New Stadium Locations

[1argoholic]

I guess no site would be good for us at this point. Living ten minutes north of Norwood makes any venture to an Argo game tough. I guess for selfish reasons anything east of the downtown would be cool. Who knows what will happen with future transit or hwy development towards Peterborough. Hell we're just excited to have picked a great place to call home.

[cflsteve]

Another often overlooked factor in where to build the stadium would be the sale of the corporate suites. For modern pro sports this is a sizable stream of revenue. Someone correct if I am mistaken but it appears that the suites at RC for Argo games are empty. So although RC may not have great seating for the fans sitting in the seats the suites in RC are first class as will be in any new stadium built.
For corporations there are too many options to where they would acquire a suite for hosting clients or for employees. Summer has the Jays and TFC going head to head with the Argos in the downtown area.
Markham is home to several multi national corporations main Canadian HQ; IBM, Motorola, Toshiba, etc.
The sales of suites are crucial to the new stadiums. Winnipeg is sold out with a waiting list. In Regina the temp seating that was placed in the end zone also included suites which sell out for games. Montreal's renovations included upgraded suites which I believe are also sold out on a regular basis.
So even if the Argos built a stadium downtown they would probably not have as much success in regards with the sale of suites with competition from the other 4 MLSE and Rogers owned franchise.
In Markham they will be the only game in town and the corporations are right there for easy access for say a big friday night football game on TSN after work, Thursday night games in the summer and all the comforts needed for a weekend afternoon game as the weather begins to get cold in the fall

[jerrym]

Another often overlooked factor in where to build the stadium would be the sale of the corporate suites. For modern pro sports this is a sizable stream of revenue. Someone correct if I am mistaken but it appears that the suites at RC for Argo games are empty. So although RC may not have great seating for the fans sitting in the seats the suites in RC are first class as will be in any new stadium built.
For corporations there are too many options to where they would acquire a suite for hosting clients or for employees. Summer has the Jays and TFC going head to head with the Argos in the downtown area.
Markham is home to several multi national corporations main Canadian HQ; IBM, Motorola, Toshiba, etc.
The sales of suites are crucial to the new stadiums. Winnipeg is sold out with a waiting list. In Regina the temp seating that was placed in the end zone also included suites which sell out for games. Montreal's renovations included upgraded suites which I believe are also sold out on a regular basis.
So even if the Argos built a stadium downtown they would probably not have as much success in regards with the sale of suites with competition from the other 4 MLSE and Rogers owned franchise.
In Markham they will be the only game in town and the corporations are right there for easy access for say a big friday night football game on TSN after work, Thursday night games in the summer and all the comforts needed for a weekend afternoon game as the weather begins to get cold in the fall

Welcome on board, cflsteve.

[Argo57]

Another often overlooked factor in where to build the stadium would be the sale of the corporate suites. For modern pro sports this is a sizable stream of revenue. Someone correct if I am mistaken but it appears that the suites at RC for Argo games are empty. So although RC may not have great seating for the fans sitting in the seats the suites in RC are first class as will be in any new stadium built.
For corporations there are too many options to where they would acquire a suite for hosting clients or for employees. Summer has the Jays and TFC going head to head with the Argos in the downtown area.
Markham is home to several multi national corporations main Canadian HQ; IBM, Motorola, Toshiba, etc.
The sales of suites are crucial to the new stadiums. Winnipeg is sold out with a waiting list. In Regina the temp seating that was placed in the end zone also included suites which sell out for games. Montreal's renovations included upgraded suites which I believe are also sold out on a regular basis.
So even if the Argos built a stadium downtown they would probably not have as much success in regards with the sale of suites with competition from the other 4 MLSE and Rogers owned franchise.
In Markham they will be the only game in town and the corporations are right there for easy access for say a big friday night football game on TSN after work, Thursday night games in the summer and all the comforts needed for a weekend afternoon game as the weather begins to get cold in the fall

All good points, everything would change if MLSE bought the team, they would have no issues with private box sales if that were to happen.

[ArgoRavi]

All good points, everything would change if MLSE bought the team, they would have no issues with private box sales if that were to happen.

I honestly believe that this is where things are headed with the Argos' new home being BMO Field. Braley isn't going to put one dime into a brand, new stadium when he is planning on selling the team within the next couple of years and I don't see government money going to any new stadium as well. A renovated BMO Field could probably be ready by 2015 or 2016.

[cflsteve]

I honestly believe that this is where things are headed with the Argos' new home being BMO Field. Braley isn't going to put one dime into a brand, new stadium when he is planning on selling the team within the next couple of years and I don't see government money going to any new stadium as well. A renovated BMO Field could probably be ready by 2015 or 2016.

I think that would be true if there was a stadium to be built in Downtown Toronto but building a stadium outside of Toronto could be part of a land redevelopment project as well as $$$ from local govt in the municipalities outside of Toronto. Also private dollars from one of the several major multi national corporations that are based in Markham.
Clearly is a project that will be looking to many partners in and around the Municipality it is built in.
With no news at all on this at this time everything is just speculation.
I just cannot see them reversing the BMO philosophy at this point. Not just for TFC fans but also city of Toronto would most likely want to continue as being the main training location for the National Soccer teams. The CMT almost moved to Montreal with Saputo having the best surface at the time and having the high quality natural soccer surface at BMO will keep them there.

[rdavies]

With no news at all on this at this time everything is just speculation.

I just cannot see them reversing the BMO philosophy at this point. Not just for TFC fans but also city of Toronto would most likely want to continue as being the main training location for the National Soccer teams. The CMT almost moved to Montreal with Saputo having the best surface at the time and having the high quality natural soccer surface at BMO will keep them there.

I don't think BMO is the main training centre of Canadian soccer NTs. It (BMO/Toronto) is basically a hub, that has easy flight access, a turf surface, and is home to many of the players. That's what makes it attractive. I don't recall hearing about any serious danger of moving to Montreal as most of the NT extended training camps were usually held at the Nottawasaga Inn Resort in Alliston. Most of the time the players (spread across NA and Europe) fly in for a few days of training before a game at BMO.

Their comfort level with BMO is unfortunate as they are virtually unknown in the country. Whereas the popular women's NT play around the country (on AT surfaces) so far the men have not. And when you have great facilities like BC and Winnipeg not being used (by the men), it's a shame. Maybe the Argentines and Brazilians won't play on AT but certainly many other countries won't mind accepting appearance fees.

The only way BMO enters the argument is if MLSE buys the Argos. If not it is entirely credible that Braley will put together his own stadium plan. He has made public pronouncements and it seems unlikely to me that a man of his integrity would bother or risk doing that if it wasn't his intention. I just wish this thing would come to a head one way or another.

Braley's comments on the record: In the halftime interview of the Lions/Argos game he said:

Question: You've done this in British Colombia...I remember coming here and thinking I'm seeing the last days of the BC Lions when you'd have nine, ten, twelve thousand

Braley: In BC we did the demographics, we've now completed the demographics in Toronto we've got 14% Italian fans in Toronto so you've got to build your marketing programs and programs around the demographic and once you do that and reach out and touch them then they start to become your partners and Waterboys and in our case our Double Blues Club in Toronto.

It's a very slow hard working process but you're also fighting the big leagues in the sense of Major League Baseball and hockey. We had the best attendance and atmosphere for a home game in Toronto, I think it was 28 or 29 thousand last week for our home opener in Toronto. Everybody's talking about the buzz and if we start putting them in regularly we can bring those fans back to the Canadian Football League in Toronto

What we intend to do is have a 27-29 thousand seat stadium in all likelihood in north Toronto, Vaughan, Markham maybe Mississauga and the plans are being worked on outside the Argonauts themselves, they're to sell tickets and put the house in order for the team. Outside I have my construction companies working on where we would be and where we could set up and where we could build a stadium and who's gonna fund it

Question: Do you have a timeline?

Braley: Under 5 years. They (Rogers) wouldn't kick us out on the street if we needed an extra year but it would be best if we had our own facility, if it's three years fine if it's four years fine if it's six years it'll come to pass.




Braley proposes selling his CFL clubs
Kevin Werner, News Staff September, 19, 2013

...

Braley, speaking to about 60 people at a Progressive Conservative party fundraiser Sept 18 at the Lakeview in Hamilton, the Burlington resident said he is also looking at building a new stadium for the Argonauts. Already, there are four municipalities with land that would accommodate a new facility, he said.

While selling the B.C. Lions will be easy because the franchise is doing well financially, Toronto, which he bought in 2010, will be more difficult, said Braley.

“They are still losing money,” said Braley. “We will eventually make money. We need a new stadium and I have three communities looking at land now. There is a fourth one as of today (Sept. 18).”

He said a location, and securing the money for a new facility should be completed within a year.

Some of the money will come from both the provincial and federal governments, he said.

The Argonauts were looking to sign a new lease agreement to play at the Rogers Centre earlier this month. But it is expected their time at the facility will be short lived. The Toronto Blue Jays are looking at replacing the facility’s artificial turf and replace it with grass.

[Qman]

The stadium will be built where it is cheap to build (ie. edge of burbs) because braley has said time-and-time again he will not put money into a stadium. Money will come from development (requirement by developer to build the stadium as part of a large commercial/condo development where they make big $$$ on rezoning/development) and some provincial/local funds. Braley will probably be part of the development group and make $$$ that way. The stadium will be like Tim Hortons ... Not as nice as IGF but not a pseudo stadium like BMO or Saputo. Selling point a city is use of the field in winter (under a bubble) and springtime. Its a huge risk for argos if fans don't follow them. But you could say over time, they will be able to market more effective y with all with SME businesses in 407/401 belt and fill prime/club seats and boxes that way ... thats where the money is made in to CFL selling the 14,000 seats between the 20's for $700 per season and boxes. All the $20-30 seats outside that zone are just window dressing. Thats why Ticats are fine with a 22k stadium. My guess is probably way out in vaughn/markham.

Don't see BMO as a option as they will never get the 75-100 million in gov't funding to bring that stadium up to professional standards (two roofs over the side stands, more luxury boxes/club seating, professional seating, second deck/xtra seating, movable soccer seats in end zones, etc) and I don't see MLSE kicking in real $$$ into soccer. MLSE believes gov't money will be directed to some Argos project and they want to leach off it. Argos might get a better facility with $100m more into BMO, but in the end Argos will want to control their own facility after deaiing with rogers all these years.

[rdavies]

Where Braley's head is at, re new Toronto stadium...

Braley says Pan Am stadium in wrong location
Kevin Werner, News Staff hamiltonnews.com September, 19, 2013

“If I was to build it, I would not be building it on the site its being built,” said Braley.

The Burlington resident and Ontario senator told about 60 people during a fundraising event Sept. 18 at the Lakeview on Van Wagner’s Beach Road, said if Confederation wasn’t available, then the next option should have been to drop it on 100 acres of land, and then add commercial and retail building, including a hotel, to support it. He said it would have benefited the city’s business community, and for Hamilton’s economic development sector.

“We should have developed the land with retail, and hotels” (that other municipalities have done, including Ottawa), said Braley.

[Argo57]

The stadium will be built where it is cheap to build (ie. edge of burbs) because braley has said time-and-time again he will not put money into a stadium. Money will come from development (requirement by developer to build the stadium as part of a large commercial/condo development where they make big $$$ on rezoning/development) and some provincial/local funds. Braley will probably be part of the development group and make $$$ that way. The stadium will be like Tim Hortons ... Not as nice as IGF but not a pseudo stadium like BMO or Saputo. Selling point a city is use of the field in winter (under a bubble) and springtime. Its a huge risk for argos if fans don't follow them. But you could say over time, they will be able to market more effective y with all with SME businesses in 407/401 belt and fill prime/club seats and boxes that way ... thats where the money is made in to CFL selling the 14,000 seats between the 20's for $700 per season and boxes. All the $20-30 seats outside that zone are just window dressing. Thats why Ticats are fine with a 22k stadium. My guess is probably way out in vaughn/markham.

Don't see BMO as a option as they will never get the 75-100 million in gov't funding to bring that stadium up to professional standards (two roofs over the side stands, more luxury boxes/club seating, professional seating, second deck/xtra seating, movable soccer seats in end zones, etc) and I don't see MLSE kicking in real $$$ into soccer. MLSE believes gov't money will be directed to some Argos project and they want to leach off it. Argos might get a better facility with $100m more into BMO, but in the end Argos will want to control their own facility after deaiing with rogers all these years.

I believe the plan is for MLSE to kick $100 mil+ into BMO themselves, if this is the case the I think they will in fact purchase the Argonauts to maximize the return on their investment. This also would be the easiest way for Braley to divest himself of the team without all the work and time it would take to build a new facility elsewhere.
I think all this talk of other sites is simply "posturing" by Braley to up the ante with MLSE so that they don't appear to be the only option.
Let's face it, the guy is 72 years old and may want a quick exit from this franchise.

[cflsteve]

I believe the plan is for MLSE to kick $100 mil+ into BMO themselves, if this is the case the I think they will in fact purchase the Argonauts to maximize the return on their investment. This also would be the easiest way for Braley to divest himself of the team without all the work and time it would take to build a new facility elsewhere.
I think all this talk of other sites is simply "posturing" by Braley to up the ante with MLSE so that they don't appear to be the only option.
Let's face it, the guy is 72 years old and may want a quick exit from this franchise.

This could certainly be true but it is possible that Braley, a huge CFL fan, could want to build a stadium that will be the Argos stadium. All of his support of the CFL over the years has been fantastic and leaving a stadium behind could be something that would define his legacy as one of the great CFL supporters in history.
The MLSE sinking 100 million into BMO they would be better off building a new stadium.
One of the stadiums that the MLSE has looked at modeling BMO after is PPL park home of the Union which is estimated to cost about 130 million in 2013 to build.

[Argo57]

I don't think Braley is in any hurry to divest the Argos, it's not like he's hard up for cash. If age had anything to do with it he could sell the Lions much easier than the Argos.

I think he's looking for the best long term solution for the Argos and certainly isn't posturing. If there is any apprehension I would think it is a reluctance to build a new stadium when you're not 100% sure if the Argos can make a real resurgence in the market. That's why it would have to be part of a larger development deal to have some part of the development assured to make money

I think he just said he wants to sell the Argo franchise by his 75th birthday, which leaves less than 3 years.
The planning, financing of a large development project will take a lot of time and cash, thus in my opinion the easiest and most feasible option probably is MLSE and a renovated BMO Field.

[bluto]

maybe i'm crazy, but i think that the deal is all but done at this point.

(we all have gone through this same discussion enough times that i hope that it is anyway...)

i dreamt of a IGF Stadium type home for the Argos being built in a Toronto area with easy highway access and tons of room for parking (like Downsview Park)... but at this time money, politics and circumstances are all pointing in one direction.

imo, all discussion and explorations of building a facility from scratch somewhere in the 905 area was designed to elicit a particular response from an entity that would very much not like for that to happen... and it appears to have been a successful gambit since the Pres and CEO of that company has been making publicly quoted statements about a possible future with the Argos...

i think it's done and that it'll be official in the off-season (after the Argos become back to back champs of course)

EDIT: so anyway, i didn't vote because i wanted a big, shiny new stadium but i think we're getting a lightly used, newly expanded and dolled-up stadium.

[ArgoGabe22]

From today

On other matters, Leiweke said:

-- The chances of an NFL team coming to Toronto in the next decade are "pretty good."
-- Given 17 of 19 Toronto FC games were played in rain at BMO Field this season, "we've got to put an end to that, it's time to put a roof on BMO Field."
-- At the requests of the city of Toronto, which owns BMO Field, MLSE is looking at whether the venue can be changed to accommodate the CFL. "The Argos are part of a conversation, not a decision that's been made."

[ArgoFan1]

ArgoZ- no no no. we don't play Canadian Football by rules we took from the Americans. Our game is older than theirs. They modified the original rules to make their game the slow, boring game it is.

[ArgoZ]

ArgoZ- no no no. we don't play Canadian Football by rules we took from the Americans. Our game is older than theirs. They modified the original rules to make their game the slow, boring game it is.

As we have discussed before, the history of football is really interesting and how both games evolved on their own. True, the CDN game is older. The introduction of downs came from the Americans. From the shores of Lake Erie, the forward pass was introduced about 10 years before we started using it. We played rugby and the Americans slowly changed it, making up football as it is today, with us inheriting a lot of their rules.

[argolio]

As we have discussed before, the history of football is really interesting and how both games evolved on their own. True, the CDN game is older. The introduction of downs came from the Americans. From the shores of Lake Erie, the forward pass was introduced about 10 years before we started using it. We played rugby and the Americans slowly changed it, making up football as it is today, with us inheriting a lot of their rules.

McGill introduced a version of downs when they took their game to Harvard in 1874. McGill also introduced running with the ball and tackling. Before that the American game was mostly kicking the ball back and forth.

Walter Camp, a legend in American football, refined that in the next decade and was the key figure who standardized the rules of the game in the U.S.

[ArgoZ]

McGill introduced a version of downs when they took their game to Harvard in 1874. McGill also introduced running with the ball and tackling. Before that the American game was mostly kicking the ball back and forth.

Walter Camp, a legend in American football, refined that in the next decade and was the key figure who standardized the rules of the game in the U.S.

Ok to be more specific, it was not the "downs for distance" we see today. The "downs" back then were like Rugby "stops". The Americans originally introduced 3 downs for 5 yards. The Canadians really copied or adopted many American rules. Today's modern game is more American than Canadian. It rarely resembles the Canadian "Rugby game" we introduced them too.

[argos1873]

The world refers to the system of downs and forward pass game, as American football, to differentiate from football (soccer). Canadians are North Americans, so it is proper. As much as we would like to take credit for inventing the game, the version we play today is made up from mostly American rules.

Its true that most of the world may refer to football played in North America as American football, but the proper way to refer generically to both games is Gridiron football.

As we have discussed before, the history of football is really interesting and how both games evolved on their own. True, the CDN game is older. The introduction of downs came from the Americans. From the shores of Lake Erie, the forward pass was introduced about 10 years before we started using it. We played rugby and the Americans slowly changed it, making up football as it is today, with us inheriting a lot of their rules.

Exactly. Canadians invented a form of Rugby, the Americans took it and quite rapidly changed it, and with the introduction of import players, coaches and executives, the Canadians changed their game to closely resemble the American one, which continues to this day. So to say they are playing our game is correct. But so is saying we are playing theirs.

[OV Argo]

Its true that most of the world may refer to football played in North America as American football, but the proper way to refer generically to both games is Gridiron football.



Exactly. Canadians invented a form of Rugby, the Americans took it and quite rapidly changed it, and with the introduction of import players, coaches and executives, the Canadians changed their game to closely resemble the American one, which continues to this day. So to say they are playing our game is correct. But so is saying we are playing theirs.

Football - wether the American or Canadian version - both adopted from rugby and subject to many changes over the years - is a uniquely North American sport - there is no official or better version of the game, and one version is just not a copy of the other - not even close - and IMO it is silly to think so.

There is Canadian football and there is American football - both great versions of a game and with their own distinct rules - thank gawd for this variety (I like and appreciate both versions of the game and am glad they are each their own - wayyyyy to much sameness in a lot of things today IMO)..

Canadian football just does not - IMO - get the respect it deserves for it's consistent quality and historical signifigance (not just the CFL but Canadian University ball, Junior ball, all the levels of minor ball down thru all the people who play the game, like adult touch football or just kids chucking the ball around in the park - and IMO again - that this happens in it's own country is sad and pathetic ; and we can thank the many wannabes and lemmings in the media up here for this. Canadians are constantly reminded how hockey is "Canada's game" and that is a great sport with so much history here. Not enough people get, however, that football is every bit as much a Canadian sport as hockey is. Pity, eh ?