Local Coverage (or the utter lack thereof)

[ArgoRavi]

Neely,

I think all Angelo is trying to point out is that the Argonauts themselves have to share in the blame for the current state of affairs in addition to the lack of helpfulness from the media and other factors.

Argotom is correct that things really started to decline when the Blue Jays won the World Series in 1992 and 1993. However, one cannot ignore the fact that the Argos were a terrible team in 1992 and 1993 and the McNall/Candy/Gretzky ownership trio had withdrawn from the team largely by 1993. Were McNall and Gretzky even present at any games in 1993? I assume that Candy still was.

Candy was doing much of the decision-making in the organization by '93 IIRC. It was Candy's decision to hire Ron Barbaro as President and to fire head coach Dennis Meyer and bring back Bob O'Billovich to replace him. Mouse Davis also got the axe as offensive coordinator at the same time Meyer did (Meyer did stick around as d-coordinator for the rest of the season). I also remember Candy being front and centre at the press conference to announce Obie's return and he certainly gave the impression that this was his decision.

[T-Bone]

Here is something that has been getting some attention on social media. I think this was a smart marketing move: Why the Toronto Argos bought this 1990 Toyota Corolla

[Neely2005]

Here is something that has been getting some attention on social media. I think this was a smart marketing move: Why the Toronto Argos bought this 1990 Toyota Corolla

That's pretty cool.

[1argoholic]

That's a great story.

[argos1873]

Neely,

I think all Angelo is trying to point out is that the Argonauts themselves have to share in the blame for the current state of affairs in addition to the lack of helpfulness from the media and other factors.

Argotom is correct that things really started to decline when the Blue Jays won the World Series in 1992 and 1993. However, one cannot ignore the fact that the Argos were a terrible team in 1992 and 1993 and the McNall/Candy/Gretzky ownership trio had withdrawn from the team largely by 1993. Were McNall and Gretzky even present at any games in 1993? I assume that Candy still was.

I agree the Argos themselves have a lot to do with the fan support and coverage in Toronto, lack there of, but AngeloV said that its ALL due to the Argos. "The blame lies with the current ownership group, plain and simple". Not entirely true. It doesn't matter who the ownership of the Argos are, and what they do, the media whips them like hell. Its fun times for them to whip them, just like trolls on the Internet, only people listening get used to hearing that and it helps to form their opinions. So is it ownerships fault, well this ownership surely has its faults, but even if they did actually do something to market the brand, the media in Toronto would still whip them, until they felt whipping them wasn't favourable anymore. And in my opinion, its going to take a whole hell of a lot of marketing and fan response for the media to pull that whip back. And even then, there will still be the NFL wannabes and lovers that are going to flog that whip. The hill to climb is huge, and it won't get any easier until the media is at least somewhat on board.

[AngeloV]

I agree the Argos themselves have a lot to do with the fan support and coverage in Toronto, lack there of, but AngeloV said that its ALL due to the Argos. "The blame lies with the current ownership group, plain and simple". Not entirely true. It doesn't matter who the ownership of the Argos are, and what they do, the media whips them like hell. Its fun times for them to whip them, just like trolls on the Internet, only people listening get used to hearing that and it helps to form their opinions. So is it ownerships fault, well this ownership surely has its faults, but even if they did actually do something to market the brand, the media in Toronto would still whip them, until they felt whipping them wasn't favourable anymore. And in my opinion, its going to take a whole hell of a lot of marketing and fan response for the media to pull that whip back. And even then, there will still be the NFL wannabes and lovers that are going to flog that whip. The hill to climb is huge, and it won't get any easier until the media is at least somewhat on board.

You are right. I wasn't clear. Though I didn't say all the blame lands with the current wonership, I really should have said that the majority of the blame lands on the current ownership.

It really is a catch 22. It's hard for the media to get fully on board with the team, when the ownership itself appears to not give a damn. If they did, they would see the small crowds and try to get together with some local corporate or retail outlets and do what they can to offer deals for people to get in at a more affordable price. Similar to the 7-11 deal they used to have. Or the Dominion deal in the 90's, A&P and Scotiabank boosters in the 80's and so on.

[argos1873]

You are right. I wasn't clear. Though I didn't say all the blame lands with the current wonership, I really should have said that the majority of the blame lands on the current ownership.

It really is a catch 22. It's hard for the media to get fully on board with the team, when the ownership itself appears to not give a damn. If they did, they would see the small crowds and try to get together with some local corporate or retail outlets and do what they can to offer deals for people to get in at a more affordable price. Similar to the 7-11 deal they used to have. Or the Dominion deal in the 90's, A&P and Scotiabank boosters in the 80's and so on.

Agreed, the only thing I do worry about is that if the next ownership comes in and markets and promotes the hell out of the team, and the fans still don't respond. Then that would give the hating media even more fodder to play with. But then, my fear wouldn't just be that the media will continue to ignore and belittle the team when not ignoring them, but that would probably spell the end of the Argos in this town. Now I hardly think that that was Braley's modus operandi for not marketing the team, I just think he didn't want to spend a dime more than needed to keep the team afloat on his watch, but if he actually did market the team, and the scenario I fear above played out, Tannenbell wouldn't be stepping up next year, and we would probably be without the Argos at the end of next season. Now I actually don't believe that scenario would have played out, but Tannenbell better make sure they market the team in such away that gets near instant results. The outcome of a huge marketing push without results will have very negative effects in the form of even more media backlash, in the form of "I told you so", from the likes of Bobcat McClown. Again I'm very optimistic of what the new owners will accomplish, I'm thinking of it from the dark side.

[Argo57]

Agreed, the only thing I do worry about is that if the next ownership comes in and markets and promotes the hell out of the team, and the fans still don't respond. Then that would give the hating media even more fodder to play with. But then, my fear wouldn't just be that the media will continue to ignore and belittle the team when not ignoring them, but that would probably spell the end of the Argos in this town. Now I hardly think that that was Braley's modus operandi for not marketing the team, I just think he didn't want to spend a dime more than needed to keep the team afloat on his watch, but if he actually did market the team, and the scenario I fear above played out, Tannenbell wouldn't be stepping up next year, and we would probably be without the Argos at the end of next season. Now I actually don't believe that scenario would have played out, but Tannenbell better make sure they market the team in such away that gets near instant results. The outcome of a huge marketing push without results will have very negative effects in the form of even more media backlash, in the form of "I told you so", from the likes of Bobcat McClown. Again I'm very optimistic of what the new owners will accomplish, I'm thinking of it from the dark side.

I think the new ownership can turn this franchise around but it won't be easy.
The Argonauts have a long and storied history in Toronto and it is almost criminal that it has got to this point.
30 years of mostly shitty ownership with no marketing savvy and here we sit but moving forward their is finally hope!!
New more suitable venue and location IMO and ownership group with a lot of marketing and financial clout will help to say the least.
Let's get back to the won't be easy part, 30+ years of poor to zero marketing and lost generations of fans to other Toronto teams and the NFL will present a challenge.
The hope is that this ownership group is committed to this project long term as this brand rebuild may take time to take hold for long term and sustainable success my guess is they are, at least there is hope, think of where we were only a few short months ago.

[argos1873]

I think the new ownership can turn this franchise around but it won't be easy.
The Argonauts have a long and storied history in Toronto and it is almost criminal that it has got to this point.
30 years of mostly shitty ownership with no marketing savvy and here we sit but moving forward their is finally hope!!
New more suitable venue and location IMO and ownership group with a lot of marketing and financial clout will help to say the least.
Let's get back to the won't be easy part, 30+ years of poor to zero marketing and lost generations of fans to other Toronto teams and the NFL will present a challenge.
The hope is that this ownership group is committed to this project long term as this brand rebuild may take time to take hold for long term and sustainable success my guess is they are, at least there is hope, think of where we were only a few short months ago.

Let's see what January 1st brings. I'm optimistic. I'm also optimistic about BMO field. I was at the Ex today and did a walk around of the facility as it was my first time down there since the original reno. It would be awesome to have an Argos game down there during the CNE. I just hope they are able to Argo it up a bit, as its WAAAY too TFC right now, but that's completely understandable under the current situation. As I said, I'm very optimistic, but as a fan for 33 years, I'm used to having my optimism dashed in more than one form when it comes to the Argos, so my optimism is reserved. My fear is, that if this isn't played out in the correct way somehow, we lose the Argos. Its not a big fear, but its there in the back of my mind. Of course the opposite thing could be said about my optimism being dashed so often, that the death knells have rang so often about the Argos and the CFL in the last 30 plus years, and they have survived them all. But even if the Argos will survive any future near death experiences, I just won't those things to go away from now on. I just want the Argos to be a stable team, so we can just concentrate mostly on the football side of things.

[argotom]

$20 says his report is based on reading it here.

What do you have against Frank?
I find his stories with team and player evaluations with excellent coverage bang on.

[AngeloV]

What do you have against Frank?
I find his stories with team and player evaluations with excellent coverage bang on.

I think you are jaded by the fact that he has a lot of coverage on the team. Quantity should not be confused for quality.

I think the Sun is smart by putting arguably there worst writer on the Argos beat. This makes some Argos fans happy that there is a lot of coverage, but at the same time it keeps their best writers writing on what the deem to be more important.

[Jon Gonzo]

What do you have against Frank?
I find his stories with team and player evaluations with excellent coverage bang on.

Agreed. One of the few Toronto writers who actually attends. Lets not scare the last one or two away for heavens sake.

[AngeloV]

Agreed. One of the few Toronto writers who actually attends. Lets not scare the last one or two away for heavens sake.

And we've been through this before. Attending isn't his choice. It's his assignment. Giving him credit for showing up to work? Wow.

I think people should remember that he is not a columnist that can write on pretty much any subject they choose. He's simply a beat writer, and not a very good one at that.

[paulwoods13]

Agreed. One of the few Toronto writers who actually attends. Lets not scare the last one or two away for heavens sake.

Trust me, a few mild rebukes on a forum frequented by a few dozen people will not "scare away" any journalistic organization.

[argotom]

And we've been through this before. Attending isn't his choice. It's his assignment. Giving him credit for showing up to work? Wow.

I think people should remember that he is not a columnist that can write on pretty much any subject they choose. He's simply a beat writer, and not a very good one at that.

I repeat what is wrong with Frank?
His reporting is unlike we have for the Crap Jays and Leafs where the writers are afraid to tell the truth.
I find him factual and frankly refreshing as holding no punches.

[AngeloV]

I repeat what is wrong with Frank?
His reporting is unlike we have for the Crap Jays and Leafs where the writers are afraid to tell the truth.
I find him factual and frankly refreshing as holding no punches.

For starters, he seems to re-use cliches over and over again. His ever famous: In the land of 3 down football, which is a marathon rather than a sprint doesn't really begin until Labour Day...or something towards that effeft. He uses the same damn line every year. Sorry, but that is not good writing. Players and coaches use cliches as a way to not really say anything. Writers are not supposed to.

Anyway I know there is no convincing you, so why even bother?

[argolio]

I repeat what is wrong with Frank?
His reporting is unlike we have for the Crap Jays and Leafs where the writers are afraid to tell the truth.
I find him factual and frankly refreshing as holding no punches.

Don't know about the Jays, but the idea that the Leafs got treated with kid gloves by the media this past season is amusing. What "truth" are the media hiding?

As for Frank, I had no opinion of him until I saw him in action at camp the last few years. Listening to him ask questions in a scrum after practice is a cringe-worthy experience. He does write well compared to Sun hacks like Joe Warmington and Mike Zeisberger (or maybe he has a really good editor), but Frank's general football knowledge is clearly limited.

[argonaut11xx]

For starters, he seems to re-use cliches over and over again. His ever famous: In the land of 3 down football, which is a marathon rather than a sprint doesn't really begin until Labour Day...or something towards that effeft. He uses the same damn line every year. Sorry, but that is not good writing. Players and coaches use cliches as a way to not really say anything. Writers are not supposed to.

Anyway I know there is no convincing you, so why even bother?

AV, and Argotom are both correct, but IMO looking at Frank Z from different directions.
FZ covers the Argo's from a "junior" perspective, meaning his stories can appeal to the casual fan. AV knows his football, and is a more rabid fan with in depth football knowledge, so for AV, reading FZ is like reading a colouring book.
Whereas some who casually follow the team, FZ is feeding them what they want and need on a regular basis.

[Argo]

Trust me, a few mild rebukes on a forum frequented by a few dozen people will not "scare away" any journalistic organization.

And it won't scare away Sun Media either.

[argotom]

There is no way anyone here should be slagging a Sun beat writer especially since this paper is the only daily really covering the team and league in a huge professional basis.