Argos Stadium Update

[Will]

I think the reason for it is because the majority of these same fans that follow these teams would love to see the Argos (and the CFL) fold so that they can get an NFL franchise here. I never had a problem with any teams in this city until the majority of the US envious crowds that attend Jays and Raptors games, decided that we needed an NFL team here and to hell with the "minor league" (their words not mine) football league we have here.

For the few that support all the city's teams (including the Argos) I would feel bad for them. Unfortunately, they are truly in the minority.

So it's the fans and not the individual sports themselves?

[1argoholic]

I agree with AngeloV. I'd say it's a combination for me. Plus the horrible way Rogers has treated the Argos.

[argotom]

I agree with AngeloV. I'd say it's a combination for me. Plus the horrible way Rogers has treated the Argos.

Yes #1 the Rogers factor far and away is the number 1 reason for most of us to dislike anything affiliated with same.
To include their primary business, cell phones and cable.

[Ron]

Ron, out of curiousity, were you in Toronto back in the early 70's when the Canadian Government blocked the WFL Toronto Northmen franchise from coming to Toronto to protect the Argos/CFL?

Sounds like things were different back in those days in regards to how the Argos & CFL were viewed.

Canada was just more "culturally protectionist" back then. But in general the public seemed happy the gov stepped in to protect the CFL. But we all know the Argos were a bigger deal back then.

[Ron]

And people also forget ... as bad as Rogers treats the Argos lately ... it's still leaps and bounds better than Sportsco did.

Still. It always come down to one simple fact. The Argos are just a tenant. They are a tenant that does not have the general public support or MONEY from ownership that has actually succeeded in doing what was needed to change that.

This franchise has a history of expecting others to cater to their interests and for others to foot the bill. There seems to be little to no culpability or responsibility taken for their actions that have them where they sit today.

Oh ... and for those who really want the Argos to have their own stadium? The last people you should ever be critical of is the Skydome or their owners. (In this case Rogers) The more comfortable the Argos are at Skydome the longer they will stay there. So many of you anti-Rogers guys are actually being anti-yourselves.

[ArgoRavi]

And people also forget ... as bad as Rogers treats the Argos lately ... it's still leaps and bounds better than Sportsco did.

I don't remember the Argos having this much trouble securing dates when Sportsco owned the SkyDome. Yes, the Wiggles thing happened during their watch but they did not seem to have the low availability of dates that they do now.

[Mulder]

I don't remember the Argos having this much trouble securing dates when Sportsco owned the SkyDome. Yes, the Wiggles thing happened during their watch but they did not seem to have the low availability of dates that they do now.

Stadium turf being the biggest thing here. It used to be that they just roll over the Argo playing field didn't it?

[Will]

That is right Steve, if you watch the 1993 World Series you can see the football lines sometimes.

[matchuk]

Same Boat. I would love to see them spend all this money on this team and totally flop this season with the same amount of attendance at the past few seasons.

All the "hype" is coming from Rogers owned media....I wonder why.

if you are watching any espn at all, they are talking lots about the jays as well, ranking them the 2nd or 3rd best rotation in the majors, also giving them the 5th best odds to win the world series....rogers obviously does not own espn

^^^ This

It's not so much that we want the jays to fail it's just that we expect them to and want to be proven otherwise.

of course the same isnt said about the leafs right? it just seems that quite a few argos fans specifically hate the jays...i dislike rogers as much as the next guy, but dont "blame" the jays for the argos mistreatment....i dont see many argos fans hating the leafs, even though they are overpaid, and dont win championships either...

Yes #1 the Rogers factor far and away is the number 1 reason for most of us to dislike anything affiliated with same.
To include their primary business, cell phones and cable.

but im sure these people that hate the jays still use rogers internet, cell phone and/or home phone services...they decide to hate a sports team based on their affiliation, but will refuse to boycott their services...

[argofandave]

The success of the Jays is the number one reason people lost interest in the Argos. Basically, with most of the CFL and MLB seasons overlapping, people that used to go to Argo games started to go to Jay games instead. This started in 1985 when the Jays had a great season and went on to the post season for the first time and the Argos had a lousy season and missed the playoffs. When SkyDome opened in 1989, that is when I realized how much a successful Jays team hurts the Argos and I've hated the Jays ever since. It was the success of the Jays which turned the city into the "if it's not major league, it's not worth supporting mentality."

[argotom]

but im sure these people that hate the jays still use rogers internet, cell phone and/or home phone services...they decide to hate a sports team based on their affiliation, but will refuse to boycott their services...

Not true, I cancelled Rogers cell phone and cable TV years back for this reason and also for the same reason The Toronto Star.
I encourage more Argo and CFL fans to do the same.

[AngeloV]

of course the same isnt said about the leafs right? it just seems that quite a few argos fans specifically hate the jays...i dislike rogers as much as the next guy, but dont "blame" the jays for the argos mistreatment....i dont see many argos fans hating the leafs, even though they are overpaid, and dont win championships either...

That's because the Argos never had attendance issues when it was just them and the Leafs in this city. Bring on MLB and the NBA, and you have all the people in this city forgetting that we are Canadian and demanding the NFL to cap off their 4 "major" sports teams fixes.

[1argoholic]

Shame so many in the GTA are lame followers. I say plenty of bad things about this area but I always get good comments on my Argo merch from other CFL fans.

[ArgoRavi]

The success of the Jays is the number one reason people lost interest in the Argos. Basically, with most of the CFL and MLB seasons overlapping, people that used to go to Argo games started to go to Jay games instead. This started in 1985 when the Jays had a great season and went on to the post season for the first time and the Argos had a lousy season and missed the playoffs. When SkyDome opened in 1989, that is when I realized how much a successful Jays team hurts the Argos and I've hated the Jays ever since. It was the success of the Jays which turned the city into the "if it's not major league, it's not worth supporting mentality."

It is nice to see that I wasn't alone in my thinking back in the mid to late 1980s. I was actually a Jays fan until the end of the 1985 season and was disappointed when they blew their 3-1 ALCS lead to KC that year. By 1987, however, I was anything but depressed when they had their epic collapse during the final week of that season. By 1997-98 it got to the point where I wasn't feeling quite as negative about them but with the likes of Paul Godfrey and the Rogers folks involved with that franchise over the last decade or so it has been very easy to dislike that team again.

There is little question in my mind that there is a relationship between the rise of the Jays from 1983-88 and the decline of the Argos during those same years. Yes, the Argos and the CFL did not help themselves much during that time but I truly believe that the Argos simply lost a lot of casual fans to the Jays during that period. Many in the media during that time even said how facing Hamilton and Saskatchewan just wasn't as sexy as facing "world-class" cities such as New York and Chicago.

Another thing that ticked me off is that the Argos weren't even the ones who got to close Exhibition Stadium as was originally supposed to be the case. And, of course, the Jays and not the Argos got to open SkyDome in June of 1989. What particularly saddens me is that the SkyDome was pretty much born on Grey Cup Sunday of 1982 when the Argos lost in a rain-soaked Exhibition Stadium but the Argos have been second-class citizens, at best, in that stadium since it opened.

[RoRoYoBoat]

The Argos need 25 000 good paying loyal fans every game and half a dozen sponsors. That's all. After that you just ride the wave. The golden age of the unlimited money supply is coming to an end...

[LLB997]

There is a lot of Star Trek fans vs. Star Wars fans crap yet I enjoy both.

This forum is nerdy enough, let's not go there. ;]

[T-Bone]

The Argos need 25 000 good paying loyal fans every game and half a dozen sponsors. That's all. After that you just ride the wave. The golden age of the unlimited money supply is coming to an end...

You've made a very good point. 25,000 paying costumers per game would be enough to make the team financially stable. 25,000 is less than 1% of the population of the GTA and yet we have teams struggling with attendance. You can play the blame game all day but it is not going to help fill the building. How can we not get less than 1% of the population to show up at sporting events? That is a sad statement about this city.

[mchesher03]

you draw 25k no problem in a decent stadium around that size IMO. Look at TFC in previous years (not so much now) - what % of fans were there for the atmosphere almost as much as the game?

It's a lot more fun to be loud for the defence, etc. when it actually makes a difference - hard to say that's the case when we have 20k inside the Dome right now which is too bad cause IMO once it's up to the high 20K's in attendance there i dont think the atmosphere is that bad.

[Will]

Here's another question: do you think Argos attendance would go back to the way it was if the Blue Jays, Raptors and Toronto FC packed their bags for the United States?

[argofandave]

Here's another question: do you think Argos attendance would go back to the way it was if the Blue Jays, Raptors and Toronto FC packed their bags for the United States?

The Argo attendance will never go back to the way it was but having the Jays, Raptors, and TFC move out of Toronto would help the Argos a lot. All that money spent on tickets for those teams will now be available. Perhaps all those people that only go the Jays games will now consider going to Argos games instead. More sponsor money will also be available. I remember when the Raptors first started, two of the Argos biggest sponsors at the time (Ford and Sears) dropped the Argos and signed with the Raptors.