Vanier Cup

[argolio]

As a Waterloo grad, I certainly hope so. Except for a few years during the mid to late 1990's, Waterloo has had bad teams. I remember one season around 1980 when I was a student there, the OUA consisted of 8 teams but they put the 4 best teams in 1 division (Western, Laurier, Guelph, Toronto) and the worst 4 in the other division (Waterloo, Windsor, McMaster, York) and the 2 top teams in each division made the playoffs. I remember Waterloo making the playoffs but getting blown out. It may have been Waterloo's first football playoff game. Anybody else remember this?

Don't remember a two division set-up in 1980, but I have a U of T program from 1982, and I know the OUAA definitely had one division in 1981, and every year after that as I recall.

According to http://www.cisfootball.org/history/oq80-present.html :

1980 - one change in league names took place, the eight-team OQIFC West Division was renamed the OUAA football conference while the now six-team OQIFC East Division became simply the OQIFC without a division appellation, the conference alignments were as follows:

OUAA: Guelph, Laurier, McMaster, Waterloo, Western, Toronto, Windsor and York;
OQIFC: Bishop's, Carleton, Concordia, McGill, Ottawa, and Queen's.

[argofandave]

I've been surfing the web trying to find oua football standings from that era but can't find any. However, I found Bryan Crawford's email address at the OUA office and asked him about it. I also found an article about McGill applying to play football in the OUA in 2013. With Carlton back for next year too, that would make 12 teams with a possibility of 2 - 6 team divisions.

[294life]

The record attendance for a Vanier Cup game is just under 33,000 back in 1989 at Skydome. Should have no trouble breaking it friday.

Having McMaster win would be hamilton's consolation prize but again Laval will not make it easy. I credit the Marauders for being able to play at Laval's level.

[294life]

I've been surfing the web trying to find oua football standings from that era but can't find any. However, I found Bryan Crawford's email address at the OUA office and asked him about it. I also found an article about McGill applying to play football in the OUA in 2013. With Carlton back for next year too, that would make 12 teams with a possibility of 2 - 6 team divisions.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bishop's and Concordia joined McGill. Sherbrooke,Montreal and Laval are just in a league of their own now.

[Argocister]

I wouldn't be surprised if Bishop's and Concordia joined McGill. Sherbrooke,Montreal and Laval are just in a league of their own now.

McGill was denied entrance to the OUA. So BU and Concordia won't be moving either. The English universities just have to get their act together. They have to get their administration out from making football decisions. They have to get solid coaching and then they can recruit better.BU is small and working on it..... Concordia ..... Perhaps making the team more attractive some say with better coaching..... McGill has made a step forward but for the size of their university I'm surprised they have been the biggest whiners. I really hope upon the RESQ getting together to address issues in the football arena, that they do not limit the bigger players.

[294life]

McGill is like U of A. They don't CARE. Their fame lies not in their fooball but in their academics. They're not interested in investing the way laval does. It used to be the most exciting and unexpected game would be the semi-final game that didn't have laval in it. Now it's been Montreal-Sherbrooke 3 years in a row. It's getting too predictable. And as someone in a previous post said, if McMaster and laval are really the only two powerhouses in the league then something needs to change.

[ArgoRavi]

Laval wins convincingly once again. This was the game everyone expected last year. Does anyone know how often Laval has won their conference over the last 15 years? It is a rare year when they aren't in the Vanier Cup.

[argolio]

Congrats to Laval. Piling up 600+ yards offense with a back going for well over 200 yards = almost total domination. And their 'D' was pretty dominating as well. The final score flattered Mac.

[294life]

Laval wins convincingly once again. This was the game everyone expected last year. Does anyone know how often Laval has won their conference over the last 15 years? It is a rare year when they aren't in the Vanier Cup.

They've won 10 straight Dunsmores. Won 6 times the Vanier in that period,lost twice and twice didn't reach the final.

Hamilton blows again.

Glad the attendance record was broken. Just over 37,000.

[Ron]

Loved the result. When the Mac QB got a TD on just a sneak and then went and acted all arrogant and superior in the endzone. I wished he never score another ... the arrogant jerk. Felt good to turn the game back on with 3 minutes left and see what transpired!

The bonus was to listen to them talk about he'll be a real potential CFL starter just as he lofts a floater and easy pick six to a Laval DB. Ha!

[ArgoRavi]

Loved the result. When the Mac QB got a TD on just a sneak and then went and acted all arrogant and superior in the endzone. I wished he never score another ... the arrogant jerk. Felt good to turn the game back on with 3 minutes left and see what transpired!

The bonus was to listen to them talk about he'll be a real potential CFL starter just as he lofts a floater and easy pick six to a Laval DB. Ha!

You really want OV after you, Ron.

[Gill The Thrill]

Loved the result. When the Mac QB got a TD on just a sneak and then went and acted all arrogant and superior in the endzone. I wished he never score another ... the arrogant jerk. Felt good to turn the game back on with 3 minutes left and see what transpired!

The bonus was to listen to them talk about he'll be a real potential CFL starter just as he lofts a floater and easy pick six to a Laval DB. Ha!

I was at the game, and wished McMaster did not do their best impersonation of the Tiger-Cats run defence for entertainment purposes...that was awful, but so was Quinlan at QB. He has no chance of playing in the CFL imo. I can't see him ever being #2, if even a #3 so how could he get on the field. His arm is frankly not strong enough. If Brad Sinopoli is having a hard time sticking on Calgary's roster and he's got a much better and accurate arm, their is no way Quinlan ever will.

As a matter of fact other QB's in recent years or in the last decade were much better and hardly got a sniff...Brannigan was better most recently, so was Tommy Dennison, Larry Jusdanis, Bob Torrance...going back several decades. Chris Flynn's arm was not powerful but his direction of an offence and his elusiveness as a rushing and scrambling QB made him much better overall than Quinlan and much more entertaining even in losing the Vanier Cup.

[Gill The Thrill]

You really want OV after you, Ron.

Ravi, OV maybe after him regarding the Canadian QB situation, but he'll be rightfully tooting his own horn over how Laval dominated a Canadian Football game by winning it on the strength of a solid and consistent running attack that could not be stopped. Mac's running game was non-existant which in hindsight means their defence of the Vanier Cup was over before the season when their leading rusher Chris Pezzetta was injured in pre-season. His loss was really felt yesterday, against a team that was obviously Mac's best opponent of the season.

As others have said on this thread, it would be nice if other teams develop to the level of these 2 programs...Mac caught Ottawa, Queens and Western in transition years and it's good that Guelph made huge strides...Just as in the CFL, it would be good for Canadian Football if the Toronto schools could get their act together. York had some close games this year beating a transitional Ottawa team. UofT is still further behind as they were still beaten badly several times this year, most unimpressively losing to Windsor 51-4 at Varsity....That's really unexcusable. I know York has changed coaches in recent years to get better results, has UofT done the same, and are they actively looking.

[ArgoRavi]

Ravi, OV maybe after him regarding the Canadian QB situation, but he'll be rightfully tooting his own horn over how Laval dominated a Canadian Football game by winning it on the strength of a solid and consistent running attack that could not be stopped. Mac's running game was non-existant which in hindsight means their defence of the Vanier Cup was over before the season when their leading rusher Chris Pezzetta was injured in pre-season. His loss was really felt yesterday, against a team that was obviously Mac's best opponent of the season.

As it has been said many a time on here though, it is much easier to run the football when you aren't behind.

[OV Argo]

Just FYI - Mac beat Laval last year with a fine balanced offence and a superior performance from Quinlan at QB (if you missed that game or want to dismiss it or what Quinlan accomplished this year with his outstanding QB play - then fine, but don't bother me with clueless drivel on the subject). This Vanier- Laval was superior with a very tough D and an offence that dominated with the run game - great back in Botin and a big, strong O-Line and smart play-calling too (yep - nice to see in Canadian football for a change) - and kudos to them for the outstanding football program they have established.

The naysayers and usual CFL standard party line / good ole boy defenders would be all over Quinlan looking for anything to cut him down and say he ain't CFL "calibre"; but he was harassed all game by a strong D and still put up some decent passing yardage and made a few nice runs. Sorry - he is a very good CIS QB - easily wayyyy better than Brannagan or any of the other top CIS QBs in the past decade or so who got zero real CFL chance, and IMO better than Sinopoli too (who i got to see play live a few times). Quinlan will not however get a real CFL shot - nor will any other Canadian QB - due to the make-up of CFL football decision makers who have zero respect for nor real interest in any Canadian QB - and it has nothing to do with "talent" or training or arm strength (anybody who thinks Ricky Ray has a gun for an arm and never floats the odd wide throw has no clue about football) or any of the other usual, cliched excuses to devalue Canadian QBs; meanhwile - the CFL good ole boys will contine to sign and give roster or playing time to just about any import QB they can drag up here (like the Bombers having on the roster and giving playing time to a Justin Glotz - Div. III US college ball QB) and any Canadian QB who might get a cursory look or maybe make a roster/PR will never be given a real shot to play (see Sinopoli).

I really like Duane Forde as a football commentator - but IMO he was being foolish or wishful thinking or dreaming in technicolor with those comments that Quinlan could get a shot to play in the CFL - he won't; so get a reality check Duane or at least have the guts to discuss the real main factor at work in this equation.

[ArgoRavi]

Duane Forde is rumoured to be a candidate for the Winnipeg assistant GM position so if he gets it perhaps he will convince Joe Mack to give Quinlan a shot.

[Gill The Thrill]

I'll dismiss a lot of Quinlan's accomplishments because he was playing against inferior defences....He also can't find the right receivers and make his proper checks. Many times on Friday, he threw into coverage and sometimes double coverage when he had an easier play to a receiver that was more open in the same side of the field. That's something that can't be coached. His tantrums are something he could do without, as he should know it will just make defences go after him harder knowing that he could be easily rattled with pressure.

I agree on the CFL good ole boys club. I'm sure Justin Goltz also did not see any better defences on avg playing Div III, but is he on a roster now. Do you ever think he'll really start. If you're talking about the QB position being exempt from CFL import/non-import roster rules to at least give teams an advantage for having a Canadian QB as a ratio breaker, giving Canadian QB's a level playing field equivalent to what other Canadian positional players get, then I'll also agree that the league's roster rules presently hinder against even attempting to develop a local Canadian QB.

Who said Ricky Ray does not float wide passes in timing patterns?...He does all the time, but he is also the most accurate with them compared to most QB's in any league. If you're trying to compare Quinlan to Ray, then I'm going to laugh at your face because Ray's delivery is much quicker and was quick right from the start of his carear in the league. Ray's quick realease was as good, probably better than Calvillo's in year 1 in the CFL...I remember watching Ray's passes in his first year, and my first thought was, "which NFL training camp will he be in next season,". I based that on how quickly he delivered a ball and with how accurate that ball was placed for his receivers. He's lost a little bit off his throws over the years, but he has enough veteran saavy to make up for that.

If Quinlan threw 30 OUA type passes in a CFL game, he'd be picked off at least 4 times because his quickness in delivery and accuracy is not there...at his age, I don't really know if he could get any better in those departments....I'll agree with you OV on this, he won't get the chance and experience to even get better if he has the potential because of the roster rules not involving the QB position in the ratio rules.

And Ravi....Mac was leading 14-12, so they did have a lead. They had no balanced attack, so the Rouge et Or knew they could pin their ears back and get after Quinlan since he had no running option as that Davis-hyphen-something whatever that Mac's RB name was had no speed to get outside whatsoever...he reminded me of Cory Boyd with his lack of a first move.

[OV Argo]

Gill - I enjoy reading your posts here, and we're all entitled to our opinions; so - i guess we'll have to agree to disagree on Quinlan and his skills/abilities as a QB.

But i can't resist commenting on what I see as a sort of underlying attitude or mindset towards the subject of Canadian QBs (and their CFL "chances") or maybe on Canadian football in general - that I find evident in your post and many others on the various CFL forums. Maybe a condescending approach or a Canadian inferiority complex thing that I find kinda sad or outright laughable at times but also so typcial and predictable.

I knew there would be those looking for anything to dismiss or cut-down Quinaln - a bad or wobbly throw or two, a bad read, an INT - would be just glaring evidence that he isn't any good, and certainly not worthy of a CFL shot; even after that fantastic performance last Vanier where he threw strikes all over the field and showed great mobilty and running to lead Mac to a championship, it would be easy to find any evidence to dismisss this guy as a very good QB.

Quinlan put up just outstanding passing numbers this season (close to 70% completion, scary good TD to INT ratio and plus ran for big QB yardage) in winning the Hec as the best player in all of CIS ball ... but wait, there must be a way to dismiss that - those stats don't suggest a good passing arm or QBs poise & smarts, well, er, because it was accomplished against "inferior" Canadian ball talent; so - he couldn't possibly tranlsate into a capable CFL player out of the lowly OUA - just like Foley or Jesse Lumsden or Fantuz couldn't either i guess (beleive me i read plenty of those laughable, crap-ola fan forum comments about Lumsden (would get killed in the CFL) or Fantuz (couldn't possibly get open against CFL defenders); the pre-determined notion that Canadian players are mostly inferior is demonstrated on so many CFL fan forums to the point that even the very best CIS players are often written-off as "not good enough"; yet when we see some of them get a real CFL shot (due to the CFL ratio - like it or not) they not only make rosters and contribute but are often amongst the best players in the league - NI or American (Fantuz led the entire CFL in receiving; Foley led the league in sacks; Lumsden - when healthy - put up some of the best RB numbers and play in decades). And BTW - this same type of attitude is often trotted out by the typical wannabes when discussing a top CFL player and his NFL chances - only did something in the lowly CFL = not NFL calibre; laughable and pathetic stuff IMO.

We might agree that Quinlan is not going to get a CFL shot - but maybe with differing emphasis on the main or underlying reason(s); I believe a lot of people understand and point out the ratio/roster rules thing (with QBs excluded); but I don't think a lot of people grasp the even bigger factor of deeply ingrained attitude, bias and ignorance that IMO exists within much of the CFL; and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

So while I certainly get that there are all sorts of opinons possible on individual players or any aspect of the game and league, I just have trouble with the pre-determined Canadian football is inferior attitude that shows up on so many comments - about CANADIAN football in it's OWN country. Really sad or pathetic IMO, but at the same time, so typical and predictable.

[294life]

There is talk that next year's Vanier might be held in Guelph.

[argofandave]

I've been surfing the web trying to find oua football standings from that era but can't find any. However, I found Bryan Crawford's email address at the OUA office and asked him about it. I also found an article about McGill applying to play football in the OUA in 2013. With Carlton back for next year too, that would make 12 teams with a possibility of 2 - 6 team divisions.

I got a reply from Bryan Crawford today and he found a list of Waterloo's game scores from the past but not the final standings. In 1978, a 7 game schedule was played and Waterloo (4-3) played twice against Guelph, McMaster, and York, and once against WLU. Waterloo lost to WLU in the playoffs. I assume that Waterloo was in a division with Guelph, McMaster, and York. The other division would be Windsor, Western, Laurier, and Toronto. Teams would play 2 games against other teams in their division and 1 game outside their division. I'm guessing that the 2nd place team in 1 division would play the 1st place team in the other division during the first round of the playoffs. This only happened for 1 season.