View Poll Results: Where should the new Argonauts Stadium be located?

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  • Richmond Hill

    3 5.26%
  • Markham

    3 5.26%
  • Vaughan

    7 12.28%
  • Woodbine Racetrack

    4 7.02%
  • York University

    2 3.51%
  • Downsview

    13 22.81%
  • BMO Field

    19 33.33%
  • Other

    6 10.53%
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    Quote Originally Posted by intoronto View Post
    I don't agree BMO Field is the best option for the Argos. BMO Field is a soccer specific facility and should be left as is (besides the FC fans are objecting the idea already). What the Argos need is a 25,000-30,000 seat facility built somewhere accessible by transit. York University maybe?
    Welcome to the site. Feel free to peruse the many threads that have dealt with this issue and continue to do so. Here is a summary of the salient points:

    Everyone seems to accept that York is not an option. The team itself has said the footprint for a potential stadium there is too small.

    Some fans believe the best options are in the North (such as Downsview, Woodbine, Vaughan or Markham) because they are easily accessible by car. Other say no location requiring a drive is truly easily accessible in Toronto's congested traffic.

    Some fans say BMO is ideal because it accessible by highway and transit from all directions. (This of course is predicated on the stadium being rebuilt to accommodate Cdn football.) Others say BMO is a pain in the a-- to get to by car and transit.

    Some fans believe that direct public transit from all directions must be available, as it is now. Others say it's OK to have one or two transit options (such as subway and Viva or whatever the regional public transit is called in the north) but not necessary to make the game easily accessible to those who now take GO Transit on the Lakeshore line.

    A few other ideas have been floated (such as stadium in Mississauga, Oakville or now Pickering) but there does not seem to be any consensus in favour of those.

    Some fans say they are sure that Braley will build his own stadium in the North. Others say they are sure Braley will not spend his own money on a stadium.

    Some fans think being bought by MLSE (and moving into BMO) would be ideal because the team would have wealthy owners who would make merchandise available and support the team regardless. Others say being owned by MLSE would be a complete disaster because its teams never win.

    Have I forgotten anything?

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    Quote Originally Posted by intoronto View Post
    I don't agree BMO Field is the best option for the Argos. BMO Field is a soccer specific facility and should be left as is (besides the FC fans are objecting the idea already). What the Argos need is a 25,000-30,000 seat facility built somewhere accessible by transit. York University maybe?
    Hence the $100 million BMO renovation being discussed, I see a pretty decent amount of Argonaut fans taking the Go Train from Burlington and increasing (as Paul stated) as you go east. Stadium has to be centrally located to suit the masses, I wouldn't be remotely interested in travelling to Pickering to see them play.
    FC fans can object all they want but if the hypothetical MLSE purchase comes to fruition then it will become a dual purpose stadium.

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    My sense is it comes down to if your a driver or transit user:

    The BMO option is assumed at retrofitted stadium to bring it up to professional standards. If you believe MLSE, Two england-style roofs, upgraded seats, expanding seating/boxes, to 25-30k are a must. Closer to IGF in winnipeg. You get transit access and Friday night games are an option, but you have to scheduling conflicts with TFC and field turn over time.

    Vaughan-ish ultra-suburan option would be bare bones Tim Hortons Field style. 90% drive-in/drive-out. Probably saturday night/day games only for traffic. You get the dates you want and control the facility. You can combine the stadium with practice facility are other pluses.

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    Thanks for the welcome !

    Quote Originally Posted by Argo57 View Post
    Hence the $100 million BMO renovation being discussed, I see a pretty decent amount of Argonaut fans taking the Go Train from Burlington and increasing (as Paul stated) as you go east. Stadium has to be centrally located to suit the masses, I wouldn't be remotely interested in travelling to Pickering to see them play.
    FC fans can object all they want but if the hypothetical MLSE purchase comes to fruition then it will become a dual purpose stadium.

    Wouldn't you rather spend $100 million on a new stadium?

    The York University site is not the current Pan Am Stadium. There is lands surrounding the university where a stadium can easily be sloted in. Two transit slots are there and its very close to a highway. I think its a win win as its accessible by car and transit, while being close to the 905.

    Woodbine could also work, as the Woodbine Live redevelopment didn't work out, however its only accessible by car. What if someone doesn't have a car? A site needs to cater to people with cars and those who will commute with transit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by intoronto View Post
    Thanks for the welcome !




    Wouldn't you rather spend $100 million on a new stadium?

    The York University site is not the current Pan Am Stadium. There is lands surrounding the university where a stadium can easily be sloted in. Two transit slots are there and its very close to a highway. I think its a win win as its accessible by car and transit, while being close to the 905.

    Woodbine could also work, as the Woodbine Live redevelopment didn't work out, however its only accessible by car. What if someone doesn't have a car? A site needs to cater to people with cars and those who will commute with transit.
    A new stadium would cost $200 million or more, if MLSE chooses to purchase the Argos and spend $100 million on the Reno so be it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Argo57 View Post
    A new stadium would cost $200 million or more, if MLSE chooses to purchase the Argos and spend $100 million on the Reno so be it.
    I keep seeing this $200 million number. It seems to be the general consensus. Can anyone tell me why? BMO Field's construction cost was $67.6 million and everyone is saying that set up would be fine. I mean sure, if you're going to throw all the bells and whistles on it will cost more, but I think it could be done for less.

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    At best people call BMO a bare-bones stadium. At worst they call it a P.O.S.

    The proposed BMO reno calls for the stands to be covered. Some Argo fans would love a completely outdoor stadium, but others are ambivalent about an outdoor stadium after being in the dome for 25+ years. I think covered stands would be a compromise that would satisfy most fans.

    The number of bells and whistles will ultimately depend on funding, and as with the location of a new stadium, we'll only find that out when there is something to announce.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Welcome to the site. Feel free to peruse the many threads that have dealt with this issue and continue to do so. Here is a summary of the salient points:

    Everyone seems to accept that York is not an option. The team itself has said the footprint for a potential stadium there is too small.

    Some fans believe the best options are in the North (such as Downsview, Woodbine, Vaughan or Markham) because they are easily accessible by car. Other say no location requiring a drive is truly easily accessible in Toronto's congested traffic.

    Some fans say BMO is ideal because it accessible by highway and transit from all directions. (This of course is predicated on the stadium being rebuilt to accommodate Cdn football.) Others say BMO is a pain in the a-- to get to by car and transit.

    Some fans believe that direct public transit from all directions must be available, as it is now. Others say it's OK to have one or two transit options (such as subway and Viva or whatever the regional public transit is called in the north) but not necessary to make the game easily accessible to those who now take GO Transit on the Lakeshore line.

    A few other ideas have been floated (such as stadium in Mississauga, Oakville or now Pickering) but there does not seem to be any consensus in favour of those.

    Some fans say they are sure that Braley will build his own stadium in the North. Others say they are sure Braley will not spend his own money on a stadium.

    Some fans think being bought by MLSE (and moving into BMO) would be ideal because the team would have wealthy owners who would make merchandise available and support the team regardless. Others say being owned by MLSE would be a complete disaster because its teams never win.

    Have I forgotten anything?
    That's a pretty good summary. I think that the only thing that you forgot to mention is the TTC Subway extension that will be opening in Vaughan.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArgosFanEastSide View Post
    I keep seeing this $200 million number. It seems to be the general consensus. Can anyone tell me why? BMO Field's construction cost was $67.6 million and everyone is saying that set up would be fine. I mean sure, if you're going to throw all the bells and whistles on it will cost more, but I think it could be done for less.
    I don't think that there were any land costs for BMO though.




    The commissioner talks about a new stadium for the Argonauts:

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...ce_cox.bb.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    The commissioner talks about a new stadium for the Argonauts:

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...ce_cox.bb.html
    Yep, and it is BMO Field, not surprisingly, that appears to be the focus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgosFanEastSide View Post
    I keep seeing this $200 million number. It seems to be the general consensus. Can anyone tell me why? BMO Field's construction cost was $67.6 million and everyone is saying that set up would be fine. I mean sure, if you're going to throw all the bells and whistles on it will cost more, but I think it could be done for less.

    The Pan-Am stadium in Hamilton is costing something like $150M, with no land cost, and it looks pretty bare-bones to me. Based on that, I think with land costs, a new Toronto stadium would cost well above $150M.

    BMO as it stands now is not the quality of stadium we'd want long-term, although with the rumoured upgrades (projected to cost $100M) it could be a very nice long-term home for us.

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    The new stadium should be in the downtown Toronto area so that fans can enjoy the downtown area with countless quality restaurants plus the usual " chain " restaurants. Numerous out of town fans attend the games and spend the day & night . Games should be saved for Fr Sat nights /Sat & Sun afternoons .

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    The Pan-Am stadium in Hamilton is costing something like $150M, with no land cost, and it looks pretty bare-bones to me. Based on that, I think with land costs, a new Toronto stadium would cost well above $150M.

    BMO as it stands now is not the quality of stadium we'd want long-term, although with the rumoured upgrades (projected to cost $100M) it could be a very nice long-term home for us.
    Are you referring to Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton. It does not look that bare bones to me...it has more walls and finished structure than BMO field, which is described by one poster on here as a "mechano standium". BMO as it stands now is not CFL calibre because of the seating. Surely a CFL stadium in Toronto should have more than 21,000 capacity, and probably no less than 30k, but at the very least 27-28K with an ability to expand to host Grey Cups. This needs to be considered if Rogers Centre changes their turf to natural grass but also changes their rotating 100 level sections to fix them permanently to baseball seating. That would pretty much ruin the football or soccer sightlines at Rogers Centre.

    If bare bones means not having an unnecessary hotel built, or bronze gargoyles on the outside or carpeting on the concourse, then that's fine with me. Many of the great stadiums in other places don't have those and they provide a great atmosphere, better than any atmosphere the RC has.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyice View Post
    The new stadium should be in the downtown Toronto area so that fans can enjoy the downtown area with countless quality restaurants plus the usual " chain " restaurants. Numerous out of town fans attend the games and spend the day & night . Games should be saved for Fr Sat nights /Sat & Sun afternoons .
    Contrary to one post in this thread...Downsview is not a 50 minute subway ride from Union Stadium. At most it's a 25 minute ride by transit and even car from some parts of downtown. If out of town fans spend day and night, it's definitely possible to enjoy a downtown restaurant close to your downtown hotel and then take one conveniant subway ride (with no transfers) to a possible stadium in Downsview which could have a natural tailgate atmosphere. That could work, much better than dealing with a horrible parking situation downtown, horrible traffic with closed streets, and another event like a basketball game like we had last Sunday...the supposed accessible walk to the stadium from Union Station can be 20 minutes on P.A.T.H when you take account of all the detours and stairs that you go through while walking because of the construction that seems to never end...that's about the same length of time that it would take for a nice comfortable ride on a TTC subway from Union to Downsview....and if you're driving, you have highways that move in all directions with no lake preventing traffic from moving in all 4 cardinal directions. Many stadiums in many major cities are not located downtown...Giants/Jets Stadium is not even in New York State, let alone New York City.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    The commissioner talks about a new stadium for the Argonauts:

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...ce_cox.bb.html
    He probably should have kept his big trap shut about MLSE the way he did about the other options..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill View Post
    Are you referring to Tim Hortons Field in Hamilton. It does not look that bare bones to me...it has more walls and finished structure than BMO field, which is described by one poster on here as a "mechano standium". BMO as it stands now is not CFL calibre because of the seating. Surely a CFL stadium in Toronto should have more than 21,000 capacity, and probably no less than 30k, but at the very least 27-28K with an ability to expand to host Grey Cups. This needs to be considered if Rogers Centre changes their turf to natural grass but also changes their rotating 100 level sections to fix them permanently to baseball seating. That would pretty much ruin the football or soccer sightlines at Rogers Centre.

    If bare bones means not having an unnecessary hotel built, or bronze gargoyles on the outside or carpeting on the concourse, then that's fine with me. Many of the great stadiums in other places don't have those and they provide a great atmosphere, better than any atmosphere the RC has.
    Yes, I'm referring to THF, and yes, I think it's going to be pretty bare bones (and certainly not the "state-of-the-art" stadium it has been touted to be). That's not to say it won't have a great atmosphere. But I think it's naïve to think a good-enough stadium can be built in Toronto for $150M if that's what's being built in Hamilton WITH NO LAND COST.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArgoRavi View Post
    Yep, and it is BMO Field, not surprisingly, that appears to be the focus.
    "The CFL says business is better than ever and wants monolithic Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment to join the party.
    And what does MLSE think of this?
    Not so fast, says Tim Leiweke, not so fast.
    Specifically, says MLSE’s chief executive officer, it’s not primarily the sports conglomerate’s call on whether the Argos should join Toronto FC as a tenant at BMO Field on the Canadian National Exhibition grounds, which is very much what CFL commissioner Mark Cohon would like to see happen.
    “I wouldn’t put a line in the sand and say (the Argos) have to be downtown but it would be great if that came to fruition,” said Cohon on Friday in his state-of-the-league address at the 101st Grey Cup.

    Cohon said there was “definitely lots of interest” from nearby municipalities in becoming the new home of the Argos after they move out of the Rogers Centre in 2017, although he wasn’t willing to name any of them."

    He was, however, more than happy to toss the names of MLSE and BMO Field out front and centre, which seemed to throw the pigskin into Leiweke’s lap.
    “The city drives this issue, not us,” said Leiweke in an interview from South Carolina. “We don’t own the stadium.”
    The city’s a little busy these days putting out brush fires in the mayor’s office, so nobody’s quite sure what municipal politicians feel about this matter.

    For MLSE, it’s a piping hot potato. The long-suffering fans of Toronto FC absolutely detest the notion of their home stadium — built at a cost of $62 million — being renovated to fit the needs of a CFL franchise.
    After years of losing and growing fan disenchantment, Leiweke is listening to TFC supporters, which means saving the Argos isn’t on his priority list.
    “Our first focus has been and continue to be how we fix BMO Field for soccer,” he said. “That has to be highest priority. We have to make it better than it is for soccer. We can’t ask our fans to sacrifice their views or their environment.
    “Our soccer fans get mad at us when this football thing comes up, and we are not going to declare war on our fans.”
    Last edited by Neely2005; 11-24-2013 at 09:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paulwoods13 View Post
    Yes, I'm referring to THF, and yes, I think it's going to be pretty bare bones (and certainly not the "state-of-the-art" stadium it has been touted to be). That's not to say it won't have a great atmosphere. But I think it's naïve to think a good-enough stadium can be built in Toronto for $150M if that's what's being built in Hamilton WITH NO LAND COST.
    Not again. We already had this discussion before and yes I do think THF is bare bones. Not as bad as BMO but I agree it is not state of the art.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qman View Post
    My sense is it comes down to if your a driver or transit user:

    The BMO option is assumed at retrofitted stadium to bring it up to professional standards. If you believe MLSE, Two england-style roofs, upgraded seats, expanding seating/boxes, to 25-30k are a must. Closer to IGF in winnipeg. You get transit access and Friday night games are an option, but you have to scheduling conflicts with TFC and field turn over time.

    Vaughan-ish ultra-suburan option would be bare bones Tim Hortons Field style. 90% drive-in/drive-out. Probably saturday night/day games only for traffic. You get the dates you want and control the facility. You can combine the stadium with practice facility are other pluses.
    Vaughan has highways and transit.

    400, 407, 427, 7, 27 & 50.

    TTC Subway stops, Viva High Speed busses and YRT.

    Existing shopping, restaurants and parking.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnnyice View Post
    The new stadium should be in the downtown Toronto area so that fans can enjoy the downtown area with countless quality restaurants plus the usual " chain " restaurants. Numerous out of town fans attend the games and spend the day & night . Games should be saved for Fr Sat nights /Sat & Sun afternoons .
    So not at BMO Field then as the only decent sized restaurant near by is Shoeless Joes at King and Dufferin and that's about a 15 minute walk.

    I guess that you would also have the Food Building during the CNE but you also lose parking and highway access from Dufferin and Strachan Avenue / Princes Gate.

    Vaughan has those restaurants already.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill The Thrill View Post
    Contrary to one post in this thread...Downsview is not a 50 minute subway ride from Union Stadium. At most it's a 25 minute ride by transit and even car from some parts of downtown. If out of town fans spend day and night, it's definitely possible to enjoy a downtown restaurant close to your downtown hotel and then take one conveniant subway ride (with no transfers) to a possible stadium in Downsview which could have a natural tailgate atmosphere. That could work, much better than dealing with a horrible parking situation downtown, horrible traffic with closed streets, and another event like a basketball game like we had last Sunday...the supposed accessible walk to the stadium from Union Station can be 20 minutes on P.A.T.H when you take account of all the detours and stairs that you go through while walking because of the construction that seems to never end...that's about the same length of time that it would take for a nice comfortable ride on a TTC subway from Union to Downsview....and if you're driving, you have highways that move in all directions with no lake preventing traffic from moving in all 4 cardinal directions. Many stadiums in many major cities are not located downtown...Giants/Jets Stadium is not even in New York State, let alone New York City.
    What highway access does Downsview have?

    Go a couple more stops on that Subway line and you'll be in Vaughan with real highway access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neely2005 View Post
    What highway access does Downsview have?

    Go a couple more stops on that Subway line and you'll be in Vaughan with real highway access.
    A real highway access that'll cost $15-20 per way for those coming from Oakville or Durham region. IMO, the 407 shouldn't enter the equation of being hwy access to a stadium. I live right by the 407, and do often take it, but man do I grumble when I get my monthly bill.
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    MLSE will be buying the Argos.... Tim has to save face with the soccer fans a little bit here.. The Argos wil be at BMO field by 2015 in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AngeloV View Post
    A real highway access that'll cost $15-20 per way for those coming from Oakville or Durham region. IMO, the 407 shouldn't enter the equation of being hwy access to a stadium. I live right by the 407, and do often take it, but man do I grumble when I get my monthly bill.
    Sounds like the round trip cost for 2 people on the TTC or GO Transit.

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