Will Cornish And Harris Set A Historic Record?

**paulwoods13** · 10-14-2013, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by AngeloV

Great research Paul. Pretty sure this is the result of the bigger rosters and the clock ticking these days while teams are allowed to make player substitutions. I love sometimes watching those old games from the 60's, seeing how fast teams broke the huddle and literally ran to the line of scrimmage to put the ball in play. Admittedly though, I don't believe there was many if any QB audibles back then as the ball always seemed to be snapped on a quick count.

I agree that those two issues -- especially the change to clock rules -- are the most likely cause of this change. As I've written before, in the 1980s both teams typically ran 55 to 65 offensive plays in a game. Now it is not unheard of for teams to run as few as 45, and as many as 55 is fairly rare. That's anywhere from 10 to 40 fewer offensive plays in a game. I plan to someday do additional research on this, and try to find out precisely when -- and why -- clock rules were changed to allow the game clock to keep running before the 20-second clock started, and during converts. My suspicion is that it is a result of coaches demanding more time to make situation substitutions, and the relaxed TV regulations rules that allowed networks to show many more minutes of commercials per hour. In order to accommodate all the TV timeouts and not have games run 3.5-4 hours, the clock had to be left running.

A lot of people think the CFL is a much faster-paced game than the NFL, with the 20-second clock compared to the NFL's 45, but I've watched the clock at times during Argo home games and it's very common for there to be 40-45 seconds of game clock between the end of one play and the next snap. And I note that the Patriots actually ran off 91 plays in a regulation-time game last season, thanks to their constant no-huddle offence. I would really, really like to see CFL teams start doing this -- the more plays, the better.

End of rant.

**OV Argo** · 10-14-2013, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

I believe that the Lou Marsh award is administered by the Toronto Star, OV, while there is also a Canadian Press male athlete of the year award. You are right that these awards were once won by Canadian CFL players. IIRC, Tony Gabriel might have won one of these awards back in the mid 1970s but he would have been the last one to do so. It seems as though facing Canadian-based opposition only is seen as a black mark against CFL players by much of the Canadian sports media unfortunately although, in all fairness, we haven't had many Canadians win the MOP award since the mid 1970s either. Cornish is such a dominant player in the CFL though that he should get some serious consideration IMO.

There's the Lou Marsh (edit - male of female) and also the Lionel Conacher (CP voting) awards for Canadian male athlete of the year - and the last Canadian football player to win one of these was Russ Jackson (who won both) way back in 1969; and meanwhile, Mike Weir wins 3 or so of these for winning one major tournament in the oh so athletic sport of golf ???

You got it right Ravi - the lowest common denominator lemmings in the media do not recognize Canadian football players cause it's only in Canada - pity, er, pathetic, eh? But they fawn all over any Canadian "athlete" who has accomplished next to anything in the States or on the "world class" stage.

**ArgoRavi** · 10-17-2013, 05:56 PM

Matt Cauz makes the case for Cornish winning the Lou Marsh: http://www.cfl.ca/article/cauz-why-j...u-marsh-trophy

**jerrym** · 10-26-2013, 07:32 PM

After gaining 76 yards against Edmonton after quite a host of recent games where Andrew Harris was averaging roughly 35 yards a game, Harris has an outside chance of reaching 1,000 yards this season. He currently has 896 yards; so, he would need 104 yards in the final game to reach this mark, assuming he is given the chance to play in what could turn out to be a meaningless game in terms of the standings. If he were to reach 1,000 yards, it would be the first time in CFL history that two Canadian running backs reached 1,000 yards in consecutive seasons.

**OV Argo** · 10-31-2013, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by jerrym

After gaining 76 yards against Edmonton after quite a host of recent games where Andrew Harris was averaging roughly 35 yards a game, Harris has an outside chance of reaching 1,000 yards this season. He currently has 896 yards; so, he would need 104 yards in the final game to reach this mark, assuming he is given the chance to play in what could turn out to be a meaningless game in terms of the standings. If he were to reach 1,000 yards, it would be the first time in CFL history that two Canadian running backs reached 1,000 yards in consecutive seasons.

18 game seasons now skew the stats.

And Harris has basically been replaced as a full-time starting RB for the Lions with them getting Stefan Logan back (an awesome talent suited for the CFL IMO); and the Lions offensive thinkers don't have much use for a real run game - Harris might be a thousand yard back on some other CFL teams. Jerome Messam could be another NI CFL 1000 yard back on a CFL team that appreciates a consistent power run game - no such animal though.

**jerrym** · 11-01-2013, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by OV Argo

18 game seasons now skew the stats.

Originally Posted by OV Argo

And Harris has basically been replaced as a full-time starting RB for the Lions with them getting Stefan Logan back (an awesome talent suited for the CFL IMO); and the Lions offensive thinkers don't have much use for a real run game - Harris might be a thousand yard back on some other CFL teams. Jerome Messam could be another NI CFL 1000 yard back on a CFL team that appreciates a consistent power run game - no such animal though.

As noted in previous posts comparing players' records in different eras is all but pointless. While playing 18 games skews the stats, comparing this an era when rushing was the dominant form of attack, many more Canadians and fewer Americans played, plays per team totals in the 90 range versus around 55 today, and rushing yards that could be gained by crawling versus the play ending as soon as a knee touches the ground in the 1950s when Kwong was dominant, to mention just a few, skewed the stats in the opposite direction compared to today's game. Harris still ranks third in the league in rushing and third in the league in yards gained from scrimmage going into the final game of the season. Pretty impressive on a team that did not put much emphasis on the run for a substantial part of the season.

**OV Argo** · 11-01-2013, 10:16 PM

Originally Posted by jerrym

As noted in previous posts comparing players' records in different eras is all but pointless. While playing 18 games skews the stats, comparing this an era when rushing was the dominant form of attack, many more Canadians and fewer Americans played, plays per team totals in the 90 range versus around 55 today, and rushing yards that could be gained by crawling versus the play ending as soon as a knee touches the ground in the 1950s when Kwong was dominant, to mention just a few, skewed the stats in the opposite direction compared to today's game. Harris still ranks third in the league in rushing and third in the league in yards gained from scrimmage going into the final game of the season. Pretty impressive on a team that did not put much emphasis on the run for a substantial part of the season.

? - i hope you get or appreciate - that when talking offensive stats - yardage - rushing, receiving or passing - it's obviously wayyyyyyyyyyy easier to have bigger numbers or get to 1000 yards now, then it was in the days of 16 game (or 14 in the old East) schedules ? Guys crawled for extra yardage in old days so that skewed the stats there? - are you serious? And most CFL teams had real 2 back attacks (a fullback could get lots of carries) to split the ground game up - diversity - lost in today's CFL limited offensive thinking - so it wasn't just one main RB who got all the carries.

I agree with you however if you're trying to say Harris is a real impressive RB - but he plays in a very limited modern CFL offence that has little use for a real run game. And Cornish (NCAA star tailback), Harris (out of Junior ball) and Messam (played at lower levels of US college ball and went undrafted in the CFL) - different backgrounds but are all very good examples of top notch Canadian RB talent - no surprise at all to me that when given CFL chances they have shone. And there have been / are other top Canadian RBs out there (Lapointe and Lumsden to name a couple - both best in league type talents IMO when they got to play, plus others who were NOT given any (Sebastien Levesque for example) or little (Darryl Stephenson for example) CFL chances) - not a lot of whom get real CFL opportunity = we coulda seen more 1000 yard Canadian backs over the years but their birth certificates and the homgenous, limited look of CFL offensive "thinking" mitigates there.

**jerrym** · 11-02-2013, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by OV Argo

? - i hope you get or appreciate - that when talking offensive stats - yardage - rushing, receiving or passing - it's obviously wayyyyyyyyyyy easier to have bigger numbers or get to 1000 yards now, then it was in the days of 16 game (or 14 in the old East) schedules ? Guys crawled for extra yardage in old days so that skewed the stats there? - are you serious? And most CFL teams had real 2 back attacks (a fullback could get lots of carries) to split the ground game up - diversity - lost in today's CFL limited offensive thinking - so it wasn't just one main RB who got all the carries.

If you read my post carefully you would note that I said "playing 18 games skews the stats", but that I then went on to point out comparing running backs in different eras is extremely difficult because of the differences in the games played in these eras. As to gaining yards by crawling, the following quote by Gerry James, the only Canadian besides Kwong and Cornish, to rush for 1,000 yards twice, specifically points out how important crawling was to Kwong's total yardage.

"Normie got a lot of his yardage, crawling along the ground, until they put in a rule that the ball couldn't be advanced further once he's knees touched the ground," James said. "That really hampered his effectiveness and cut down on his yardage."Though they were rivals, and not close during their playing days or the decades that followed, James recently sent Kwong a copy of his biography Kid Dynamite, written by Ron Smith, an English professor at Malaspina University, that Kwong is now sitting down to read.
"He wrote, in the inscription, ‘It seems so weird, to be writing to my rival and fierce competitor, but it was an honour and
pleasure to compete against a representative who has done so much for his team and his province,'" Kwong said.

http://www2.canada.com/story.html?id=7449022

In the same manner as James honoured Kwong's accomplishments, let's honour all the Canadian running backs who reached 1,000 yards.

**jerrym** · 11-02-2013, 04:29 PM

Incidentally, Andrew Harris gained 102 yards yesterday to fall only 2 yards short of 1,000 for the season, at 998 yards. It seems that the BC Lions coaching staff's decision to reemphasize the running game and the line blocking associated with it in the latter part of the season, following Harris's early rushing success and then a series of game where he averaged 35 yards, together with the appearance of competition in the form of Logan on the scene, has revitalized Harris's running in the last two games. Logan had 64 yards yesterday. In the game before that Logan had 121 yards and Harris 76 yards. It could become an important factor in the playoffs.

In his brief appearance in the game, Cornish gained 14 yards on 4 carries to break his own record for rushing yardage by a Canadian back with 1813 yards, becoming in the process only the third Canadian to rush for a thousand yards twice (Normie Kwong and Gerry James being the others) and only the second, beside Kwong, to do it in consecutive seasons. He also became the second Canadian to lead the league in rushing two years in a row (Kwong is the other). Cornish also broke his own record for total yards from scrimmage gained by a Canadian with 2,157 yards.

**D-Gap-Willie** · 11-03-2013, 02:00 AM

Two great individual records for Cornish, which may well get coupled with a Grey Cup appearance/win later this month, but don't get all excited about Cornish winning the Lou Marsh. It has only been won 3 times by a Canadian football player, the most recent ( and only CFL winner) being Russ Jackson in 1969. Normie Kwong never won -- Gerry James never won, despite being top Canadian rusher, MOC, and being in both the Grey Cup and Stanley Cup finals (with the Leafs) within one year.
The Lou Marsh will probably be won by Anthony Bennett for being drafted #1 in the NBA.

**argolio** · 11-03-2013, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by D-Gap-Willie

The Lou Marsh will probably be won by Anthony Bennett for being drafted #1 in the NBA.

For wearing a nice suit and sitting at a table? I can't see that.

This week, Sportsnet was pushing Jonathan Toews to win whatever year-end awards are out there.

**ArgoRavi** · 11-03-2013, 09:54 PM

Originally Posted by argolio

For wearing a nice suit and sitting at a table? I can't see that.

This week, Sportsnet was pushing Jonathan Toews to win whatever year-end awards are out there.

Big shocker there as Sportsnet barely acknowledges the CFL's existence. I suspect that Ryder Hesjedal has a better chance than Cornish of winning any Canadian male athlete of the year awards.

**OV Argo** · 11-03-2013, 11:15 PM

Originally Posted by D-Gap-Willie

Two great individual records for Cornish, which may well get coupled with a Grey Cup appearance/win later this month, but don't get all excited about Cornish winning the Lou Marsh. It has only been won 3 times by a Canadian football player, the most recent ( and only CFL winner) being Russ Jackson in 1969. Normie Kwong never won -- Gerry James never won, despite being top Canadian rusher, MOC, and being in both the Grey Cup and Stanley Cup finals (with the Leafs) within one year.
The Lou Marsh will probably be won by Anthony Bennett for being drafted #1 in the NBA.

Canadian football players - especially those playing in the lowly only in Canada CFL - need not apply for this award anymore.

In 2000 - the award went to Daniel Igali - a Nigerian wrestler who had became a refugee/Canadian citizen and competed for Canada - and won a gold in the 2000 Olympics (so he must have won what - 4 or 5 matches in a week or two of competition there?) - but ah - that was on the "world stage" so navel gazing Canadians could be so proud.

Meanwhile in 2000 - Sean Millington - played a full season in the CFL (7 months or so of work), rushed for over 1000 yards and had over 500 receiving yards, won top Canadian in the CFL, and helped lead the Lions to a GC Championship (you know, that little ole minor league trophy) and won top Canadian in that game. Not near good enough compared to what the great Canadian Igali accomplished though. What a freakin' pathetic joke - the @$$-hats who voted for that should be ashamed of their ignorance and wannabeness.

* bonus trivia question - name a connection that links both Millington and Igali

**Ron** · 11-04-2013, 02:49 AM

It's quite a shame that you couldn't pump up Millington without crapping all over Igali. Well that is the American way I suppose.

**D-Gap-Willie** · 11-04-2013, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by argolio

For wearing a nice suit and sitting at a table? I can't see that.

I guess I'm not very good at sarcasm

**D-Gap-Willie** · 11-04-2013, 05:47 AM

Originally Posted by OV Argo

* bonus trivia question - name a connection that links both Millington and Igali

Neither play hockey ? Both are Afro Canadians ? Nahhhh, you probably mean that they both attended SFU.

**argolio** · 11-04-2013, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by D-Gap-Willie

I guess I'm not very good at sarcasm

My bad then.

Good one!

**OV Argo** · 11-04-2013, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by Ron

It's quite a shame that you couldn't pump up Millington without crapping all over Igali. Well that is the American way I suppose.

How did i crap all over Igali? - I noted he was a wrestler who won a Gold Medal for Canada; but I guess you can get that I have more respect for a football player who is from this country and who plays a whole season in the pro league in his own country , has great stats, wins a couple of awards and helps his team win a Championship in a historic league in his own country, vs. a wrestler who has been Canada a few years and who wins one event, albeit on the "world stage".