Hogan on David Lee and Joel Reinders

[bluto]

http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=4248...ce=twitterfeed

You're only as good as your Canadian talent.In the CFL that axiom rings true more often than not. It's imperative that teams maximize every opportunity to acquire quality non-imports and if they can find someone who can start at a non-traditional Canadian position he's worth his weight in gold. The Argos are hoping two relatively low-profile players can increase their value this year.

David Lee's progression has been nothing short of phenomenal. His name wasn't called in the 2012 CFL Draft and it didn't exactly cause a lot of excitement when the Western product signed as a free agent in late May. By the end of the season Lee's play had made Ricky Foley expendable, but in the meantime the student had absorbed ample information from the mentor.

"I really learned that even though you're a Canadian, even though you may not have as many years of experience, if you're athletic, if you're dedicated and you work hard you can get a chance to succeed".

Lee worked his way onto the roster and eventually found himself getting more and more game action as the season wore on. By the end of the year he found himself playing in the Grey Cup game and contributing as more than just a guy with non-import status. That progression isn't lost on Head Coach Scott Milanovich.

"David did a great job last year. He's one of those guys who's always in the right place, always overachieving".

Being positionally sound is a tremendous advantage for a young player trying to make an impact. Lee devoured the playbook of Defensive Coordinator Chris Jones and took to it like a bear to honey.
"Chris' system is actually pretty intuitive. He teaches the whole system so you learn everything, so on the fly I can drop off and do someone else's responsibility. This has actually been one of the systems that's been easier for me because it's very logical".

Logic would dictate that another relative newcomer would eventually be able to contribute to the Argos. Joel Reinders is a mountain of a man who is only entering his fifth season of competitive football. He enrolled at the University of Waterloo as a basketball player, but converted to football, a sport he had never played before, in 2008.

Reinders went from Waterloo to the NFL. After trying his hand at four-down football Reinders headed north and joined the Argos last August. He spent most of the season on the practice roster before getting a chance to play in the final regular-season game. He also would dress for Toronto's three playoff games. At 6'8", 315 pounds the Oakville native is imposing off the field, but now wants to make that same impact between the lines.

"I've got a little more experience with the half season last year so I know the playbook."

Now it's up to the coaching staff to determine not only when, but where Reinders fits into the lineup, a question Milanovich and company are doing their best to resolve.

"We're still trying to figure out where Joel is going to fit best, whether it's guard or tackle. He made a good transition last year and he played pretty well in week 18. I'm looking forward to seeing him play (in next week's pre-season game in Winnipeg) because he's going to get a lot of playing time".

Reinders' versatility will help him over the course of his career, but learning multiple positions didn't come easily.

"I was originally more comfortable at tackle because that's all I had played" Reinders told TSN.ca. "I was very uncomfortable at guard to start, but I played a lot inside last year, essentially in the playoffs and Grey Cup, but right now I've adapted to all three spots; tight end, guard and tackle".

The 25-year-old will be hard to keep off the roster if he performs well in the club's two pre-season games.

Notes: Milanovich gave his players a bit of a break on Wednesday. After three consecutive two-a-days he had just one on-field session. "The fourth day of two-a-days can be tough and they've been working hard so we're going to try to bring their legs back a little". The Argos had a similar camp schedule a year ago. It also helped that the pace of the first six practices was great, but Milanovich joked "If the tempo changes this will never happen again"...Centre Jeff Keeping was back Wednesday after missing two days with a minor leg injury...The head coach said he was most happy with "the lack of busts" by the offence so far. He said a lot of things need work. "We're getting into more difficult blitzes and how we're going to protect those"...Among those in attendance today was long-time kicker Noel Prefontaine, who was not re-signed by the Argos after the Grey Cup win...The team's annual Double Blue Game will be held at their Erindale facility this Saturday at 1:30pm. Admission is free.

[Wobbler]

It's nice to read that Reinders is still a possibility at tackle. We haven't had anyone to seriously challenge Van Zeyl in a while.

[OV Argo]

It's nice to read that Reinders is still a possibility at tackle. We haven't had anyone to seriously challenge Van Zeyl in a while.

Tyler Holmes (when/if) and Matt Sewell, might have something to say, next year anyways - about challenging for either starting OT job; maybe Reinders can this year - or else is a decent back-up at either OG or OT.


Be very interesting to see how much Lee gets to play this season - DE should be wide-open.

[Argo57]

Would be nice to see an All-Canadian offensive line again, definitely by next season.
Encouraged by the progress the defence seems to be making in camp so far!!!

[Wobbler]

No chance by next season, I'd say. Even if everyone shows up, Holmes would need time to adapt to the CFL and Sewell is pretty raw by most accounts. It's something we should certainly work towards, though.

[OV Argo]

No chance by next season, I'd say. Even if everyone shows up, Holmes would need time to adapt to the CFL and Sewell is pretty raw by most accounts. It's something we should certainly work towards, though.

??? - you make it sound like those 2 guys would be competing against proven CFL all-stars for starting jobs; not the case obviously; Van Zeyl is a vet and solid i guess (?); Washington was a raw rookie with little experience before he got the job last year; Holmes & Sewell grew up playing Canadian ball - Holmes has some NFL roster experience and Sewell is huge and a CIS all-star who played on an O-line that helped a team to 2 straight national title games; and anyways - if Washington progresses and is very strong at OT - there is ZERO reason to replace him for the sake of going "all-canadian" at O-Line. Real TC competition with lots of good candidates - at OT, or any position - would be nice though.

[argolio]

Real TC competition with lots of good candidates - at OT, or any position - would be nice though.

That's not what's going on now?

[Midnight Blue]

That's not what's going on now?

No. It's only Week 1. The first three days were "hugs and kisses" and appreciate last year's Grey Cup days.

Followed by Wednesday's "let's all cuddle and fawn all over Mr. Michael 'Pinball' Clemons our Hero" Day.

Thursday some real work began, but it was only "let's pat butts and get to know each other" Day.


Don't you know anything about Football?


A new team has to bond first.

Games Bond.


The nitty gritty begins today, Friday.


Ka' Pla !



EDIT : For any newer readers here, I just wanted to say, that all of us here have the greatest respect and admiration, for Mr. Clemons. I'm sure he loved the humour. But such a Day would be appropriate.


Ka' Pla !

[paulwoods13]

No chance by next season, I'd say. Even if everyone shows up, Holmes would need time to adapt to the CFL and Sewell is pretty raw by most accounts. It's something we should certainly work towards, though.

We don't need either Sewell or Holmes to start to have an all-Cdn line. All we need is Reinders to develop into a starting tackle, to go with the guys we started last year in the GC (Eppele, Kepping, Parenteau and VZ). It could certainly happen by next season, and it's not out of the realm of possibility for this season, IMO. Wayne Smith might be able to edge out Parenteau for one guard spot.

[Wobbler]

All we need is Reinders to develop into a starting tackle, to go with the guys we started last year in the GC (Eppele, Kepping, Parenteau and VZ).

I don't think it is realistic to expect a guy who is considered a "possible" tackle by our staff to become our starting LT in the near future. Could CVZ switch to the left side? I don't think he's ever done so...

[paulwoods13]

I don't think it is realistic to expect a guy who is considered a "possible" tackle by our staff to become our starting LT in the near future. Could CVZ switch to the left side? I don't think he's ever done so...

I don't know precisely what the coaches have said about Reinders, but I bet he will see a lot of PT in the preseason. Could he become a starting left tackle this year? That may be a longshot, but let's see how he does on the field. I certainly don't see why he couldn't start by next year, by which time he will have a season and a half of pro experience. He has the size and physical tools to develop into a starter -- whether or not he achieves his potential is largely up to him. But at this point he is farther along in his development and starting potential than Sewell or Holmes.

I would not move VZ to the left side -- he has excelled at RT and that's a big switch to make at this stage of his career. Better to go with an import at LT until some NI grabs the job.

[Wobbler]

As I said before, I think it is unlikely that Reinders is our starting LT in 2014. I sincerely hope that he proves me wrong, though!

[OV Argo]

I don't know precisely what the coaches have said about Reinders, but I bet he will see a lot of PT in the preseason. Could he become a starting left tackle this year? That may be a longshot, but let's see how he does on the field. I certainly don't see why he couldn't start by next year, by which time he will have a season and a half of pro experience. He has the size and physical tools to develop into a starter -- whether or not he achieves his potential is largely up to him. But at this point he is farther along in his development and starting potential than Sewell or Holmes.

I would not move VZ to the left side -- he has excelled at RT and that's a big switch to make at this stage of his career. Better to go with an import at LT until some NI grabs the job.

I don't agree, at all, on Reinders vs. the likes of Holmes of Sewell; Reinders only played a bit in CIS ball and went to some NFL camps (tried at D-line in the first one i believe), and now has played just a bit, at guard for the Argos; Holmes was a multi year starter in Div. I US college ball, and now has a year of NFL roster experience; and Sewell was a mutli year starter and several time all-star OT at a top CIS program at Mac; in terms of actual football playing time and game experience, both those guys are probably well ahead of Reinders - who would have the experience with the Argos offence and line calls going for him; but unless he plays lots at OT this year, I'd bet both Holmes and Sewell are more accomplihsed at OT.

However, be nice to have all 3 on the roster and battlinng for playing time and providing good depth.

[doubleblue]

So how does everyone grade the Canadian talent on the O-Line? I like Van Zeyl at RT, Eppele at LG, Keeping or Parenteau at C and Parenteau or Reinders at RG. To me that leaves Smith and Jones on the bubble. When and if Holmes arrives we will see where he fits in. However, maybe the possibility exists that Milanovich and Co. decide one of the new imports like King would give Ricky more protection and start two imports on the O-Line. Providing Black can start at safety they could probably make it work. Ricky doesn't need a host of import wide outs running around on every play, he just needs time. Three on the O-Line, SB, WR, FB/WR, DE and S would give them 8 Canadian Starters. They could also probably get by with a Canadian at MLB if they had to. So they could easily start 2 imports on the O-Line IMO. Got to keep Ricky up right.

[Argocister]

For what it's worth.... I think the 3 penciled in spots on the O-line would be RT VanZeyl, C Keeping, G Eppele..... Eppele played both right and left guard last year, which is great that he's flexible .....
Depending on their health the next two would be Parenteau and Smith . I believe both these guys are flexible in their positioning . I wouldn't pencil in Reinders as a starter yet, unless he has proved himself in TC, but he hasn't played in many games yet. Definitely in back up . If Smith is healthy he may take over LT again, although I liked Washington last year. Similarly, if Parenteau is healthy he may be the one playing the opposite guard to Eppele.
I also like that we have a good number of OL in training, as you never know what injuries bring in the season. Having an OLineman step in that knows the offense is super.

[OV Argo]

So how does everyone grade the Canadian talent on the O-Line? I like Van Zeyl at RT, Eppele at LG, Keeping or Parenteau at C and Parenteau or Reinders at RG. To me that leaves Smith and Jones on the bubble. When and if Holmes arrives we will see where he fits in. However, maybe the possibility exists that Milanovich and Co. decide one of the new imports like King would give Ricky more protection and start two imports on the O-Line. Providing Black can start at safety they could probably make it work. Ricky doesn't need a host of import wide outs running around on every play, he just needs time. Three on the O-Line, SB, WR, FB/WR, DE and S would give them 8 Canadian Starters. They could also probably get by with a Canadian at MLB if they had to. So they could easily start 2 imports on the O-Line IMO. Got to keep Ricky up right.

You're making the typical assumption that any import player in camp must be a bona fide starter and woe, if only they could get him in to the line-up; that would be great if a new import OT was some amazing talent superstar who never allowed a pass rusher to get near the QB, but god luck finding one of those guys - worth trying though and if another import does grade out very well at OT, they should be able to go with 2 import OTs, IMO. There won't be 3 NIs in the 5 pack like you are suggesting is possible though (though it is possible in theory - 2 of Watt, Bradwell and Feoli-Gudino could have outstanding camps) - could be 3 interior NIs on the O-line, + Durie + a WR; and then only 2 needed on D - Lee & Black perhaps or Yurichcuk or Reid/Lang = lotsof possibilities.

[argotom]

I read in the Sun from Frank Zicarelli how Reinders had a poor game in the Peg.

[AngeloV]

I read in the Sun from Frank Zicarelli how Reinders had a poor game in the Peg.

I think I'll take Annunziata's word over Zicarelli's.

[doubleblue]

Anybody know if Joel Reinders is too injured to play or the Coaches just don't believe he is ready. He looks to be ok walking around the sidelines on game days. I really thought he would be next up when Parenteau was sent to Winnipeg. Now they have brought in Kyle Koch to dress as a backup. Koch has playing experience at Guard and last year as Center for Edmonton. Maybe I answered my own question. Argos needed a backup Center with Wayne Smith being able to fill in at Guard or Tackle. I guess the fact the Reinders was given a look in the NFL made me think he was better than maybe he is. But he has the size and foot work to eventually make it somewhere, Guard or Tackle, in the CFL if not with the Argos. Hopefully he doesn't get discouraged waiting.

[paulwoods13]

Anybody know if Joel Reinders is too injured to play or the Coaches just don't believe he is ready. He looks to be ok walking around the sidelines on game days. I really thought he would be next up when Parenteau was sent to Winnipeg. Now they have brought in Kyle Koch to dress as a backup. Koch has playing experience at Guard and last year as Center for Edmonton. Maybe I answered my own question. Argos needed a backup Center with Wayne Smith being able to fill in at Guard or Tackle. I guess the fact the Reinders was given a look in the NFL made me think he was better than maybe he is. But he has the size and foot work to eventually make it somewhere, Guard or Tackle, in the CFL if not with the Argos. Hopefully he doesn't get discouraged waiting.

I'm sure Koch is on the roster because he can play centre. I think Reinders remains a project, given his lack of of football experience. By this time next year he will either be starting or gone, probably.