TV ratings

[argos1873]

I only looked at the numbers posted that appear on this page of the thread, but if you notice ONLY the NFL games on CTV ever draw the big numbers, the TSN numbers are always down around 400,000. The big CFL games, all on TSN draw double that. Remember, not everyone gets TSN, while almost everyone gets CTV. I wonder what the CFL numbers would look like if CTV carried a game or so a week.

[ArgoRavi]

I only looked at the numbers posted that appear on this page of the thread, but if you notice ONLY the NFL games on CTV ever draw the big numbers, the TSN numbers are always down around 400,000. The big CFL games, all on TSN draw double that. Remember, not everyone gets TSN, while almost everyone gets CTV. I wonder what the CFL numbers would look like if CTV carried a game or so a week.

It continues to bother me that there are no CFL games on CTV. Your question is a valid one for sure. I seem to recall reading as of a couple of years ago that CTV reaches 3 million more homes than TSN and I doubt that has changed much over the last couple of years. I have also noticed that the Bell Media family of stations seems to promote the NFL much more than the CFL. I watch CTV NewsNet quite a bit and they almost always talk NFL on their sports segments but almost never talk CFL. CTV NewsNet is as related to TSN as it is to the main CTV network so I just don't understand the disparity in their coverage of the two leagues. Being a Toronto-based network probably explains it though.

[argos1873]

I seem to recall reading as of a couple of years ago that CTV reaches 3 million more homes than TSN and I doubt that has changed much over the last couple of years.

I will bet it has changed, albeit it maybe not much, but not in the direction you doubted it changed much. With more and more people cutting the cord, less and less people will have access to TSN, and more and more people will have CTV as one of the few channels they do have access to, with OTA HDTV becoming a trend. I bet you Friday Night Football would kill some ratings if it were on CTV instead of TSN.

[Neely2005]

It's the same thing with the Grey Cup and the Super Bowl. The Greg Cup is on TSN, the Super Bowl is on CTV.

[argos1873]

It's the same thing with the Grey Cup and the Super Bowl. The Greg Cup is on TSN, the Super Bowl is on CTV.

I almost have to say conspiracy that Bell doesn't put the Grey Cup on CTV. There's millions of more viewers available for such a high level event, but it never happens. What other reason?

[ArgoRavi]

Does anyone know how much CTV pays for the NFL TV rights? Is it more or less than what TSN pays the CFL for its rights?

[Qman]

I almost have to say conspiracy that Bell doesn't put the Grey Cup on CTV. There's millions of more viewers available for such a high level event, but it never happens. What other reason?

its bell's strategy. They put the Grey Cup on TSN and some chick event on CTV at the same time to dominate ratings. can't do that with superbowl because they can only simulcast the game with a CTV channel.

[rdavies]

I agree with most of the opinions expressed above re CTV vs TSN. It seems CTV can put almost any American drivel in prime time and it will get huge ratings (maybe the southern Ontario influence, I don't know). Remember, they actually allowed Corner Gas into their prime time lineup and it also drew huge numbers. I always wondered why CTV's inferior network newscast drew so much better than the seemingly more high profile CBC.

However sinister we think CTV airing the Super Bowl over the Grey Cup may be, I don't think it is Bell that has sinister intentions about why they do that. The problem is, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when it get so much more exposure over the Grey Cup on TSN which just drives its popularity all the more.

Also remember that it has been only the last few years that the Super Bowl has out-rated the Grey Cup. Before that it wasn't even close.

I have posted at other sites my thoughts on cord pulling, I'm one of them. I can't think of anything that I can't see in one way or another using rabbit ears or a good Internet connection. I only get three OTA channels (no CBC but Radio Canada). If I lived in Toronto it would be a goldmine of free HDTV channels but most of it is the American drivel I don't want to watch anyway.

[Neely2005]

I agree with most of the opinions expressed above re CTV vs TSN. It seems CTV can put almost any American drivel in prime time and it will get huge ratings (maybe the southern Ontario influence, I don't know). Remember, they actually allowed Corner Gas into their prime time lineup and it also drew huge numbers. I always wondered why CTV's inferior network newscast drew so much better than the seemingly more high profile CBC.

However sinister we think CTV airing the Super Bowl over the Grey Cup may be, I don't think it is Bell that has sinister intentions about why they do that. The problem is, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy when it get so much more exposure over the Grey Cup on TSN which just drives its popularity all the more.

Also remember that it has been only the last few years that the Super Bowl has out-rated the Grey Cup. Before that it wasn't even close.

I have posted at other sites my thoughts on cord pulling, I'm one of them. I can't think of anything that I can't see in one way or another using rabbit ears or a good Internet connection. I only get three OTA channels (no CBC but Radio Canada). If I lived in Toronto it would be a goldmine of free HDTV channels but most of it is the American drivel I don't want to watch anyway.

A lot of people avoid CBC News (and the Toronto Star) because it's to left wing biased for their tastes.

The Grey Cup used to be on CBC which like CTV is a free over the air channel.

[rdavies]

The Grey Cup used to be on CBC which like CTV is a free over the air channel.

The Grey Cup used to be simulcast on both networks using a different set of commentators for each half (see video at 4:12)

[argonaut11xx]

A lot of people avoid CBC News (and the Toronto Star) because it's to left wing biased for their tastes.

The Grey Cup used to be on CBC which like CTV is a free over the air channel.

Truer words have never been spoken. (highlighted above)

I actually enjoyed the days when CTV, and CBC would swap at halftime of the Grey Cup. Pat Marsden was AWESOME

[rdavies]

The CBC, I think, has mirrored the country to a certain extent. We were always more of a conservative country, when conservative wasn't a bad word and the concept wasn't bastardized by the Americans.

I'm not sure when you can say we started to become a very left wing country, we've always had leftist policies but the road to being annoyingly leftist came much later after Trudeau. As the USA became more right wing we became more leftist, hard to define timelines, though.

I always hated Pat Marsden. There was a time when he would say what university any American would come from no matter how un-noteworthy, but you wouldn't hear anything about a Canadian. Dunigan does that somewhat today and unfortunately it seems to be rearing its ugly head again because of the ESPN deal.

It makes me wonder sometimes, if these guys will ever get the concept, Canadians want to see Canadians.

[Invader]

The CBC, I think, has mirrored the country to a certain extent. We were always more of a conservative country, when conservative wasn't a bad word and the concept wasn't bastardized by the Americans.

I'm not sure when you can say we started to become a very left wing country, we've always had leftist policies but the road to being annoyingly leftist came much later after Trudeau. As the USA became more right wing we became more leftist, hard to define timelines, though.

I always hated Pat Marsden. There was a time when he would say what university any American would come from no matter how un-noteworthy, but you wouldn't hear anything about a Canadian. Dunigan does that somewhat today and unfortunately it seems to be rearing its ugly head again because of the ESPN deal.

It makes me wonder sometimes, if these guys will ever get the concept, Canadians want to see Canadians.

Yep, the pandering to the ESPN audience is a bit much to take sometimes...and unfortunately Suits, who is the best colour-man in the business, is one of the worst offenders.

In the good-old days, it was decreed through a Parliamentary Order that the Grey Cup must be carried on both national networks (CBC and CTV), so all Canadians had the opportunity to watch the big game (not sure what happened to that?) Back then the Super Bowl was merely an afterthought in Canada, not "THE GREATEST EVENT IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND"...bom, bom, bommmm, as it is hyped by Canada's media today.

[paulwoods13]

We've been over this before but again, Bell's objective is to maximize its audience. The combined audience of Grey Cup on TSN and entertainment programming on CTV is higher -- arguably much higher -- than the combined audience of Grey Cup on CTV and some other sporting event on TSN. Entertainment programs shown on Sunday evenings in November can draw 2 million or more viewers on CTV through simultaneous substitution with a U.S. network. If CTV showed the Grey Cup, those viewers would just watch the entertainment show on a U.S. network -- they would not magically switch into Grey Cup viewers. There would be some Canadians added to the potential GC audience by virtue of the fact that they get CTV and don't get TSN, but it would not be comparable in size to what happens now. And we can be sure that whatever other sports program TSN showed while the Grey Cup was on would not come close to drawing millions of viewers.

[AngeloV]

We've been over this before but again, Bell's objective is to maximize its audience. The combined audience of Grey Cup on TSN and entertainment programming on CTV is higher -- arguably much higher -- than the combined audience of Grey Cup on CTV and some other sporting event on TSN. Entertainment programs shown on Sunday evenings in November can draw 2 million or more viewers on CTV through simultaneous substitution with a U.S. network. If CTV showed the Grey Cup, those viewers would just watch the entertainment show on a U.S. network -- they would not magically switch into Grey Cup viewers. There would be some Canadians added to the potential GC audience by virtue of the fact that they get CTV and don't get TSN, but it would not be comparable in size to what happens now. And we can be sure that whatever other sports program TSN showed while the Grey Cup was on would not come close to drawing millions of viewers.

Definitely a tough balancing act, but if the advertising dollars they receive for 30 second spot are considerably higher for the Grey Cup than they are for whatever they put on CTV against it, they may actually be costing themselves some money. I have no way of knowing, but you would think they can demand a higher price for the commercials if the games was on CTV.

[rdavies]

There was a time when viewing something culturally significant such as the Grey Cup was in the national interest and that it would be made available to as large an audience as possible. Sadly those days are gone and the power has shifted from the license granting bodies to the provider themselves. It's a shame that these guys aren't scared about losing their license like everybody was in the olden days, then you'd see some accountability.

When I was in the biz (a hundred years ago) any written complaints were put in a folder (with the license). Let me tell you it didn't take too many letters to get a show in trouble.

The license also had a practical use. I once used it as a booster seat to raise NDP leader Ed Broadbent in his chair to match the scene on the background.

[paulwoods13]

Definitely a tough balancing act, but if the advertising dollars they receive for 30 second spot are considerably higher for the Grey Cup than they are for whatever they put on CTV against it, they may actually be costing themselves some money. I have no way of knowing, but you would think they can demand a higher price for the commercials if the games was on CTV.

First of all, I doubt the ad dollars would have that sort of discrepancy. A show like, for instance, The Amazing Race has loyal viewers who are valuable to advertisers. And the other half of that equation would be, what could TSN charge advertisers on a Sunday night when whatever it programmed was up against the Grey Cup? TSN's ratings would not be high as most serious and casual sports fans would watch the Grey Cup. Again, it's the combined revenue from two networks under either scenario that has to be considered. I believe revenue is higher with ent programming on CTV and GC on TSN than it would be with GC on CTV and some other sports event (presumably the NFL Sunday nighter) on TSN.

[argotom]

I almost have to say conspiracy that Bell doesn't put the Grey Cup on CTV. There's millions of more viewers available for such a high level event, but it never happens. What other reason?

Don't almost say it?
I have been saying this for years.
It has to be a calculated move by Bell to keep the CFL "down" on the cable like channel versus the main network.
However, we can blame the likes previously of Tom Wright and now Cohon also for not negotiating properly by demanding how CTV should have shown the GC and playoffs on CTV.
On top of it, let's all remember the CFL on the lower TSN seen network still draws huge numbers and is up against the usual competition of hockey, NFL and NBA.
Meanwhile the No Funners have cleared the deck and all other sporting league, no kidding in the US and even here for Canadian NHL teams, are scared to go up against them.
So there is no competition for the viewing audience and it still barely beats the CFL numbers.

[argolio]

A lot of people avoid CBC News (and the Toronto Star) because it's to left wing biased for their tastes.

Regarding the CBC, those people are called morons.

Don't almost say it?
I have been saying this for years.
It has to be a calculated move by Bell to keep the CFL "down" on the cable like channel versus the main network.
However, we can blame the likes previously of Tom Wright and now Cohon also for not negotiating properly by demanding how CTV should have shown the GC and playoffs on CTV.
On top of it, let's all remember the CFL on the lower TSN seen network still draws huge numbers and is up against the usual competition of hockey, NFL and NBA.
Meanwhile the No Funners have cleared the deck and all other sporting league, no kidding in the US and even here for Canadian NHL teams, are scared to go up against them.
So there is no competition for the viewing audience and it still barely beats the CFL numbers.

As if Bell would purposely keep its own property "down". If Bell is calculating anything, it's how to maximize revenue.

If the CFL demanded to get on CTV and was rejected, what then? What other network(s) is taking 81 regular season and 5 playoff games?

[ArgoRavi]

Don't almost say it?
I have been saying this for years.
It has to be a calculated move by Bell to keep the CFL "down" on the cable like channel versus the main network.
However, we can blame the likes previously of Tom Wright and now Cohon also for not negotiating properly by demanding how CTV should have shown the GC and playoffs on CTV.
On top of it, let's all remember the CFL on the lower TSN seen network still draws huge numbers and is up against the usual competition of hockey, NFL and NBA.
Meanwhile the No Funners have cleared the deck and all other sporting league, no kidding in the US and even here for Canadian NHL teams, are scared to go up against them.
So there is no competition for the viewing audience and it still barely beats the CFL numbers.

A couple of things I will agree with you on, AT, is that I wish that the league could have negotiated something with TSN to have CTV at least simulcast the Grey Cup. I will also agree with you that the Grey Cup has far more competition up against it than the Super Bowl. There was a time in the 1980s when the NHL wouldn't go up against the Grey Cup. I am almost certain that there were no NHL games in 1983 up against the Argo Grey Cup victory and I am also fairly sure that wasn't the only year where the NHL scheduled no games to go against the Grey Cup. Today the NHL has no problem scheduling Canadian NHL teams up against the Grey Cup. CTV and other Canadian networks will aggressively counter-program against the Grey Cup. When Super Bowl time comes though, everyone else runs and hides.