely2005

From Friends Of The Argonauts Facebook Post:

Quotes of the week:

Ricky Ray on Argos games attendance:
“Maybe we need to take a different approach. Instead of complaining all the time, let’s thank the fans who do come out and support us. They have a great time and it’s a great game. Hopefully other people will see that and say, ‘I’d like to check that out’”

Bear Woods on attendance:
“I’m just thankful for the 13,000 that did come. We really appreciate them taking time out of their day, spending their money, to come see us. But as far as looking at the crowd size . . . that’s going to get better. It just will.”

Chris Van Zeyl on Ricky Ray:
“He makes me and a lot of other guys want to be better players. You want to block for him every day. I would play with a broken leg for him”

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How can you not like these players, they deserve larger crowds appreciating their talents.

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Originally Posted by Argo57

How can you not like these players, they deserve larger crowds appreciating their talents.

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They do. However I must admit that sometimes I wonder if Toronto deserves them.

OK --- we've established that they are nice guys or more realistically we perceive them as such (and I honestly am not diminishing that sentiment as I like cheering for decent people over assholes too in terms of my favourite teams) and that they deserve a better fate than playing in front of a half empty stadium.....but what is actually being done to make that happen by the front office?

Frankly being a swell guy doesn't sell tickets in this town - only winning does (sometimes) and/or generating a "buzz" of excitement over your product (always!) --- hey the 1991 Blues Brothers reunion, Rocket Ismail, and Gretzky and McNall/Candy sold tickets whatever you may think of that era - no buzz and winning in 96/97 didn't sell tickets --- sadly that is what this city is about - wanting to be "in the place to be seen"....Ricky Williams didn't work but at least it was an attempt....Toronto is a "different" CFL animal then any other team in the league and needs to be treated as such - you can't just rely on the history of the "grand old game" to sell your product here - in terms of entertainment opportunities only Montreal and Vancouver compare to it and neither of those markets has the Blue Jays taking away sports entertainment dollars in direct competition with their CFL team....we will never be a Saskatchewan where the Riders are the only game in town, of course it's a big deal out there, what else is there for a sports fan to do in the summer in Regina? The cost and travel time involved for people in a major city is different than a smaller market as well, sure you have many more people, but you have many more options available and things cost a heck of a lot more here (enjoy your $30 parking and your 2 hr commute!), to me only Vancouver is somehow comparable these days and they are struggling at the gate too.....

We've also had our share of less than stellar personalities on the Jays who people both loved or hated (is Bautista a beloved player based on his personality? Clemens won 2 Cy Young awards and was ignored by many as the team sucked around him - no buzz, no fans) and the Leafs beloved "personalities"? (too many interesting characters to mention - Kessel scored goals and was loathed by most as lazy - he managed to be a "useful" part on a Cup winning team though, Sundin was also less beloved than a Wendel or a Gilmour by most people in this town (was he not a nice guy too?), or people with less than stellar back stories (and arrest records) who play on our local teams and be treated as heroes if they performed well while wearing our uniform....others performed well and were upstanding citizens and were simply ignored. (Flutie arguably the greatest CFL talent over the last 30 years or so played in front of 22,000 and won back to back Grey Cups and was mostly ignored, am I missing the Paul Masotti love from this city ;) ?).....frankly I like winning and going to a game that has a "buzz" in the air of anticipation and excitement - being a nice guy is great and all but it's not making people go to the game, mostly we just cheer for laundry (as Seinfeld once said), sure some players live on past the uniform (Pinball, Wendel, Alomar) but many others are favourites when they're here and "forgotten" when they are gone (are Sundin, Stieb, Delgado, Fenerty, Greer getting a lot of love these days?) ---- they are all flawed people as are we all......we can lament that they deserve better and try to market their personalities, but management better be thinking beyond that lament and actually do something to change people's attitudes in this town, as quietly hoping for better things ain't cutting it in a 1000 channel universe and a city full of entertainment options that demands one step outside the box to get some attention and generate some interest......if what you're doing is not working, and it clearly isn't, then it's time to take some HR swings and attempt something else.....I'd rather see some attempts that fail ($10 ticket night? guaranteed win night?), bring in some person/celebrity/sports figure of interest to sign autographs pre-game (etc.) rather than see no attempt at all, or the same failed ideas being rehashed over and over again.....but hey at least we have nice guys and a 1/2 empty stadium to cheer for them, so I guess that's something right.....again, I wish it was different and the game just sold itself in this market as it is a great game, but it clearly does not work that way here anymore, and frankly has not for some time in this city, which is a different beast entirely compared to the rest of the league, regular marketing won't work here, only extraordinary attempts to generate interest will do.....and nothing that I have seen so far screams extraordinary......

(BTW I am agreeing with the previous posters about them deserving a better response from this market - I am just frustrated that we have been reduced to the point of just saying they deserve better....unfortunately much, much more is required to turn this thing around....)

In the movie, Good Company. Teddy K (Malcolm McDowell) called it Synergy. The whole point of Bell Media buying the Argos was to benefit all the sports properties to the benefit of all the sports properties and Bell Media. Also, to bail out TSNonCFL. No Argos, no value of the property. https://youtu.be/PURYT7fFL3E. If they didn't leverage the properties, Teddy K would be pissed!

As an aside - if a Teddy Bear (Woods) giveaway or a Teddy Bear toss (like at minor hockey games where the Bears are donated to a local hospital after being thrown on the ice after the first home goal (TD?!), or even if just handed at the box office/gate for a free kids ticket (or heavily discounted adult ($10?!) ticket), is not in the works already then this marketing department is beyond me ;), you signed a great player named Bear Woods for goodness sake - everyone in this town should know who he is already and you should be marketing the crap out of that guy, he has the name, the look, and the game to back it up.....might generate a positive news story (or dare I say "buzz") if 20,000 bears are thrown onto the field or if the team is seen partnering with local hospitals showing up with bags of bears for the kids......again, just tossing out ideas here, try something, anything, different?! (I wanted to go with Bear Woods wrestling a live bear like Will Ferrell in the movie Semi-Pro but as the movie teaches us sometimes wrestling a live animal can lead to things going horribly, horribly wrong.... ;) )

We need more ideas fellow Argosfans and apparently this team needs our help desperately --- anyone else got some marketing experience or an idea or two?

Roster longevity would help long term. Ask a sports fan to start naming Argos, they would say Pinball first, then maybe Ray. We need more visibility.
That's also marketing. Last year it was all about selling the tailgate, but to your fan coming by go train or tfc, or that prefers the 5 dollar lot, tailgating isn't a factor.

Someone needs to step up and be the face of this team.

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Originally Posted by Argos1983

Frankly being a swell guy doesn't sell tickets in this town - only winning does (sometimes) and/or generating a "buzz" of excitement over your product (always!) --- hey the 1991 Blues Brothers reunion, Rocket Ismail, and Gretzky and McNall/Candy sold tickets whatever you may think of that era

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The 1991 team exceeded 40,000 only twice -- for the home opener with the Blues Brothers and for the Eastern Final. Ownership was counting on sellouts and instead got an average of 36,000. The following year, defending the Grey Cup and with most of the same players -- including the most buzzed-about player in Argo history, Rocket Ismail -- attendance fell to 32,000 on average. So I think it's erroneous to say buzz "always!" sells. (Yes, I know we'd all love to average 22,000 right now, much less 32,000, but there's a relativity factor here -- the 1991 Argonauts had a one-third empty stadium, and in 1992 it was 40% empty.)

Furthermore, if we truly can't ever draw crowds without creating "buzz," aren't we doomed to constantly chasing the Manziels of the world? And in reality, is there a football player alive today who would actually create the kind of buzz that would fill BMO? As you noted, Ricky Williams didn't do it. I suppose Tom Brady would but obviously he's not coming here; nor is any other NFLer with a big enough name to make the indifferents or negatives sit up and take notice.

As much as we like the Bear Woods, Shawn Lemon and Ricky Rays of the world, we are forgetting that (and I emphasize no disrespect) the average 'thumb your noser' will just view those three (or whomever the Argos utilized) as guys who couldn't make the NFL. Even emphasizing local content isn't helpful because how much attention does local grassroots football really get? The exception to that rule might be Pinball, but he isn't a current player which is what I think you want to try and go for. Ray seems like a logical choice, and while he's a nice guy in the couple of instances I met him he does appear to be a little bit shy. The problem then becomes if the Argos are 'forced' to the Manziels of the world as a result they risk it blowing up in their faces like what happened with the Argos in the 1970's.

I know "buzz" doesn't always sell but as you said 22,000 or 32,000 would look great now - relativity to stadium size is silly here, all we care about is butts in seats now, the Argos have obviously acknowledged that going from a 50,000 to a 30,000 seat venue is not an issue due to decreased demand - but this idea that getting fans in the building in 2017 is the same in the age of way more entertainment options and TV channels and internet streams including a way better viewing experience at home on a large HD TV is not radically different then 1991 or even 2001 or even 2010 is silly.....things have exploded exponentially in the digital age and the Argos are still trying to market themselves like a small market team in a big market town, where the great CFL game will sell itself, it simply won't in this market anymore (sad to say but it's true), the average Argos fan is aging rapidly and getting young people into your product requires different approaches than marketing to us "old timers" who remember the CFL in its glory days of relevance and importance in this town and this country, when we had 10 channels to choose from, no internet to distract us, the Jays were irrelevant, and TFC didn't even exist.....apparently that number of old die hards is about 3-5 thousand STH (including me), ok then, now who's buying the other 20,000 seats?!

So yes, does it suck that the Argos based on simple merit and history don't succeed at the gate?! Sure, but I'd rather have 22,000 people there who need to be constantly marketed to (and they do I fully acknowledge that -- by the way haven't we chased Joe Theisman, Rocket Ismail, Ricky Williams and others to come to this league to draw the "uninterested" fans (or the "thumb your nosers" as someone just said) to our game?! - this has been going on for decades now --- and yes, it is not a long term solution, the Argos arent at the long term sustained interest stage anymore in this market (those days are long gone I'm afraid), it is going to be a constant year to year battle to capture the attention of a very fickle and easily distracted audience in this day and age --- how many of you are looking at your phones during a game? we are all easily distracted now, let's be honest!), as opposed to just marketing to the 10,000 die hards saying we don't need all the frills as the game is awesome by itself with unknown players with the purity of the experience kept intact.....at some point you have to try something different.....again, did I miss the big Bear Woods marketing campaign so we can maybe develop some player and brand awareness beyond Pinball and Ray......is it really that hard to come up with some ad copy promoting the "Bear" mauling the opposition or if a Bear Woods tackles someone in the forest everyone hears it kind of stuff.....

Again --please show me the ideas that have worked and will work in this market for sustained growth of attendance of this team in this era (in the last 10 years or so?) --- you simply can't, because they don't exist anymore (even TFC stole the remaining chunk of fans looking for a new and fun experience for a "lower" league of talent in a new stadium -- MLS and CFL are clearly not perceived as the "best" leagues in their respective sport by any average fan in this town) --- it is going to be short term band-aids for a long time to come.....I wish it was different but wishing and hoping is not going to change this reality --- anyone else have some marketing ideas for THIS YEAR that they would like to share.....I'd prefer not to just give up on this team drawing more than 20,000 for any game at least once this year (during the Ex? Saskatchewan?)......I am not trying to be negative - but where are the innovative ideas to sell tickets? and why aren't I hearing about them from the front office?

I think Manziel would generate the buzz, get some people out once or twice, but agree it isn't a long term solution. If it works and he exceeds expectations, an nfl team will come calling and you're back to the current situation.
He could divide the locker room, if he flops the media will be all over it Toronto media loves shredding a big time athlete.
Plus we have a QB already.

That said, the league as a whole needs new qbs and some new buzz. We don't have to go too far back when you could name the QBs for every team, Austin, Dunnigan, McManus.
The league needs to do better in developing QBs, and having them stay with their franchises.
I've never had an attachment to Ray as an Argo. We need to develop a long term career Argo QB at some point. Way too much player movement in this league.

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Originally Posted by Topshelf

Roster longevity would help long term. Ask a sports fan to start naming Argos, they would say Pinball first, then maybe Ray. We need more visibility.
That's also marketing. Last year it was all about selling the tailgate, but to your fan coming by go train or tfc, or that prefers the 5 dollar lot, tailgating isn't a factor.

Someone needs to step up and be the face of this team.

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Your game ticket gets you into the Tailgate for free if you're Not driving and parking in the Tailgate.

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Originally Posted by Argos1983

Again --please show me the ideas that have worked and will work in this market for sustained growth of attendance of this team in this era (in the last 10 years or so?) --- you simply can't, because they don't exist anymore . . .

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Chasing a big name to draw "buzz" has failed in this market all three times it has been tried in the past three decades -- 1991-92, 1996-97 and 2006. Yet you still believe that will work now?

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Originally Posted by paulwoods13

Chasing a big name to draw "buzz" has failed in this market all three times it has been tried in the past three decades -- 1991-92, 1996-97 and 2006. Yet you still believe that will work now?

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Your definition of "fail" is different than mine ---- did Rocket Ismail put butts in the seats short term? (we are nowhere near averaging even close to 20,000 people a game at this point, this is desperation time my friend) --- yes he did and they won a title too (hey I'd like a competitive team too! - that sounds like more fun as opposed to going 5-13) --- Flutie and company were the best team this league has seen in decades (since the 70s Esks in my opinion) and all that proved is that there is no interest in this product even if simply winning games in great bunches is the metric of success (and they won two titles too!).....so this whole idea of let's win some games and then the people will come out thing is obviously not "it" either.....Ricky Williams was a failure sure, what about Theisman? was that a failure too?! (lost tragically in the Grey Cup in 1971) and he was a two time CFL all star --- again please don't misinterpret what I am saying --- I get that chasing "buzz" with the stars that people have heard of is not a "long-term" solution....but short-term it might create an interest that simply isn't there now --- there are NO long term solutions right now in this market period - they need to get butts in seats now before the perception becomes even worse that this thing is simply a lost cause of a bygone era. It is going to be a year by year thing to try to gain some semblance of relevance to people in this town beyond some old-timers who long for the glory days of past in this league which simply don't exist in Toronto anymore.....people looking at some magical grass-roots type of solution is not working in Toronto in this day and age, they are simply being ignored in this market and apathy is way worse than the bad press they might receive by chasing a "saviour" for a year or two (who knows maybe some media will actually think they are "trying" and give them some much needed coverage if they actually get a "name" player or engage in some catchy marketing -- I stand by my "Teddy Bear (Woods) Toss" idea from earlier - ha ha ha!) ---- people (especially young people) simply don't care anymore and that's the issue --- sometimes they need to be "jolted" into recognizing there is a football team in this town every decade or so.....how about autograph signings at every game from our illustrious Argos Alumni? where is it? once a year they trot out the old-timers (home opener last year and July 24th this year?) is that going to bring more people out than Mitch Marner for example? or some Drake type of equivalent that the Raptors used to market themselves for a while, the Leafs marketed the crap out of that 100th anniversary with alumni appearances all over the place.....see other teams do it too....

Again Paul - I know that no one is a bigger fan of this team than you are and heck I bought your book and loved it (look at my user name for goodness sake - I love that 1983 team) ;) --- it's just that the Argos as we know them (and grew up with them) don't work in this market anymore the way they are being sold, it's just a reality, the younger generation of sought after fans are submerged in a "celebrity" driven culture with short attention spans to something being cool or relevant, with memes and 140 characters taking over how we consume a product in most cases.....I know that's a bit of a stereotype but again, please let me know the last time you saw someone under 30 not have a phone in their hands at a sporting event, texting their friends and taking pictures of themselves at the game.....I spend most of my time at Jays games (filled with lots of bandwagon fans who appeared since August 2015 and a good portion of which who will leave by next year once the "cool factor" is gone) taking pictures for people so that they can post them on Instagram way more than getting them to clap when there is a two strike count on a hitter.....again, the world and market we live in is vastly different in this time and in this city compared to other CFL towns and even Toronto of the past 10 years, the Argos ship has sailed my friend and we might be the only ones left on it at this point.....

I am still not hearing any ideas for actually marketing this team over the next 7 home games besides lowering ticket prices drastically.....what do people think will actually put butts in the seats short of handing out the tickets for free on the sidealk (and even then?!).....is anyone confident that this is being done outside of a bobblehead next game - anything else I'm missing? Please tell me what we are trying? we can blame the media for not covering it, but what is it they are supposed to be telling everyone about in terms of marketing?

Last year I mentioned that every team should do a women's day game. Get all the women out for something special.
Have the young girl who did the commercial tour that day. Tie it to Breast Cancer awareness or a donation to Women's C hospital. Seems to fit the CFL you can play theme

Also a minor football or minor athletics day- special price for students - high school or anything. Let all the kids put their school name on the ballet and draw it at 1/2 time. Wear your team jersey. The Monday night game with the bobble head give away - maybe 1 or 2 schools win something using the 50/50 money. Something pasted under the seat for a couple of them? Jersey giveaways. Flag football kits for the schools. 4 Grey Cup tickets if there are any left. Send out a bulletin to all the local schools - might be fun. Do it in Sept

Spending money for this kind of marketing is money well spent.

Yay!! Ideas!!.....apparently various theme nights is a thing that was supposed to be part of this year -- does anyone know anything planned beyond July 24th? any targeted marketing towards different groups for certain future games? and if so, why is this not being widely publicized? The image to me that this is a bare bones operation in terms of marketing has not changed since June 1st when the push really should have started for single game ticket sales frankly.....

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Originally Posted by Argofan_1000

Last year I mentioned that every team should do a women's day game. Get all the women out for something special.
Have the young girl who did the commercial tour that day. Tie it to Breast Cancer awareness or a donation to Women's C hospital. Seems to fit the CFL you can play theme

Also a minor football or minor athletics day- special price for students - high school or anything. Let all the kids put their school name on the ballet and draw it at 1/2 time. Wear your team jersey. The Monday night game with the bobble head give away - maybe 1 or 2 schools win something using the 50/50 money. Something pasted under the seat for a couple of them? Jersey giveaways. Flag football kits for the schools. 4 Grey Cup tickets if there are any left. Send out a bulletin to all the local schools - might be fun. Do it in Sept

Spending money for this kind of marketing is money well spent.

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