The Greatest Team That Never Won airs tonight - Thursday, November 22nd

[ArgoRavi]

I just wanted to remind everyone that the timely Engraved on a Nation documentary about the 1971 Argos titled "The Greatest Team That Never Won" airs tonight on TSN at 8 pm EST. I can't wait to see it!

[DanTheFan]

Taping it. I missed a few of these docs, but also taped the Calvillo one (I'll get around to it soon enough).

[ArgoRavi]

I am biased but I thought that this was the best documentary of the series.

[AngeloV]

It was a great piece. I had no idea that Leon Mcquay was that big a disruptive force amongst some of the dressing room (mind you I was only 3 at the time). Definitely the downfall of Leo. You can't give players the type of preferential treatment that he gave Leon.

[ArgoGabe22]

I am biased but I thought that this was the best documentary of the series.

As an amateur CFL historian with no bias I agree this was by far the best and I only watched the first 20 min. The worst one's imo were the Russ Jackson and the one on Edmonton but that's just my opinion. Looking back the 13th man one wasn't that bad, even though I criticized too.

[argotom]

It was awesome, the best of a very good series.

[argolio]

I enjoyed it a lot. Joe Theismann came across as a much more likeable person, probably because he was just one of the guys instead of his usual role of a broadcaster. Gene Mack was a star as usual. It was interesting to see the contrast in personalities between guys like Eben, Raimey, Thornton and Symons, and Peter Martin shined as master of ceremonies. And it was obvious they all still had a lot of respect for Leo Cahill.

This episode featured a couple of pictures from Mel Profit's 1972 book 'For Love, Money and Future Considerations', which might be the best football book ever.

We knew about McQuay's fumble and some of its aftereffects, but the big reveal was how disruptive he was, and how Leo believed in him so much as a player that he basically looked the other way. Did he do the right thing? I suppose yes in the short-term, no in the long-term, though most coaches generally don't worry past the next game.

[Captaincrunch]

The whole series has been outstanding, even though it would have been nice to see a mention of the 48 Stampeders team that went undefeated.

I'm hoping that they release it on DVD.

[Rich]

We knew about McQuay's fumble and some of its aftereffects, but the big reveal was how disruptive he was, and how Leo believed in him so much as a player that he basically looked the other way. Did he do the right thing? I suppose yes in the short-term, no in the long-term, though most coaches generally don't worry past the next game.

Ya, but even in the brief clips they showed, you could see the jaw-dropping talent McQuay had. I have heard some people say he may have belonged with the greatest RBs of all time anywhere in terms of talent, and since i saw him play, i would have to agree. I was surprised at the high quality of some of the tape of the 1971 season, would love to see more of it somehow, esp. since they have never shown the 1971 GC because the 4th quarter was only available on kinescope or film.

[jerrym]

Remembering the 1971 Grey Cup is always a bittersweet experience for me. To have such a star-laden talented team come so close and have it all go 'poof' has always been so frustrating, especially when they had not won since 1952 and did not win again until 1983.

[paulwoods13]

I was surprised at the high quality of some of the tape of the 1971 season, would love to see more of it somehow, esp. since they have never shown the 1971 GC because the 4th quarter was only available on kinescope or film.

I, too, would love to see more of the old footage. The problem with the 1971 Grey Cup appears to be that someone at one of the networks either erased or lost the videotape of the fourth quarter. Consequently, the version of that game that has made the rounds among collectors includes the complete game broadcast for three quarters, then the Grey Cup film, including stentorious narration and jazzy music, for the fourth quarter. That's why it has never been rebroadcast. If anyone ever finds a copy of the fourth quarter, there are a lot of fans who will be thrilled.

[zontar]

Mel Profit was conspicuoulsy absent, (was he at the home opener re-union ?) anyone heard why ?

[OV Argo]

Ya, but even in the brief clips they showed, you could see the jaw-dropping talent McQuay had. I have heard some people say he may have belonged with the greatest RBs of all time anywhere in terms of talent, and since i saw him play, i would have to agree. I was surprised at the high quality of some of the tape of the 1971 season, would love to see more of it somehow, esp. since they have never shown the 1971 GC because the 4th quarter was only available on kinescope or film.

Yeah - i was watching back then too - McQuay was a scary talent at RB - explosive combo of speed and power and good size; broke so many big gainers in that season; not sure about all-time great RB talent but maybe ( i need more long-term evidence to go by - just IMO); and a backfield combo of McQuay & Bill Symons = yikes - what ground game capability (back when it meant way more in the CFL game).

There's been so many : one spectacular type season - in sports over the years; that make you think that player will be a star for many years; but it doesn't always pan-out that way unfortunately; the Argos have had a few of those types - like McQuay. Another fave of mine was middle linebacker Sam Cvijanovich - who i thought was just superb in his rookie season of 74 - but he only lasted a couple of more seasons with the Argos and not much longer in the CFL period.

[gilthethrill]

I am really looking forward to this one......figures AV had no idea was disruptive....

[Argo]

I love the '71 Argos. What a collection of talent - and personalities - that team was!

Leon McQuay possessed uniquely spectacular, routinely jaw-dropping, moves. There's never been a back quite like him.

I haven't seen the documentary, but IIRC McQuay was signed during or just following his freshman year, so he was young and immature.

Leo Cahill (THE Coach of the Argonauts) made it all work: he realized that exceptional talent often arrives in a complicated, problematic bundle.

[argolio]

I haven't seen the documentary, but IIRC McQuay was signed during or just following his freshman year, so he was young and immature.

It was after his junior year.

[Ron]

Loved it. Also liked how Leo stuck to his stubborn self and proclaimed he was right treating McQuay that way and the others were just jealous of his talent. By far the best of the bunch as it really focused well on the topic. The plance crash one was a close 2nd. The Edmonton one was the lowest rated for me because they only covered 4 of the cups and spent all that time on politics. Sad because that was the one I most looked forward to.

[ArgoGabe22]

Talked to Symons, said "he was the shit" lol

[argofandave]

I have this copper tray that has an engraving of the Grey Cup on it and it has "Toronto Argonauts 1971 Grey Cup Winners" just below the engraving. I wish I had brought it to the autograph session at the home opener. Does anybody know anything about this tray? I bought it at a sports show in Toronto about 10 years ago. I also saw one on ebay about 3-4 years ago.

[Gill The Thrill]

Loved it. Also liked how Leo stuck to his stubborn self and proclaimed he was right treating McQuay that way and the others were just jealous of his talent. By far the best of the bunch as it really focused well on the topic. The plance crash one was a close 2nd. The Edmonton one was the lowest rated for me because they only covered 4 of the cups and spent all that time on politics. Sad because that was the one I most looked forward to.

Treating a kid special compared to your other players will ultimately lead to a team's demise and it did for this otherwise talented team. The team may have had comaraderie, but imagine how much more of a team they would have been if Leo laid down the law more fairly. I bet the players could see right through Leo when he'd say, "he has my permission to not be at practice,". It sent the wrong message, Cahill might as well have said, "he can do what he wants because you're all bums without him." For as good an evaluator of talent as Cahill was, he was stubborn as a mule, still saying to this day that he would not have changed a thing about how he handled McQuay.

I liked this doc, and the Calvillo one. I actually liked the connection of the Eskimos dynasty representing the provincialism of Alberta at that time vs the Eastern Federalists controlling the purse strings...that was a good take. It was a good segue in differentiating how the Eskimos did not just look for good players like the rest of the teams in the league, they looked for good football players that would make good Edmonton Eskimos and fit thier team concept as defined by Hugh Campbell. That's a real stark contrast with how Cahill managed the '71 Argos, giving too much rope which unfortunately caused him to take the fall when somebody slipped. The RCAF Hurricane story was very touching, especially the reaction from family members living today, when they heard the recorded voice of a loved one that was lost in WWII. I had no idea of Jake Gauder's personal lament as a trained fighter pilot for having been spared of going overseas.

My least favourite would be the 13th man. It was quirky, with information that was widely known about Rider Nation and the one about the 1958 plane crash. There were 4-5 CFL players from several different teams on that flight, and I thought it was too focused on only one of the victims. They could have also focused on the other CFL players and how the crash affected their families. The FLQ Grey Cup was not bad, but unlike the Eskimos dynasty episode, the political FLQ edits of bomb scares seemed a little out of place because they did not pertain to the preparation of the game during Grey Cup week..not bad though.