New Stadium Locations

[Neely2005]

As a resident of Pickering, I think our city should be considered. There is tons of room near the newly renovated GO station (where the large secondary parking lot is which the city is planning to remove for "growth"), that is 30 minutes from downtown on the express Lakeshore East line (40 minutes non-express). This area is also literally right off the 401 (making it a 20-30 minute drive for anyone in Toronto that lives near the 401). It would also be relatively easy to build a 401 off ramp right at the location. For anyone who is unfamiliar with the area, use Google Maps to check the travel time to the intersection of Liverpool and Bayly. I bet it's not that long of a time. The location would be very easily accessible for anyone near the Lakeshore GO line or the 401, which is a very large portion of people. It would also be able to draw on Durham Region's 500k+ population, the northern suburbs of Markham, Richmond Hill and Vaughan, and would undoubtedly draw people from as far east as Peterborough. I'd argue that the western side of the Toronto, and Mississauga, are too close to Hamilton as well.

Just another idea to consider.

Edit: What the area looks like right now: https://maps.google.ca/?ll=43.833575...12,233.52,,0,0. The other side of that dead end is the 401.

Sure if all the games are on Saturday or Sunday. On a weekday during the afternoon rush hours triple it.

The 401 through Toronto is the busiest stretch of highway in all of North America.

[ArgosFanEastSide]

So the Argos should abandon fans in those regions? We should all become Ticat fans?

I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. Rather, that the suburbs west of Toronto/Mississauga are more likely to be Tiger-cats fans than those on the eastern side. Taking the GO train from south Mississauga/Etobicoke, or taking the 401 from the north to Pickering would not be too long of a trip on the weekends.

Sure if all the games are on Saturday or Sunday. On a weekday during the afternoon rush hours triple it.

The 401 through Toronto is the busiest stretch of highway in all of North America.

I don't see any reason why all of their games couldn't be played on Saturdays and Sundays. I'm sure a significant factor in why they play on weekdays is because they are in the Rogers Center. If we're making the assumption that they are going to start many of their games during rush hour on weekdays, I think you can write off any area outside of downtown.

I laugh anytime anyone proposes the stadium be located in their backyard.

I'm not sure why. People who live in the area are much more likely to know fine details relating to it. I never said any other ideas weren't better, I was simply suggesting a new location that no one else had discussed.

[Neely2005]

I guess I wasn't clear on what I meant. Rather, that the suburbs west of Toronto/Mississauga are more likely to be Tiger-cats fans than those on the eastern side. Taking the GO train from south Mississauga/Etobicoke, or taking the 401 from the north to Pickering would not be too long of a trip on the weekends.



I don't see any reason why all of their games couldn't be played on Saturdays and Sundays. I'm sure a significant factor in why they play on weekdays is because they are in the Rogers Center. If we're making the assumption that they are going to start many of their games during rush hour on weekdays, I think you can write off any area outside of downtown.



I'm not sure why. People who live in the area are much more likely to know fine details relating to it. I never said any other ideas weren't better, I was simply suggesting a new location that no one else had discussed.

TSN Friday Night Football?

Vaughan, Downsview and eventually Richmond Hill will all be accessible via TTC Subway. They're already accessible via GO Train and Bus / High Speed Bus and aside from Downsview they have better highway access and are in Toronto or closer to Toronto.

[ArgosFanEastSide]

TSN Friday Night Football?

Vaughan, Downsview and eventually Richmond Hill will all be accessible via TTC Subway. They're already accessible via GO Train and Bus / High Speed Bus and aside from Downsview they have better highway access and are in Toronto or closer to Toronto.

Friday Night Football is just a title, it could literally instantly be changed to TSN Saturday Night Football.

I can think of equal negatives to all of those locations. None of them are along the GO Lakeshore line, which is how a very significant amount of Argos fans currently get to the games. Getting to those locations during rush hour (if you're sticking to the weekday games argument) for anyone driving would be just as awful.

In the end, none of the locations are perfect. Someone is always going to disagree with the decision, and yet I think any of those locations would do well. I just believe that Pickering would work just as well.

[intoronto]

I don't agree BMO Field is the best option for the Argos. BMO Field is a soccer specific facility and should be left as is (besides the FC fans are objecting the idea already). What the Argos need is a 25,000-30,000 seat facility built somewhere accessible by transit. York University maybe?

[paulwoods13]

I don't agree BMO Field is the best option for the Argos. BMO Field is a soccer specific facility and should be left as is (besides the FC fans are objecting the idea already). What the Argos need is a 25,000-30,000 seat facility built somewhere accessible by transit. York University maybe?

Welcome to the site. Feel free to peruse the many threads that have dealt with this issue and continue to do so. Here is a summary of the salient points:

Everyone seems to accept that York is not an option. The team itself has said the footprint for a potential stadium there is too small.

Some fans believe the best options are in the North (such as Downsview, Woodbine, Vaughan or Markham) because they are easily accessible by car. Other say no location requiring a drive is truly easily accessible in Toronto's congested traffic.

Some fans say BMO is ideal because it accessible by highway and transit from all directions. (This of course is predicated on the stadium being rebuilt to accommodate Cdn football.) Others say BMO is a pain in the a-- to get to by car and transit.

Some fans believe that direct public transit from all directions must be available, as it is now. Others say it's OK to have one or two transit options (such as subway and Viva or whatever the regional public transit is called in the north) but not necessary to make the game easily accessible to those who now take GO Transit on the Lakeshore line.

A few other ideas have been floated (such as stadium in Mississauga, Oakville or now Pickering) but there does not seem to be any consensus in favour of those.

Some fans say they are sure that Braley will build his own stadium in the North. Others say they are sure Braley will not spend his own money on a stadium.

Some fans think being bought by MLSE (and moving into BMO) would be ideal because the team would have wealthy owners who would make merchandise available and support the team regardless. Others say being owned by MLSE would be a complete disaster because its teams never win.

Have I forgotten anything?

[Argo57]

I don't agree BMO Field is the best option for the Argos. BMO Field is a soccer specific facility and should be left as is (besides the FC fans are objecting the idea already). What the Argos need is a 25,000-30,000 seat facility built somewhere accessible by transit. York University maybe?

Hence the $100 million BMO renovation being discussed, I see a pretty decent amount of Argonaut fans taking the Go Train from Burlington and increasing (as Paul stated) as you go east. Stadium has to be centrally located to suit the masses, I wouldn't be remotely interested in travelling to Pickering to see them play.
FC fans can object all they want but if the hypothetical MLSE purchase comes to fruition then it will become a dual purpose stadium.

[Will]

I laugh anytime anyone proposes the stadium be located in their backyard.

[doubleblue]

For fans from the west or east end a new stadium has to be at BMO for the GO Train or Downsview or Vaughan so people could drive. People in downtown TO could get there by subway. If they do go to the north central, I would want to see a good sized parking lot so I could drive. Wouldn't make sense to get on the GO for 55 minutes to Union and then have to jump on the subway to go north for another 50 minutes. I could drive in probably 30 minutes max.

[Qman]

My sense is it comes down to if your a driver or transit user:

The BMO option is assumed at retrofitted stadium to bring it up to professional standards. If you believe MLSE, Two england-style roofs, upgraded seats, expanding seating/boxes, to 25-30k are a must. Closer to IGF in winnipeg. You get transit access and Friday night games are an option, but you have to scheduling conflicts with TFC and field turn over time.

Vaughan-ish ultra-suburan option would be bare bones Tim Hortons Field style. 90% drive-in/drive-out. Probably saturday night/day games only for traffic. You get the dates you want and control the facility. You can combine the stadium with practice facility are other pluses.

[Neely2005]

My sense is it comes down to if your a driver or transit user:

The BMO option is assumed at retrofitted stadium to bring it up to professional standards. If you believe MLSE, Two england-style roofs, upgraded seats, expanding seating/boxes, to 25-30k are a must. Closer to IGF in winnipeg. You get transit access and Friday night games are an option, but you have to scheduling conflicts with TFC and field turn over time.

Vaughan-ish ultra-suburan option would be bare bones Tim Hortons Field style. 90% drive-in/drive-out. Probably saturday night/day games only for traffic. You get the dates you want and control the facility. You can combine the stadium with practice facility are other pluses.

Vaughan has highways and transit.

400, 407, 427, 7, 27 & 50.

TTC Subway stops, Viva High Speed busses and YRT.

Existing shopping, restaurants and parking.

The new stadium should be in the downtown Toronto area so that fans can enjoy the downtown area with countless quality restaurants plus the usual " chain " restaurants. Numerous out of town fans attend the games and spend the day & night . Games should be saved for Fr Sat nights /Sat & Sun afternoons .

So not at BMO Field then as the only decent sized restaurant near by is Shoeless Joes at King and Dufferin and that's about a 15 minute walk.

I guess that you would also have the Food Building during the CNE but you also lose parking and highway access from Dufferin and Strachan Avenue / Princes Gate.

Vaughan has those restaurants already.

Contrary to one post in this thread...Downsview is not a 50 minute subway ride from Union Stadium. At most it's a 25 minute ride by transit and even car from some parts of downtown. If out of town fans spend day and night, it's definitely possible to enjoy a downtown restaurant close to your downtown hotel and then take one conveniant subway ride (with no transfers) to a possible stadium in Downsview which could have a natural tailgate atmosphere. That could work, much better than dealing with a horrible parking situation downtown, horrible traffic with closed streets, and another event like a basketball game like we had last Sunday...the supposed accessible walk to the stadium from Union Station can be 20 minutes on P.A.T.H when you take account of all the detours and stairs that you go through while walking because of the construction that seems to never end...that's about the same length of time that it would take for a nice comfortable ride on a TTC subway from Union to Downsview....and if you're driving, you have highways that move in all directions with no lake preventing traffic from moving in all 4 cardinal directions. Many stadiums in many major cities are not located downtown...Giants/Jets Stadium is not even in New York State, let alone New York City.

What highway access does Downsview have?

Go a couple more stops on that Subway line and you'll be in Vaughan with real highway access.

[argolio]

At best people call BMO a bare-bones stadium. At worst they call it a P.O.S.

The proposed BMO reno calls for the stands to be covered. Some Argo fans would love a completely outdoor stadium, but others are ambivalent about an outdoor stadium after being in the dome for 25+ years. I think covered stands would be a compromise that would satisfy most fans.

The number of bells and whistles will ultimately depend on funding, and as with the location of a new stadium, we'll only find that out when there is something to announce.

[ArgoRavi]

The commissioner talks about a new stadium for the Argonauts:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...ce_cox.bb.html

Yep, and it is BMO Field, not surprisingly, that appears to be the focus.

[Neely2005]

Yep, and it is BMO Field, not surprisingly, that appears to be the focus.

"The CFL says business is better than ever and wants monolithic Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment to join the party.
And what does MLSE think of this?
Not so fast, says Tim Leiweke, not so fast.
Specifically, says MLSE’s chief executive officer, it’s not primarily the sports conglomerate’s call on whether the Argos should join Toronto FC as a tenant at BMO Field on the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, which is very much what CFL commissioner Mark Cohon would like to see happen.
“I wouldn’t put a line in the sand and say (the Argos) have to be downtown but it would be great if that came to fruition,” said Cohon on Friday in his state-of-the-league address at the 101st Grey Cup.

Cohon said there was “definitely lots of interest” from nearby municipalities in becoming the new home of the Argos after they move out of the Rogers Centre in 2017, although he wasn’t willing to name any of them."

He was, however, more than happy to toss the names of MLSE and BMO Field out front and centre, which seemed to throw the pigskin into Leiweke’s lap.
“The city drives this issue, not us,” said Leiweke in an interview from South Carolina. “We don’t own the stadium.”
The city’s a little busy these days putting out brush fires in the mayor’s office, so nobody’s quite sure what municipal politicians feel about this matter.

For MLSE, it’s a piping hot potato. The long-suffering fans of Toronto FC absolutely detest the notion of their home stadium — built at a cost of $62 million — being renovated to fit the needs of a CFL franchise.
After years of losing and growing fan disenchantment, Leiweke is listening to TFC supporters, which means saving the Argos isn’t on his priority list.
“Our first focus has been and continue to be how we fix BMO Field for soccer,” he said. “That has to be highest priority. We have to make it better than it is for soccer. We can’t ask our fans to sacrifice their views or their environment.
“Our soccer fans get mad at us when this football thing comes up, and we are not going to declare war on our fans.”

[Ron]

The commissioner talks about a new stadium for the Argonauts:

http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...ce_cox.bb.html

He probably should have kept his big trap shut about MLSE the way he did about the other options..

[Gill The Thrill]

He probably should have kept his big trap shut about MLSE the way he did about the other options..

I agree, he should've kept his mouth shut about MLSE, it makes the CFL and Cohon come across as desperate...How would you also feel if you were another nearby municipality who was interested in building a stadium facility for the Argos...I'd feel pissed if I was a developer or mayor of a nearby municipality who was courting the Argos.

Because of Cohon's big mouth seeing him go go-goo-ga-ga over the prospects of the Greatest sports empire (said with tongue in cheek, believe me) owning the Argos, I seriously question whether there are any other options being discussed...I could be proven and in many ways I hope I am. I personally don't want to see the Argos as a second tennant to an MLS soccer team, under the MLSE umbrella. Some on here may believe that the Argos may have a higher profile, but the other argument could be that they will be just as marginalized and buried under the other MLSE sports properties.

Remember MLSE also owns the Marlies, and ask yourself if you want an owner that will treat the Argos as a cherished property with their own stadium, which is what an independent owner would do, or ask yourself if you want MLSE to perhaps treat the Argos as a 2nd class property like they do the Marlies in comparison to Leafs, Raptors and even God forbid...TFC.

PS- speaking of TFC, would MLSE also change the name of this sorry franchise if they buy the Argos. They would then own 2 football teams, one in Association football (soccer) and one in Canadian Gridiron Football. I was never a fan of the TFC name because of this...TSC ok, Toronto FC was a cheap ploy to pretend to be Liverpool FC. Even their Red uniforms was made to copy this and so is there nickname as they are referred to as the Reds....Hmm, "Reds", no wonder why I'm not a fan.

What highway access does Downsview have?

Go a couple more stops on that Subway line and you'll be in Vaughan with real highway access.

Pretty much all the ones you mentioned...the biggest highway in Canada and the 2nd busiest freeway in North America being the 401 is a stone's through from Downsview, the 400, the Allen Expressway, The DVP and 404, Black Creek Drive, Hwy 427, not just the 27....it's also relatively close to the Vaughan (Hwy7) as
corridor, and there are many alternative city routes that could dissipate traffic from many directions.

I think Downsview is an excellent compromise...the team would still be in the middle of Toronto and not be more than a half hour north of it's present location. If Vaughan is serious then that's fine, I'd be willing to go west toward those empty parcels of land on 427 and 7 or at Woodbine, but then it no longer becomes a direct route from Union Station.

As I've said before, it's to the point where they've just got to get out of that dome for Regular season games and maybe even playoff games if they can no longer be accomadated at the dome...their presence is invisible at the dome now during the season. Let's not even pretend that the Argos have a huge following in Downtown compared to the 416 burbs and 905 burbs...half the Argo fans showed up late last week because of the snarled traffic downtown. Had it not been for the Ticat faithful, which saddens me to say, the attendance for the Eastern Final would have been embarrassing. Possibly lower than the awful Eastern Final attendance to close out the CNE in 1988.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree, he should've kept his mouth shut about MLSE, it makes the CFL and Cohon come across as desperate...How would you also feel if you were another nearby municipality who was interested in building a stadium facility for the Argos...I'd feel pissed if I was a developer or mayor of a nearby municipality who was courting the Argos.

Because of Cohon's big mouth seeing him go go-goo-ga-ga over the prospects of the Greatest sports empire (said with tongue in cheek, believe me) owning the Argos, I seriously question whether there are any other options being discussed...I could be proven and in many ways I hope I am.

Follow the money, folks. There are no options other than BMO Field. Braley isn't putting one cent of his own money into a brand new, $200 million stadium and we have ample evidence in this country that other private interests aren't going to either unless the governments at various levels contribute the lion's share and that is not happening in Downsview, Vaughn, etc. You might be able to get some government money to upgrade BMO but that is all you are going to get from taxpayers.

[Argocister]

I haven't voted as to a specific location here, as whatever is best for the team should dictate the location.
I live 1-1.5 hrs from downtown, so if the stadium is moved still within the same driving distance I will still go.
The Argos are in a unique situation, as most other teams do not have the choice.

Downtown Location: Often when there is a game i will make a day or two visit to the downtown core (except of course for the midweek games ... Thursday isnt bad) .... there are so many options for a couple day visit that I am surprised that the city of Toronto doesn't recognize that. I'm not going to Hamilton for a couple of days.... maybe Montreal ..... but Toronto downtown does offer that to the Argos fans that will not be replaced by heading out to the burbs. Yes I will still visit the downtown core, but I definitly go more frequently with the Argo games.

Outside Location: I will probably still go to a burb location as well.It will not be the couple day venue but if it allows tailgating .... I can manage a DD, and have my tailgating stuff ready .... I can still bring people.

I really hope the Argos do their homework and find out what the fans like of each location, which fans will be affected by their choice. Are the newer fans coming from the burbs? .... You know the full SWOT analysis. Once done, then lets not settle for second best.... do what is best for the Argos and their fans. I am sure Rudge is doing this.

[Will]

Ah the SWOT analysis. Biggest cliche in business school along with Michael Porter's five forces and Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

[rdavies]

Ah the SWOT analysis. Biggest cliche in business school along with and Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Oh man you made me laugh there. Good ol Abe Maslow. That damn triangle came up in every business course I took.

MLS is the top level of football in North America.

No, Mexican League ranked higher

To put it even more bluntly, if you come here to call our league as being "minor" when the MLS salary cap is lower than the CFL's.

Even more crazy, the CFL's TV ratings are much higher on the Deuce (ESPN 2) than MLS.