New Stadium Locations

[argolio]

If GO ever adds a route that goes across the top of Toronto from the eastern and western suburbs, it would be a different story, but I think that's unlikely as there already seems to be a shortage of usable rails.

I don't think the issue is shortage of usable rails as much as no high concentrations of employment in the burbs, and certainly nothing approaching downtown. You only have to look at the Yonge subway line, which is over-capacity with 6-car trains running every 90-120 seconds, while Sheppard, a totally suburban line, is at or below capacity with 4-car trains running every 5 minutes.

[Neely2005]

There's no site anywhere that is immune to traffic from all directions. If it's brutal to drive to BMO from the north (and I'm sure it is), it must also be brutal to drive to Rogers Centre from the north. Just as it can be brutal to drive to RC from the west (it certainly was on Friday night, at least) and from the east quite often. No matter where the stadium ends up, driving there will involve fighting traffic for anyone who does not live within a couple of kilometres. The point I've been trying to make is that at least downtown (or at the Ex), you have an option to get there -- from all directions -- that does not require you to drive in Toronto traffic. Anywhere outside the downtown core will eliminate that option for at least some paying customers. If the team can offset any losses from that group with gains from other customers, moving to the suburbs would be a good idea. If not, it won't be.

I don't disagree that the leg of the journey from subway to Ex can be unpleasant on crowded streetcars, but Argo fans put up with that for 30 years when the team played at the Ex.



I think it's fairly certain (based on comments from Leiwecke) that the stadium is going to be renovated extensively, whether or not the Argos become a tenant or partner, so I don't think the current setup should be seen as what we'd be moving into.



There are no high-speed buses that I know of from west of the city or east of the city to the area you are speaking of. Someone living in Oakville, Burlington or Milton (and presumably Pickering/Oshawa/Whitby although I am not positive about that) would need to take GO train to Union, then subway to the stadium. A journey that would take 90 minutes or more from most locations. If GO ever adds a route that goes across the top of Toronto from the eastern and western suburbs, it would be a different story, but I think that's unlikely as there already seems to be a shortage of usable rails.

Surprisingly even though they're pretty close it's much easier to drive and park at/near the Rogers Centre from the North than it is to BMO Field. Wth the Rogers Centre you have the DVP, Gardiner, Lakeshore and City Streets. When driving to BMO Field it's not practical to use the Gardiner due to the lack of exits in the area. And there are much fewer parking options at BMO Field - especially when the CNE is on.

Yes hopefully they follow through with the improvements to BMO Field, especially the partial roof.

It's true that there aren't any high speed buses from that far out but if the stadium was located in Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham or even at Woodbine Racetrack it becomes Much easier to drive to due to the Highways - 401, 407, 404, 427, 409 and to a lesser extent the 410, 403, 50, 27 & 7.

The Highway options are just so much better in Vaughan, Richmond Hill, Markham and at Woodbine Racetrack.

BMO Field has limited highway options, limited transit options and limited parking options. It's pretty much the hardest location possible to get to, much worse than the Rogers Centre.

[cflsteve]

Another often overlooked factor in where to build the stadium would be the sale of the corporate suites. For modern pro sports this is a sizable stream of revenue. Someone correct if I am mistaken but it appears that the suites at RC for Argo games are empty. So although RC may not have great seating for the fans sitting in the seats the suites in RC are first class as will be in any new stadium built.
For corporations there are too many options to where they would acquire a suite for hosting clients or for employees. Summer has the Jays and TFC going head to head with the Argos in the downtown area.
Markham is home to several multi national corporations main Canadian HQ; IBM, Motorola, Toshiba, etc.
The sales of suites are crucial to the new stadiums. Winnipeg is sold out with a waiting list. In Regina the temp seating that was placed in the end zone also included suites which sell out for games. Montreal's renovations included upgraded suites which I believe are also sold out on a regular basis.
So even if the Argos built a stadium downtown they would probably not have as much success in regards with the sale of suites with competition from the other 4 MLSE and Rogers owned franchise.
In Markham they will be the only game in town and the corporations are right there for easy access for say a big friday night football game on TSN after work, Thursday night games in the summer and all the comforts needed for a weekend afternoon game as the weather begins to get cold in the fall

[jerrym]

Another often overlooked factor in where to build the stadium would be the sale of the corporate suites. For modern pro sports this is a sizable stream of revenue. Someone correct if I am mistaken but it appears that the suites at RC for Argo games are empty. So although RC may not have great seating for the fans sitting in the seats the suites in RC are first class as will be in any new stadium built.
For corporations there are too many options to where they would acquire a suite for hosting clients or for employees. Summer has the Jays and TFC going head to head with the Argos in the downtown area.
Markham is home to several multi national corporations main Canadian HQ; IBM, Motorola, Toshiba, etc.
The sales of suites are crucial to the new stadiums. Winnipeg is sold out with a waiting list. In Regina the temp seating that was placed in the end zone also included suites which sell out for games. Montreal's renovations included upgraded suites which I believe are also sold out on a regular basis.
So even if the Argos built a stadium downtown they would probably not have as much success in regards with the sale of suites with competition from the other 4 MLSE and Rogers owned franchise.
In Markham they will be the only game in town and the corporations are right there for easy access for say a big friday night football game on TSN after work, Thursday night games in the summer and all the comforts needed for a weekend afternoon game as the weather begins to get cold in the fall

Welcome on board, cflsteve.

[Argo57]

Another often overlooked factor in where to build the stadium would be the sale of the corporate suites. For modern pro sports this is a sizable stream of revenue. Someone correct if I am mistaken but it appears that the suites at RC for Argo games are empty. So although RC may not have great seating for the fans sitting in the seats the suites in RC are first class as will be in any new stadium built.
For corporations there are too many options to where they would acquire a suite for hosting clients or for employees. Summer has the Jays and TFC going head to head with the Argos in the downtown area.
Markham is home to several multi national corporations main Canadian HQ; IBM, Motorola, Toshiba, etc.
The sales of suites are crucial to the new stadiums. Winnipeg is sold out with a waiting list. In Regina the temp seating that was placed in the end zone also included suites which sell out for games. Montreal's renovations included upgraded suites which I believe are also sold out on a regular basis.
So even if the Argos built a stadium downtown they would probably not have as much success in regards with the sale of suites with competition from the other 4 MLSE and Rogers owned franchise.
In Markham they will be the only game in town and the corporations are right there for easy access for say a big friday night football game on TSN after work, Thursday night games in the summer and all the comforts needed for a weekend afternoon game as the weather begins to get cold in the fall

All good points, everything would change if MLSE bought the team, they would have no issues with private box sales if that were to happen.

[ArgoRavi]

All good points, everything would change if MLSE bought the team, they would have no issues with private box sales if that were to happen.

I honestly believe that this is where things are headed with the Argos' new home being BMO Field. Braley isn't going to put one dime into a brand, new stadium when he is planning on selling the team within the next couple of years and I don't see government money going to any new stadium as well. A renovated BMO Field could probably be ready by 2015 or 2016.

[cflsteve]

I honestly believe that this is where things are headed with the Argos' new home being BMO Field. Braley isn't going to put one dime into a brand, new stadium when he is planning on selling the team within the next couple of years and I don't see government money going to any new stadium as well. A renovated BMO Field could probably be ready by 2015 or 2016.

I think that would be true if there was a stadium to be built in Downtown Toronto but building a stadium outside of Toronto could be part of a land redevelopment project as well as $$$ from local govt in the municipalities outside of Toronto. Also private dollars from one of the several major multi national corporations that are based in Markham.
Clearly is a project that will be looking to many partners in and around the Municipality it is built in.
With no news at all on this at this time everything is just speculation.
I just cannot see them reversing the BMO philosophy at this point. Not just for TFC fans but also city of Toronto would most likely want to continue as being the main training location for the National Soccer teams. The CMT almost moved to Montreal with Saputo having the best surface at the time and having the high quality natural soccer surface at BMO will keep them there.

[shayman]

When driving to BMO Field it's not practical to use the Gardiner due to the lack of exits in the area. And there are much fewer parking options at BMO Field - especially when the CNE is on....

BMO Field has limited highway options, limited transit options and limited parking options. It's pretty much the hardest location possible to get to, much worse than the Rogers Centre.

I'm not sure I understand this argument. From the west, exit at Jameson and you're almost right there; from the east, (downtown) exit at Spadina and it's not THAT far.
Limited transit? GO Trains right at the door with half-hourly service east and west. From the GO perspective this is an ideal location. (I agree, TTC streetcar service could be better.)
Limited parking? It's surrounded by parking lots. The tailgate scene might actually be pretty good.

[rdavies]

With no news at all on this at this time everything is just speculation.

I just cannot see them reversing the BMO philosophy at this point. Not just for TFC fans but also city of Toronto would most likely want to continue as being the main training location for the National Soccer teams. The CMT almost moved to Montreal with Saputo having the best surface at the time and having the high quality natural soccer surface at BMO will keep them there.

I don't think BMO is the main training centre of Canadian soccer NTs. It (BMO/Toronto) is basically a hub, that has easy flight access, a turf surface, and is home to many of the players. That's what makes it attractive. I don't recall hearing about any serious danger of moving to Montreal as most of the NT extended training camps were usually held at the Nottawasaga Inn Resort in Alliston. Most of the time the players (spread across NA and Europe) fly in for a few days of training before a game at BMO.

Their comfort level with BMO is unfortunate as they are virtually unknown in the country. Whereas the popular women's NT play around the country (on AT surfaces) so far the men have not. And when you have great facilities like BC and Winnipeg not being used (by the men), it's a shame. Maybe the Argentines and Brazilians won't play on AT but certainly many other countries won't mind accepting appearance fees.

The only way BMO enters the argument is if MLSE buys the Argos. If not it is entirely credible that Braley will put together his own stadium plan. He has made public pronouncements and it seems unlikely to me that a man of his integrity would bother or risk doing that if it wasn't his intention. I just wish this thing would come to a head one way or another.

Braley's comments on the record: In the halftime interview of the Lions/Argos game he said:

Question: You've done this in British Colombia...I remember coming here and thinking I'm seeing the last days of the BC Lions when you'd have nine, ten, twelve thousand

Braley: In BC we did the demographics, we've now completed the demographics in Toronto we've got 14% Italian fans in Toronto so you've got to build your marketing programs and programs around the demographic and once you do that and reach out and touch them then they start to become your partners and Waterboys and in our case our Double Blues Club in Toronto.

It's a very slow hard working process but you're also fighting the big leagues in the sense of Major League Baseball and hockey. We had the best attendance and atmosphere for a home game in Toronto, I think it was 28 or 29 thousand last week for our home opener in Toronto. Everybody's talking about the buzz and if we start putting them in regularly we can bring those fans back to the Canadian Football League in Toronto

What we intend to do is have a 27-29 thousand seat stadium in all likelihood in north Toronto, Vaughan, Markham maybe Mississauga and the plans are being worked on outside the Argonauts themselves, they're to sell tickets and put the house in order for the team. Outside I have my construction companies working on where we would be and where we could set up and where we could build a stadium and who's gonna fund it

Question: Do you have a timeline?

Braley: Under 5 years. They (Rogers) wouldn't kick us out on the street if we needed an extra year but it would be best if we had our own facility, if it's three years fine if it's four years fine if it's six years it'll come to pass.




Braley proposes selling his CFL clubs
Kevin Werner, News Staff September, 19, 2013

...

Braley, speaking to about 60 people at a Progressive Conservative party fundraiser Sept 18 at the Lakeview in Hamilton, the Burlington resident said he is also looking at building a new stadium for the Argonauts. Already, there are four municipalities with land that would accommodate a new facility, he said.

While selling the B.C. Lions will be easy because the franchise is doing well financially, Toronto, which he bought in 2010, will be more difficult, said Braley.

“They are still losing money,” said Braley. “We will eventually make money. We need a new stadium and I have three communities looking at land now. There is a fourth one as of today (Sept. 18).”

He said a location, and securing the money for a new facility should be completed within a year.

Some of the money will come from both the provincial and federal governments, he said.

The Argonauts were looking to sign a new lease agreement to play at the Rogers Centre earlier this month. But it is expected their time at the facility will be short lived. The Toronto Blue Jays are looking at replacing the facility’s artificial turf and replace it with grass.

[cflsteve]

I don't think BMO is the main training centre of Canadian soccer NTs. It (BMO/Toronto) is basically a hub, that has easy flight access, a turf surface, and is home to many of the players. That's what makes it attractive. I don't recall hearing about any serious danger of moving to Montreal as most of the NT extended training camps were usually held at the Nottawasaga Inn Resort in Alliston. Most of the time the players (spread across NA and Europe) fly in for a few days of training before a game at BMO.

Their comfort level with BMO is unfortunate as they are virtually unknown in the country. Whereas the popular women's NT play around the country (on AT surfaces) so far the men have not. And when you have great facilities like BC and Winnipeg not being used (by the men), it's a shame. Maybe the Argentines and Brazilians won't play on AT but certainly many other countries won't mind accepting appearance fees.

The only way BMO enters the argument is if MLSE buys the Argos. If not it is entirely credible that Braley will put together his own stadium plan. He has made public pronouncements and it seems unlikely to me that a man of his integrity would bother or risk doing that if it wasn't his intention. I just wish this thing would come to a head one way or another.

Braley's comments on the record: In the halftime interview of the Lions/Argos game he said:

Question: You've done this in British Colombia...I remember coming here and thinking I'm seeing the last days of the BC Lions when you'd have nine, ten, twelve thousand

Braley: In BC we did the demographics, we've now completed the demographics in Toronto we've got 14% Italian fans in Toronto so you've got to build your marketing programs and programs around the demographic and once you do that and reach out and touch them then they start to become your partners and Waterboys and in our case our Double Blues Club in Toronto.

It's a very slow hard working process but you're also fighting the big leagues in the sense of Major League Baseball and hockey. We had the best attendance and atmosphere for a home game in Toronto, I think it was 28 or 29 thousand last week for our home opener in Toronto. Everybody's talking about the buzz and if we start putting them in regularly we can bring those fans back to the Canadian Football League in Toronto

What we intend to do is have a 27-29 thousand seat stadium in all likelihood in north Toronto, Vaughan, Markham maybe Mississauga and the plans are being worked on outside the Argonauts themselves, they're to sell tickets and put the house in order for the team. Outside I have my construction companies working on where we would be and where we could set up and where we could build a stadium and who's gonna fund it

Question: Do you have a timeline?

Braley: Under 5 years. They (Rogers) wouldn't kick us out on the street if we needed an extra year but it would be best if we had our own facility, if it's three years fine if it's four years fine if it's six years it'll come to pass.

There you have it they have studied the demographics and the location will be in the North GTA suburbs, straight from owner himeself. The fans are not coming into downtown Toronto on a regular basis so Braley will bring the Argos to where the fans are for the CFL. Peel, York, and Durham.
York is in the center and as the roadways will not be great for everyone they York Area has 1.2 million itself and each of the other two regions will have areas that border the York Area on the left and the right so there access could be reasonable. As for public transportation people in the suburbs like to drive so getting into your car and driving to the game in an area with ample parking sets up a nice tailgaiting situation.
Also looking what is going on around other cities in North America expanding in to now bigger populated areas in the suburbs for a franchise that sits 3rd or 4th in the pecking order of city teams is working in many places.
The Argos will not be among the top 3 in the city anytime is this generation or two. NHL, MLB, and NBA are just too big to compete with and the Argos have fallen out of favor for sometime now. If they did stay in Toronto they would at best be competing for a distant 4th with TFC.
Time to move to a new area and start something new in that now very populated area. Times have changed and the Argos are seeing that change is best for them.
Too many people are looking at this as a bad thing and dont see what a good thing it can be.
Toronto is unique in this way with the other two big Metros have NHL, CFL, and MLS. No MLB and or NBA and the MLS teams are still very new so the CFL is still at number two.
For Toronto you also need to factor in Hamilton Ti Cats as anyone to the south of Toronto are Hamilton Ti Cats fans

[Qman]

The stadium will be built where it is cheap to build (ie. edge of burbs) because braley has said time-and-time again he will not put money into a stadium. Money will come from development (requirement by developer to build the stadium as part of a large commercial/condo development where they make big $$$ on rezoning/development) and some provincial/local funds. Braley will probably be part of the development group and make $$$ that way. The stadium will be like Tim Hortons ... Not as nice as IGF but not a pseudo stadium like BMO or Saputo. Selling point a city is use of the field in winter (under a bubble) and springtime. Its a huge risk for argos if fans don't follow them. But you could say over time, they will be able to market more effective y with all with SME businesses in 407/401 belt and fill prime/club seats and boxes that way ... thats where the money is made in to CFL selling the 14,000 seats between the 20's for $700 per season and boxes. All the $20-30 seats outside that zone are just window dressing. Thats why Ticats are fine with a 22k stadium. My guess is probably way out in vaughn/markham.

Don't see BMO as a option as they will never get the 75-100 million in gov't funding to bring that stadium up to professional standards (two roofs over the side stands, more luxury boxes/club seating, professional seating, second deck/xtra seating, movable soccer seats in end zones, etc) and I don't see MLSE kicking in real $$$ into soccer. MLSE believes gov't money will be directed to some Argos project and they want to leach off it. Argos might get a better facility with $100m more into BMO, but in the end Argos will want to control their own facility after deaiing with rogers all these years.

[rdavies]

Where Braley's head is at, re new Toronto stadium...

Braley says Pan Am stadium in wrong location
Kevin Werner, News Staff hamiltonnews.com September, 19, 2013

“If I was to build it, I would not be building it on the site its being built,” said Braley.

The Burlington resident and Ontario senator told about 60 people during a fundraising event Sept. 18 at the Lakeview on Van Wagner’s Beach Road, said if Confederation wasn’t available, then the next option should have been to drop it on 100 acres of land, and then add commercial and retail building, including a hotel, to support it. He said it would have benefited the city’s business community, and for Hamilton’s economic development sector.

“We should have developed the land with retail, and hotels” (that other municipalities have done, including Ottawa), said Braley.

[Argo57]

The stadium will be built where it is cheap to build (ie. edge of burbs) because braley has said time-and-time again he will not put money into a stadium. Money will come from development (requirement by developer to build the stadium as part of a large commercial/condo development where they make big $$$ on rezoning/development) and some provincial/local funds. Braley will probably be part of the development group and make $$$ that way. The stadium will be like Tim Hortons ... Not as nice as IGF but not a pseudo stadium like BMO or Saputo. Selling point a city is use of the field in winter (under a bubble) and springtime. Its a huge risk for argos if fans don't follow them. But you could say over time, they will be able to market more effective y with all with SME businesses in 407/401 belt and fill prime/club seats and boxes that way ... thats where the money is made in to CFL selling the 14,000 seats between the 20's for $700 per season and boxes. All the $20-30 seats outside that zone are just window dressing. Thats why Ticats are fine with a 22k stadium. My guess is probably way out in vaughn/markham.

Don't see BMO as a option as they will never get the 75-100 million in gov't funding to bring that stadium up to professional standards (two roofs over the side stands, more luxury boxes/club seating, professional seating, second deck/xtra seating, movable soccer seats in end zones, etc) and I don't see MLSE kicking in real $$$ into soccer. MLSE believes gov't money will be directed to some Argos project and they want to leach off it. Argos might get a better facility with $100m more into BMO, but in the end Argos will want to control their own facility after deaiing with rogers all these years.

I believe the plan is for MLSE to kick $100 mil+ into BMO themselves, if this is the case the I think they will in fact purchase the Argonauts to maximize the return on their investment. This also would be the easiest way for Braley to divest himself of the team without all the work and time it would take to build a new facility elsewhere.
I think all this talk of other sites is simply "posturing" by Braley to up the ante with MLSE so that they don't appear to be the only option.
Let's face it, the guy is 72 years old and may want a quick exit from this franchise.

[cflsteve]

I believe the plan is for MLSE to kick $100 mil+ into BMO themselves, if this is the case the I think they will in fact purchase the Argonauts to maximize the return on their investment. This also would be the easiest way for Braley to divest himself of the team without all the work and time it would take to build a new facility elsewhere.
I think all this talk of other sites is simply "posturing" by Braley to up the ante with MLSE so that they don't appear to be the only option.
Let's face it, the guy is 72 years old and may want a quick exit from this franchise.

This could certainly be true but it is possible that Braley, a huge CFL fan, could want to build a stadium that will be the Argos stadium. All of his support of the CFL over the years has been fantastic and leaving a stadium behind could be something that would define his legacy as one of the great CFL supporters in history.
The MLSE sinking 100 million into BMO they would be better off building a new stadium.
One of the stadiums that the MLSE has looked at modeling BMO after is PPL park home of the Union which is estimated to cost about 130 million in 2013 to build.

[QBall]

For me the BMO Field location is one of the worst possibilities as I'm coming from the North end of Toronto. I probably wouldn't renew my Seasons Tickets if they go to BMO Field. It's just a terrible location for me personally. The funny thing is that 'it's so close, yet so far' from the current location at the Rogers Centre.

That's kind of funny you should say that because there are a lot of Toronto FC fans who said they wouldn't renew their season's tickets if the Argos came to BMO. I was watching the TFC/Montreal game yesterday and there was a banner hanging on the lowest rail of the south stands almost behind the net which said "No Argos at BMO". Apparently many believe the Argos would ruin the grass, plus most don't want to see American football field markings (either fresh or covered up which you can never do 100%) on the field when they're trying to watch TFC play. So looks like the biggest pushback regarding the Argos at BMO will be TFC fans, however if MLSE buys the Argos, which would be the best thing for the Argos in my opinion, then it's a foregone conclusion that the Argos would move into a rebuilt BMO.

[rdavies]

American football?

I think all this talk of other sites is simply "posturing" by Braley to up the ante with MLSE so that they don't appear to be the only option. Let's face it, the guy is 72 years old and may want a quick exit from this franchise

I don't think Braley is in any hurry to divest the Argos, it's not like he's hard up for cash. If age had anything to do with it he could sell the Lions much easier than the Argos.

I think he's looking for the best long term solution for the Argos and certainly isn't posturing. If there is any apprehension I would think it is a reluctance to build a new stadium when you're not 100% sure if the Argos can make a real resurgence in the market. That's why it would have to be part of a larger development deal to have some part of the development assured to make money

One of the stadiums that the MLSE has looked at modeling BMO after is PPL park home of the Union which is estimated to cost about 130 million in 2013 to build.

If the Argos become a part of MLSE's band of losers (save financially) they're looking at 27-29k seats, a roof and a form of winterization to the structure, far beyond PPL Park. It's gonna cost a few shekels.

[Ron]

American football?

The type of "football" played in North America. Not the real football played everywhere.

[Neely2005]

I'm not sure I understand this argument. From the west, exit at Jameson and you're almost right there; from the east, (downtown) exit at Spadina and it's not THAT far.
Limited transit? GO Trains right at the door with half-hourly service east and west. From the GO perspective this is an ideal location. (I agree, TTC streetcar service could be better.)
Limited parking? It's surrounded by parking lots. The tailgate scene might actually be pretty good.

The Jamieson exit either puts you onto Jamieson which is a 2 lane (Total) city street with on street parking or onto Lakeshore which means that you have to either exit onto Ontario which is also a 2 lane street (with 1 center turn lane) or onto Strahan which only has 1 Northbound lane. It's the same thing if you get off at Spadina.

Also the Dufferin Street bridge is closed for the next few years for construction.

The only GO line that services the Exhibition GO Station is the Lakeshore West line. The other lines all go into Union Station. Also it doesn't run every 30 minutes, especially on weekends. Yes it's surrounded by Small, Expensive parking lots that disappear during the CNE and the Indy race.

Try getting to BMO Field from the North or East or by TTC, it's brutal. It's really only accessible if you happen to live on the Lakeshore West GO Line.

[QBall]

American football?

When talking about soccer and football in the same post I always like to write Amercian football as some still picture soccer when someone says "Football".

[Neely2005]

I don't think BMO is the main training centre of Canadian soccer NTs. It (BMO/Toronto) is basically a hub, that has easy flight access, a turf surface, and is home to many of the players. That's what makes it attractive. I don't recall hearing about any serious danger of moving to Montreal as most of the NT extended training camps were usually held at the Nottawasaga Inn Resort in Alliston. Most of the time the players (spread across NA and Europe) fly in for a few days of training before a game at BMO.

Their comfort level with BMO is unfortunate as they are virtually unknown in the country. Whereas the popular women's NT play around the country (on AT surfaces) so far the men have not. And when you have great facilities like BC and Winnipeg not being used (by the men), it's a shame. Maybe the Argentines and Brazilians won't play on AT but certainly many other countries won't mind accepting appearance fees.

The only way BMO enters the argument is if MLSE buys the Argos. If not it is entirely credible that Braley will put together his own stadium plan. He has made public pronouncements and it seems unlikely to me that a man of his integrity would bother or risk doing that if it wasn't his intention. I just wish this thing would come to a head one way or another.

Braley's comments on the record: In the halftime interview of the Lions/Argos game he said:

Question: You've done this in British Colombia...I remember coming here and thinking I'm seeing the last days of the BC Lions when you'd have nine, ten, twelve thousand

Braley: In BC we did the demographics, we've now completed the demographics in Toronto we've got 14% Italian fans in Toronto so you've got to build your marketing programs and programs around the demographic and once you do that and reach out and touch them then they start to become your partners and Waterboys and in our case our Double Blues Club in Toronto.

It's a very slow hard working process but you're also fighting the big leagues in the sense of Major League Baseball and hockey. We had the best attendance and atmosphere for a home game in Toronto, I think it was 28 or 29 thousand last week for our home opener in Toronto. Everybody's talking about the buzz and if we start putting them in regularly we can bring those fans back to the Canadian Football League in Toronto

What we intend to do is have a 27-29 thousand seat stadium in all likelihood in north Toronto, Vaughan, Markham maybe Mississauga and the plans are being worked on outside the Argonauts themselves, they're to sell tickets and put the house in order for the team. Outside I have my construction companies working on where we would be and where we could set up and where we could build a stadium and who's gonna fund it

Question: Do you have a timeline?

Braley: Under 5 years. They (Rogers) wouldn't kick us out on the street if we needed an extra year but it would be best if we had our own facility, if it's three years fine if it's four years fine if it's six years it'll come to pass.

"North Toronto, Vaughan, Markham maybe Mississauga".

Mississauga doesn't work for me but North Toronto, Vaughan & Markham will all work well for me. (Yes I know that it's not just about me but I mentioned in my previous posts why I think that those are good loacations)

So there you go, the only way that we end up at BMO Field is if MLSE buys the Argonauts. So there's yet another reason against the perennial losers at MLSE buying our Argonauts.

Everything that MLSE touches gets expensive and uncompetitive.

Hopefully a better owner than MLSE is found!




Subway extension into Richmond Hill:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle15113241/

This has been in the planning for years. Hopefully they get the shovels in the ground soon as this extension made more sense than the Vaughan extension which is already under way.