#8 better be looking out for garbage bag.(WARNING)

[Gill The Thrill]

This is meant as a warning, or Milanovich may beat me to it, but that was selfish and just careless play by Ahmad Carroll today.

He took 2 pass interference penalties on the same drive that led to the Esks first TD...To his credit he made amends with a nice interception, but then selfishly took a stupid unnecessary roughness penalty midway through the 4th Quarter after the Argos had stopped the Esks on Second down.

Milanovich rightly took Carroll off after that and I don't recall seeing him in the Secondary after that. He actually made all his penalties playing the defensive left side and made his INT playing on the defensive right side for what that's worth, but an unnecessary roughness after the play has nothing to do with that, so that's inexcusable.

With NFL final cuts coming, the quality of player available can be so much more capable than a guy cut last week, so I think Carroll better watch his back and be on his best behaviour on and off the field or he could find himself replaced...hence why I use the term "looking out for the garbage bag"...the one that will have his belongings from his locker if it's cleaned because they've brought in someone to possibly replace him.

He has some ability, but ability without brains and teamwork will kill any team and make his services expendable imo.

I may be harsh, but I like the attitude that Milanovich is trying to instill in this roster, so I would not be surprised if Carroll is given his walking papers...no doubt the Eskimos purposefully threw towards him a lot today, so it's not as if he's scaring anybody out there also.

[argolio]

Unless it becomes a habit, I doubt he's going anywhere. I think he's one of the best DBs in the league.

Both teams went nuts with the penalties in this game.

[1argoholic]

Carroll had 79 yards in pentalties by himself. On that long pass interferance penalty he just ran right over Koch without turning around with the ball in the air.
The way things are going I'm getting back to my preseason thoughts that we are a few years away from winning anything. Too many changes and obviously more needed. Sad that Edmonton swept us with all of our ex-players. Ray now has 9td's and 9 picks. GREAT!

[Gill The Thrill]

Unless it becomes a habit, I doubt he's going anywhere. I think he's one of the best DBs in the league.

Both teams went nuts with the penalties in this game.

He may be fast as he was on the track team in Arkansas, but he's got a reputation throughout North America...I made my first post starting this thread before I even read his bio on Wikipedia which I just did now ...poor guy better hire an agent to clean up that Wiki page, but if it's true, then these illegal contact penalties have been his achilles heel throughout his carear.

Cut in Green Bay after picking up 3 penalties in a game back in 2006, (sounds familiar) and could not stick with the Jets, and finally an example of a costly penalty that he took against the Eskies in their first meeting in Week #1....damn Eskies did their homework and are just working on this guy until he breaks.

Argolio, he's also already 29 yrs old so we're talking about a lesser version of Willie Pile and Willie Middlebrooks who were both better than this guy and much smarter in recovering from a play instead of just throwing himself on receiver and getting a flag.

There is no write up of his time in Calgary in 2010, but I don't think he got any game action.

[argolio]

Fair enough, but I still don't think he'll be cut because of this game. The coaching staff may come to a different conclusion.

[Gill The Thrill]

Carroll had 79 yards in pentalties by himself. On that long pass interferance penalty he just ran right over Koch without turning around with the ball in the air.
The way things are going I'm getting back to my preseason thoughts that we are a few years away from winning anything. Too many changes and obviously more needed. Sad that Edmonton swept us with all of our ex-players. Ray now has 9td's and 9 picks. GREAT!

Here's a surprise, he's a Barker signing and an NFL castoff...(note sarcasm)..lol

I've been saying it for years, the CFL is not just a league where you can win a Grey Cup by signing as many NFL rejects as possible....This is why some people on here get on Barker for his ability or lack thereof of finding QUALITY Canadian talent...Look at Nate Coehoorn, playing WR for Edmonton and his college credentials are that his from the University of Alberta...can you believe the nerve of that organization. By the way, not to change topic, but was Spencer Watt playing today, or was on injured list....If he was playing, then he should hire a hollywood agent and apply for the role of, "the invisible man" because he was stupendous at that today if he was on the field.

[KCargosfan]

Fair enough, but I still don't think he'll be cut because of this game. The coaching staff may come to a different conclusion.

Agreed. I think it would be a rash overreaction to cut Carroll because of one game. I also think he's been one of the best DBs in the CFL this year. It's not like he's Geoff Tisdale.

[Nob]

It would be an overreaction to cut him, but the coaches won't be doing their job if they not put him on notice to let him know that penalties, especially the unsefish UR penalty away from the play, will result in reduced playing time.

[argolio]

It would be an overreaction to cut him, but the coaches won't be doing their job if they not put him on notice to let him know that penalties, especially the unsefish UR penalty away from the play, will result in reduced playing time.

I can't argue with that.

[Gill The Thrill]

Agreed. I think it would be a rash overreaction to cut Carroll because of one game. I also think he's been one of the best DBs in the CFL this year. It's not like he's Geoff Tisdale.

Is he really much better.

Compare yourselves to the best football organizations in any league not to the worst. Any management team and coaching staff should demand high standards, and if that means getting rid of a guy because he takes selfish penalties and can't handle the responsibility of his job description as a DB, then so be it. Standards need to be set.

Did Carroll actually get back on the field after his unnecessary roughness penalty in the 4th quarter, if he didn't then that's a great continuation in Milanovich maintaining a standard of discipline that should be expected from a professional football player in any league.

[gilthethrill]

Here's a surprise, he's a Barker signing and an NFL castoff...(note sarcasm)..lol

I've been saying it for years, the CFL is not just a league where you can win a Grey Cup by signing as many NFL rejects as possible....This is why some people on here get on Barker for his ability or lack thereof of finding QUALITY Canadian talent...Look at Nate Coehoorn, playing WR for Edmonton and his college credentials are that his from the University of Alberta...can you believe the nerve of that organization. By the way, not to change topic, but was Spencer Watt playing today, or was on injured list....If he was playing, then he should hire a hollywood agent and apply for the role of, "the invisible man" because he was stupendous at that today if he was on the field.

Chris Jones had him in Calgary briefly last season, I would think as assistant GM he would have had input on bringing Carrol to Toronto.

[paulwoods13]

Milanovich said after the game on radio that he loves his players and is not looking to get rid of anyone, but guys will be held accountable. With the spare DBs the Argos already have around (assuming they are healthy), I think it's at least possible Ahmad will be sat next week, but I don't see him being cut. He did have an absolutely atrocious game and it was great to see him pulled off the field after that last stupid penalty, Milanovich said he told Jones to do it but that Jones would have done it anyway. I watched Jones a few times last night and he seemed increasingly pissed off at what he as seeing from the defence.

[KCargosfan]

Is he really much better.

Compare yourselves to the best football organizations in any league not to the worst. Any management team and coaching staff should demand high standards, and if that means getting rid of a guy because he takes selfish penalties and can't handle the responsibility of his job description as a DB, then so be it. Standards need to be set.

Did Carroll actually get back on the field after his unnecessary roughness penalty in the 4th quarter, if he didn't then that's a great continuation in Milanovich maintaining a standard of discipline that should be expected from a professional football player in any league.

Is he really much better than Geoff Tisdale? Did you really ask that question?

[1argoholic]

On that long bomb penalty he could have seen that Koch was starting to go for the ball. All he had to do was turn his head and there's no pentaly. He just ran over him.
I agree with Gill bigtime. Look how many stiffs can be calling themselves ex NFLers every year. That was one of the worst games by a db I've seen in a long time.

[Will]

No doubt that Carroll had a bad game yesterday, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus. I thought he'd been rather good this season up until yesterday.

[AngeloV]

No doubt that Carroll had a bad game yesterday, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus. I thought he'd been rather good this season up until yesterday.

I couldn't agree more. The only penalties I had a problem with were the offside (no reason not to give a yard off the ball..he wasn't rushing in a blitz package on the play) and the roughing penalty. The PI was a tough one. It was a great fake and the hole D got sucked in. It's so easy to say turn your head, but when you are in chase mode, it's difficult. In fact, usually, when they turn their head in that situation, they lose track of everything and Koch probably catches that ball instead of the PI.

[1argoholic]

I forgot to mention that not only all the penalties but he got burned on that bomb of a one handed catch by Stamps. If he continues to play this way you have to swap him out with someone who can play.

[ArgoRavi]

I forgot to mention that not only all the penalties but he got burned on that bomb of a one handed catch by Stamps. If he continues to play this way you have to swap him out with someone who can play.

This was the first bad game that Carroll has had. I also wouldn't blame him on that Stamps catch. The coverage couldn't have been better. Sometimes you just have to take your hat off to the opposition for a perfectly executed play which is what happened there.

[argotom]

Carroll had 79 yards in pentalties by himself. On that long pass interferance penalty he just ran right over Koch without turning around with the ball in the air.
The way things are going I'm getting back to my preseason thoughts that we are a few years away from winning anything. Too many changes and obviously more needed. Sad that Edmonton swept us with all of our ex-players. Ray now has 9td's and 9 picks. GREAT!

#1 I agree with you.
That play by Carroll was one of the worst coverage plays that I can recall in recently memory.
The guy was completely clueless as all he had to do was turn around and therefore he would have stepped in front of the receiver.
He would have seen there was nothing else required as the ball was well overthrown and had no chance for a completion.
Instead the guy panicks and causes an eventual score.
He should be gone.
As for the team, I hate to agree with you as this team is barely treading water.
With the desperate Cats coming up two games in the row, if we do not improve all three phases but especially the offense and Ray's subpar performance, it could get ugly.

[OV Argo]

No doubt that Carroll had a bad game yesterday, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus. I thought he'd been rather good this season up until yesterday.

Yep - i agree - Carroll has been quite good this year, up till yesterday's game (and he still had a nice pick in that game); you weern't hearing his name mentioned that much prior to last game - which is usually a good thing for a corner; i think the guy has some serious DB skills, but if he gets inot all sorts of penalty problems, he may get replaced - football is the most - what have you done for me lately - of all sports.

And yep - Jones and Barker like their ex-NFL resume guys - Carroll & Watkins, McCune, Huntley, Flemons, Wroten (Armstead apparently would have graded an NFL pick), Kuale; the Stamps D that Jones had was a revolving door of a lot of ex-NFLers over a few seasons - had some definite talent but IMO never molded / gelled into a consistent strong unit; pretty decent assumption that a player who was drafted in or spent time on an NFL roster has some serious football talent; assuming you can throw a bunch of them together and they will make for a good CFL unit or team, is another matter.