My thoughts are with the folks who lost children in the lastest US tragedy.

[T-Bone]

When tragic events like this happen the media starts the hype machine and people tend to react more often than not with emotion before fact, which is understandable. No matter which side of the fence you are on about gun control I think the majority agree that this was a horrible event and are angered by it. However once emotions settle we need to step back and start looking in to facts before making sweeping generalized statements. Gun control and crime is a complex issue and there is no clear cut answer to all the problems.

Perhaps some retired members on this forum, might have time to dig into this research further, if they want to.

You don't have to be retired to take a few minutes out of your day and use Google to do some quick research.

Criminals and crazies prey on defenseless people, in places where they know citizens are generally not armed.

If you start reading the many articles in the Google search above you will see that the current consensus is more research is needed to come up with a more accurate answer to whether places with concealed firearm permits have more or less firearm related crimes. Current stats show neither an increase nor a decrease.

No doubt we'll hear more calls from Obama and the left for gun control and registries.

It has always amazed me that some segments of our society are simply unable to grasp,

the simple fact that, criminals and crazies do not register their firearms.

Registries are only one form of firearm control and I agree with you that they do not work for the very reason you have stated. Criminals are not going to register illegally obtained firearms. That leaves legal firearm owners to register their weapons and the majority of them do not cause problems. That is one of the reasons that the Canadian goverment dismanteled the long-gun registry.

Yah it was the mother who owned those guns. It basically come down to way too many guns in the US. Those guns bought on the streets of Canada by gangbangers come from the States. It only takes one mentally ill person per day, week or month in the States to cause these horrific incidents. When does something click that too many guns are given away way to easily.

Luckily these types of mass murder shootings are rare. There are studies that show on a global scale that countries with stricter firearm control laws have less firearm related problems however like I said earlier there is not a clear cut answer to firearm control. Here is an article that I think does a good job of being objective.

I for one have just applied for my first passport ever. I have very little interest in heading tothe States. I watch plenty of US based police and jail based US reality shows. The First 48 happens to be my favorite based on real homicide detectives solving real murder cases. These shows make you think twice about that crazy country to the south. You's better mind your p's anf q's while traveling there because it only takes one nutter with a gun to cross your path. Seems like way too many guns under peoples shirts in the Good Old US or A.

Fear mongering is not the answer to this problem, if you don't want to travel to the US that is your choice. Not once have I ever felt unsafe in my travels to the US and I've been to NYC, Chicago, Vegas, LA, Columbus, Indianapolis, etc. I'm not afraid because I'm not involved in criminal activity. How often is a murder that is being investigated on the "First 48" a completely random victim? Murder is a personal crime the majority of the time and the perpetrator is usually known to the victim. People don't usually kill people for no reason and that is why events like these mass shootings get so much attention and are so shocking. Anyway I encourge people to more research on the subject and you maybe surprised at what you find.

[Midnight Blue]

When tragic events like this happen the media starts the hype machine and people tend to react more often than not with emotion before fact, which is understandable. No matter which side of the fence you are on about gun control I think the majority agree that this was a horrible event and are angered by it. However once emotions settle we need to step back and start looking in to facts before making sweeping generalized statements. Gun control and crime is a complex issue and there is no clear cut answer to all the problems.


You don't have to be retired to take a few minutes out of your day and use Google to do some quick research.



If you start reading the many articles in the Google search above you will see that the current consensus is more research is needed to come up with a more accurate answer to whether places with concealed firearm permits have more or less firearm related crimes. Current stats show neither an increase nor a decrease.


Registries are only one form of firearm control and I agree with you that they do not work for the very reason you have stated. Criminals are not going to register illegally obtained firearms. That leaves legal firearm owners to register their weapons and the majority of them do not cause problems. That is one of the reasons that the Canadian goverment dismanteled the long-gun registry.


Luckily these types of mass murder shootings are rare. There are studies that show on a global scale that countries with stricter firearm control laws have less firearm related problems however like I said earlier there is not a clear cut answer to firearm control. Here is an article that I think does a good job of being objective.


Fear mongering is not the answer to this problem, if you don't want to travel to the US that is your choice. Not once have I ever felt unsafe in my travels to the US and I've been to NYC, Chicago, Vegas, LA, Columbus, Indianapolis, etc. I'm not afraid because I'm not involved in criminal activity. How often is a murder that is being investigated on the "First 48" a completely random victim? Murder is a personal crime the majority of the time and the perpetrator is usually known to the victim. People don't usually kill people for no reason and that is why events like these mass shootings get so much attention and are so shocking. Anyway I encourge people to more research on the subject and you maybe surprised at what you find.

A very fair, very balanced, and very reasoned perspective, you have offered.

By the way, I would respectfully suggest, that it takes more than "a few minutes", to do proper research.

And "Google" (or Gaggle, as some of us call it) is not a reliable source for balanced views.

Gaggle is a company with an agenda, which is fine. All companies have agendas.

Gaggle tends to bury important stories that do not fit in with their views, several if not a dozen pages down the list.


But here is what has pissed a lot of us off:

Until a few years ago, Gaggle did not see fit to honour Remembrance Day in Canada, nor Veterans Day in The States. Sure, many obscure holidays and births of unknown people were awarded a special Gaggle commemoration, but apparently honouring Soldiers was not acceptable to them.

Readers can draw their own conclusions, as to Gaggle's political side of the spectrum.

Oh and it was only public pressure, and the shame heaped upon their company, that made Gaggle relent and begin to commemorate Remembrance/Veterans Day. No doubt for them, it then seemed like the politically correct thing to do.

[T-Bone]

By the way, I would respectfully suggest, that it takes more than "a few minutes", to do proper research.

And "Google" (or Gaggle, as some of us call it) is not a reliable source for balanced views.

Gaggle is a company with an agenda, which is fine. All companies have agendas.

Gaggle tends to bury important stories that do not fit in with their views, several if not a dozen pages down the list.

Fair enough but look at the articles in that search for an hour or so, there is a lot of information there. You can find lots of articles for varying viewpoints on Google. This isn't the first time I've looked in to firearm related violence. I did a project on it for a police foundations course I took a few years ago.

[Midnight Blue]

Fair enough but look at the articles in that search for an hour or so, there is a lot of information there. You can find lots of articles for varying viewpoints on Google. This isn't the first time I've looked in to firearm related violence. I did a project on it for a police foundations course I took a few years ago.

I'm sure that on the internet, as in political polling, and in real life, anyone can find any answers that fit in with their pre-conceived agendas.

But I meant it when I said that you presented a very fair, very balanced, and very reasoned perspective, in your other post above.

[shayman]

Gaggle tends to bury important stories that do not fit in with their views, several if not a dozen pages down the list.

No doubt you have evidence you will share with us of this odd claim.

[Midnight Blue]

No doubt you have evidence you will share with us of this odd claim.

These claims are self-evident, or at least they were several years ago. Who knows how much internet evidence has been "cleaned up".

Most people just "Google". Man-made global warming claims are given full play, whereas evidence that the warming is natural are given down page status. Attacks on Republicans are given front page, whereas negative things about Obama are hidden deep down. I don't have the time nor the interest to spend my free time digging for such well-known examples for you, nor do I have any intention to waste my time trying to convince you. I have found it to be a waste of time, trying to argue with lefties. A long time ago. I invite people to do their own research, and to draw their own conclusions.

So if you don't believe me, I find it preferable that you waste your time, doing the research, instead of me wasting mine.

We Conservatives are efficient, at protecting our free time, at keeping our (and your) taxes low, and at preserving respect for our Military.


Now, go take a flying ... er, I mean, have a nice day!


[Insert emoticon smile here.]


Cheers !

By the way, it pains me to have a disagreement with a member (perhaps the leader/conductor) of The Argonotes.

I really hope I don't end up stuffed inside a Tuba, going over Niagara Falls, for instance.

Whatever. We Kozaks don't care. We'll probably invent new schnorkel gear.


Ka 'Pla !

[shayman]

By the way, it pains me to have a disagreement with a member (perhaps the leader/conductor) of The Argonotes.


Ka 'Pla !

It's OK - I'm used to it! People in the band disagree with the leader all the time, usually over minor issues like "what piece is it we are supposed to be playing" or "how fast does it go".

[Midnight Blue]

It's OK - I'm used to it! People in the band disagree with the leader all the time, usually over minor issues like "what piece is it we are supposed to be playing" or "how fast does it go".

I had the same problem with the casual twins, before I met my latest cool Girlfriend.

If I may be so bold, I would suggest that you take full and utter control, and brook no contradiction, Sir.


Cheers !


(By the way, I played a one-valve horn in the RCAF Cadets, and a full trumpet in Grade 9 in High School. Now, I'm just into Kick-Ass Rock, and half-time Bands.)


Ka 'Pla !

[1argoholic]

In Sacramento we heard guns going off during the day while walking around which was a shocker. We went down to watch the Argos lose the same night Joe Carter hit his World Series winning homerun. Also a police officer on bike patrol told us to stay away from the area where we were talking to him at night. At night some fools were tossing pipe bombs on bums. I'll never forget those exact words. For those that don't think the US is more violent I'm not sure what you consider violent. I've never heard more sirens than in Sacramento. In Baltimore on another Argo trip, this time a bus trip we saw some eye openers. The big old highschool right across from Menorial Stadium was all borded up and just shut down because it was so messed up with violence is what we were told. Lori Bursey had met some folks that she was in touch with for years that had become Stallion fans and he would never head into downtown Baltimore without a gun because it was so violent. People travelling to the US have to have their wits about them because it isn't Canada.

[T-Bone]

So if you don't believe me, I find it preferable that you waste your time, doing the research, instead of me wasting mine.

I just want to point out that you made the claim so the burden of proof falls to you to prove it, not anyone else. If you don't want to provide proof that is your choice but it only weakens your position.

For those that don't think the US is more violent I'm not sure what you consider violent.

I don't believe anyone said the US doesn't suffer from more violent crime than Canada. However there are far more dangerous places to travel in the world than the US and people do with out incident.

People travelling to the US have to have their wits about them because it isn't Canada.

People travelling anywhere even with in Canada should have their wits about them, that's part of being a smart tourist. Any place you go is going to have safer areas and more dangerous areas and as a tourist it is your responsibility to read up on where you are travelling. If you are smart about things when you travel chances are you're not going to have issues. I wouldn't walk threw Central Park at midnight nor would I walk threw Jane and Finch. Also if you look at crime statistics for both the US and Canada they were more dangerous in the 70's and 80's than they are today.

[Ron]

I have a couple of neighbors that are cops. They tell me that Canadians would shit themselves if they knew how many guns were out there in our "gun free" country.

[1argoholic]

No doubt there are plenty of specially illegal guns on our streets. We've all seen what happens in gang wars in TO or Vancouver.

[argonaut11xx]

i agree...The Strictest possible GUN CONTROL laws are nessessary, and maybe Flouride in the water systems to turn the populace into sheep..just like they did in 1930 Germany, um...er...or is it the Canada of today?

Unfortunate events happen, unfortunately...gun control laws do NOT apply to criminals, nor do they stop mentally ill people from going on a rampage (see the greyhound bus beheading in winnipeg)

If someone SNAPS, they use whatever is at their disposal...and the criminal element...well see what Ron said above...

The situation in CT is very sad, God Bless all those family's

[Will]

No doubt there are plenty of specially illegal guns on our streets. We've all seen what happens in gang wars in TO or Vancouver.

TO or Vancouver? What about Montreal, ever since Don Vito got out there have been numerous shootings.

[argonaut11xx]

Michael Moore on Twitter: "If only the first victim, Adam Lanza's mother, had been a gun owner, she could have stopped this before it started."

What a STUPID insensitive comment by a man who staged many of his phoney so-called documentaries...this is not a time for Moores left wing spin, its a time for prayer, and heeling.

Micheal Moore would be eating his corn-on-the-cob, with no F*cking teeth if i got ahold of him after this stupid insensitive comment

[1argoholic]

I didn't include Montreal because when old school mob hits are done they hit who they wanted to hit. They don't spray a whole school yard with bullets. Too many guns and too many mellon heads in the US plain and simple.

[Midnight Blue]

I just want to point out that you made the claim so the burden of proof falls to you to prove it, not anyone else. If you don't want to provide proof that is your choice but it only weakens your position.

The first part of my proof is below, in bolded lettering:



And "Google" (or Gaggle, as some of us call it) is not a reliable source for balanced views.

Gaggle is a company with an agenda, which is fine. All companies have agendas.

Gaggle tends to bury important stories that do not fit in with their views, several if not a dozen pages down the list.


But here is what has pissed a lot of us off:

Until a few years ago, Gaggle did not see fit to honour Remembrance Day in Canada, nor Veterans Day in The States. Sure, many obscure holidays and births of unknown people were awarded a special Gaggle commemoration, but apparently honouring Soldiers was not acceptable to them.

Readers can draw their own conclusions, as to Gaggle's political side of the spectrum.

Oh and it was only public pressure, and the shame heaped upon their company, that made Gaggle relent and begin to commemorate Remembrance/Veterans Day. No doubt for them, it then seemed like the politically correct thing to do.


I have the links to further proof on my computer, and will dig them up, if the links haven't disappeared from the internet. I work for a living, and I also have a social life, so you may have to wait a bit until I find them. But this is a well-known phenomenon for Gaggle; they've been caught at it many times. I also don't have to prove that the Earth is round, so any attempts to bury me in research will prove futile. The above bolded, should at least convince some out there, that Gaggle follows a left-wing agenda.

[Midnight Blue]

Here are a couple of "Gaggle" examples --- I've seen several more, and will try to find them:


Link: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,331106,00.html

Link: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/a...-shuts-do.html


Any readers out there interested, can research this for themselves. I suggest you use Yahoo, or some other non-Gaggle search engine, to do an internet search.

Cheers !

[294life]

What a STUPID insensitive comment by a man who staged many of his phoney so-called documentaries...this is not a time for Moores left wing spin, its a time for prayer, and heeling.

Micheal Moore would be eating his corn-on-the-cob, with no F*cking teeth if i got ahold of him after this stupid insensitive comment

Couldn't have said it better.

[294life]

I didn't include Montreal because when old school mob hits are done they hit who they wanted to hit. They don't spray a whole school yard with bullets. Too many guns and too many mellon heads in the US plain and simple.

not even the hells angels would pull something like this.

Looks like this story is pretty much wrapped up. autism seems to be left aside as this is an isolated case with the focus being more on better gun control. just hope this doesn't happen again. bad for the autism community's image.