Brutal, just brutal

[ArgoRavi]

I thought Flemons was going to back much sooner (in TC) when Barker said you never know when he was released. Carter kind of regressed this season and played his way out of the lineup IMO. His back was always turned on every big play. Robinson has played multiple positions this season and I would say he just had a bad game today. Bryant may have made that catch in the endzone but I don't disagree with the decision in starting Chiles. Say what you want about Barnes but when games are close and the team needs to get a first down, Barnes is money and Ray has always looked to him in such situations. Going deep to Owens has never worked.

Robinson did have a tough game today but it begs the question as to why Watkins wasn't covering Fantuz. I am totally perplexed on that one. Perhaps Jones needs to take the defence down a notch with all of his wild schemes. I believe that he may have been guilty of over-thinking both today and over the course of the season.

[AngeloV]

Very disappointing. I hate to say it, but Jones blew it. Steinauer made the adjustments needed at the half, and Jones did not. It seems to me, that Jones is too busy trying to trick the other team, rather than let some good players just play football. I personally hope he lands a HC job in either Winnipeg or Edmonton. Love to see our defence aloud to just play.

Felt bad for Ray. He took a lot of hits in the 2nd half today.

On the bright side, nice day for Spencer Watt and Durie (after the opening KO).

It's killing me to say this, but go Ti-Cats next week.

[Argo57]

Good points by everybody on the defense. It is hard to tell without knowing the inside scoop why there was so much turn over on defense this year. It did seem to come back to bite Chris Jones though. Did the guys that retired really want to or were they pushed? Did the couple who left as FA's do it for money or didn't want to play for Jones? I know with the SMS teams are always looking for cheaper players so they can pay the key players on the roster, but you have to keep some key veterans and work the rookies in gradually IMO. I'm with Ravi on Flemons. He had a great season in 2011, wasn't quite there with sacks in 2012, but if I remember correctly he was always putting pressure on the QB's. Would have looked better in the rotation than what we saw today. I really questioned some of the personal moves today. History shows that playoff games are rough on rookies as the pressure seems to get to them. Would Colclough and Carter have been a better fit at DB than Thorpe and Robinson? Should Romby Bryant been dressed to alternate with Childs? I don't think Bryant would have turned the wrong way on the deep pass the Childs misplayed. 20/20 is great hind sight but I was disappointed with some of the roster moves and play calling today. But time to move on to the expansion draft.

I suspect Jones can be difficult to work with thus several key guys leaving after last season.

[AaronInToronto]

Most Ti-Cats fans were fine. There were some stupid ass-hats there, but can say that of any Toronto Council meeting or Queens Parks session too.

[Antwon]

Hear hear. Hamilton fans really are the worst in the league. Bad enough we had to watch the Argos crash and burn in slow motion today, but to do it with a bunch of classless mouth-breathers in attendance takes the piss.

As an Argo fan sitting in section 240 TiCat fans were fine! Lots go back and forth chants in the spirit of the game.

[Antwon]

[QUOTE=AngeloV;40709]Very disappointing. I hate to say it, but Jones blew it. Steinauer made the adjustments needed at the half, and Jones did not. It seems to me, that Jones is too busy trying to trick the other team, rather than let some good players just play football. I personally hope he lands a HC job in either Winnipeg or Edmonton.

I wonder how starting Maybin went over? The guys only been around for a fee weeks.
It might rub some guys who have been here since training camp the wrong way.

[AngeloV]

Very disappointing. I hate to say it, but Jones blew it. Steinauer made the adjustments needed at the half, and Jones did not. It seems to me, that Jones is too busy trying to trick the other team, rather than let some good players just play football. I personally hope he lands a HC job in either Winnipeg or Edmonton.

I wonder how starting Maybin went over? The guys only been around for a fee weeks.
It might rub some guys who have been here since training camp the wrong way.

I don't think it was a problem at all, especially considering how little production they've had there all year. He was very good.

[DanTheFan]

I must be in the minority because I had zero problems with Hamilton fans. I did see a scuffle behind the endzone in the 100 zone.

No problems with me either. I was applying my blue facepaint in the washroom at the GO Station, and they were all pretty cool about it (there were tons of people from Hamilton that just arrived at that moment). Even after the game, nobody really came and rubbed it it our faces except for an older man who said "You guys look blue" when joking about our makeup, but it was all in good fun.

I was disappointed that the Argo fans in attendance weren't showing nearly as much passion as the Ti-Cat fans. I was in section 114, and my brother and I were among only a few in the neighboring sections that consistently were up and making noise for the defence. It's a problem with Toronto sports fans in general, they rarely engage in the game on their own doing and just wait for the good to happen without showing much encouragement.

That being said, the Argos lost that one on their own.

[Argo]

Very disappointing. I hate to say it, but Jones blew it. Steinauer made the adjustments needed at the half, and Jones did not. It seems to me, that Jones is too busy trying to trick the other team, rather than let some good players just play football.I personally hope he lands a HC job in either Winnipeg or Edmonton. Love to see our defence aloud to just play.

!!! +1 !!!

[Gill The Thrill]

!!! +1 !!!

!!!!!!!+2!!!!!!

It's one thing for Scott Milanovich to be outcoached by Kent Austin, but another when a veteran DC like Chris Jones is outcoached by by Hamilton DC, Orlondo Steinauer. What a joke...this game was doomed once Milanovich decided to not go for that 3rd and 1 after Ray got caught just shy of a first down running on 2nd and 10 with about 6 minutes left. Milanovich basically was coaching not to lose and that's always a blueprint for failure.

What really clinched the loss was that stupid decision to take the holding penalty? That essentially gave the Ticats another chance to keep possession at 2nd and 16, instead of forcing them to make a decision at 3rd and 6, to either try a long field goal, or punt for the coffin corner to hem the Argos deep in their zone. Had they made the FG, the Argos would have had possibly 2 possessions down by 6. At worse the Ticats could have punted for the coffin corner successfully and even then, the Argos would have started deep in their own territory but be only down by 3 at 27-24 with over 3 minutes left.

Instead Milanovich makes the idiotic decision to take the penalty, stupidly not remembering that his defense has been on the field for a disproportionate amount of time in the 2nd half and were noticeably wilting. Marcus Ball who was all over the field and easily the Argos best all-around performer on defence was dying and huffing and puffing by that time, yet Milanovich chooses to put his defense under pressure by forcing them to defend another down at 2nd and long, instead of forcing the Cats to either go for a long FG or punt. The Ticats get the first down, not only score an eventual FG from closer in, but worst of all, kill another 2 minutes off the clock giving the Argos only 1 possession with under 2 minutes to march downfield for a major.

Believe it or not, The Ticats almost squandered their clock management and did not get the first down after getting the ball back with 57 seconds left. Even in the final play, Owens makes the incorrect decision to run toward the middle of the field when he should have ran straight for the near sideline after fielding the punt with 5 seconds left. He may not have made it out of bounds , (I think he would've) but did he think he was going to run by the entire special teams unit that had him pinned near the corner. He should have attempted to run straight to the sideline a'la Jan Carinci in the '84 Eastern Final and hope that a second, which I think was realistic, would have remained. More realistic than trying to get a punt-return TD in that mess of a final play. If he had beaten the clock then Ray could have loaded all the receivers to one side and then try the laterals after hopefully completing a pass...instead they ended the game giving the Cats another TD....making the score look even worse.

[paulwoods13]

Here are the thoughts I wrote (on Twitter) after the game; some in response to other tweets. Obviously somewhat randomly ordered:

Hate to admit it but Ham def deserved to win. Kept it close in 1st half and dominated 2nd. Their offence crushed our D in 2nd.

You can't win without the ball. Allowing Ham to have it for 40 minutes was critical.

Ricky can't win when he's on sideline for 40 min, 24 in one half. No D, no Cup, simple as that.

Face it. We have not had anything close to a championship-calibre D all season. Let some key guys go and didn't replace them adequately.

Last year our line and LBs stuffed Cornish. We couldn't stop Gable when it mattered and got little pressure apart from 4 sacks.

Jones thinks he's smarter than he is. Crazy to play without DEs all year, and drop 300-pders into cvge.

Not the 1st time this team has been outcoached against Ham this year.

No running game and no Kackert to block allowed Ham to take a lot of hard shots on Ricky in 2nd. May have been hurting on bad throws late.

Started with some protection breakdowns, IMO. Ricky did not stay clean and started throwing too soon.

To me Ricky looked rattled from all the pressure he had been facing. May have been dinged on one earlier hit.

Chiles looked confused out there. Went away from Durie in the second half. Ricky no time to check down.

Last possession Argos had four import receivers plus Durie and Norwood. Why not try that earlier? Maybe get a few passes to Barnes.

That FG drive in 2nd Q really stings still. Go up by 18 at that point, outcome might have been much diff.

Would love to know if SM or CJ made that decision (to accept the holding penalty).

I will be cheering for Ham next wk. Good for the CFL if Argos and Cats win back to back.

Time to focus on getting a good return for Zach. Muamba and a 1st sounds about right.

[1argoholic]

From day one I've been talking about player turnover. Too much and Jones obviously things he's so smart that he can just keep ditching talent and plugging in new guys. It does work in the long run. With a few tweaks we should have the best D in the league to go along with Ricky Ray. That would be unstoppable.
You have to wonder why Horn and Issacs were tossed away. Show to much care and passion. Horn may have gotten a bit of a big head but we missed him. Well Go Cats Go! Screw Rider Nation and Cohon with his love in.

[Neely2005]

!!!!!!!+2!!!!!!

It's one thing for Scott Milanovich to be outcoached by Kent Austin, but another when a veteran DC like Chris Jones is outcoached by by Hamilton DC, Orlondo Steinauer. What a joke...this game was doomed once Milanovich decided to not go for that 3rd and 1 after Ray got caught just shy of a first down running on 2nd and 10 with about 6 minutes left. Milanovich basically was coaching not to lose and that's always a blueprint for failure.

What really clinched the loss was that stupid decision to take the holding penalty? That essentially gave the Ticats another chance to keep possession at 2nd and 16, instead of forcing them to make a decision at 3rd and 6, to either try a long field goal, or punt for the coffin corner to hem the Argos deep in their zone. Had they made the FG, the Argos would have had possibly 2 possessions down by 6. At worse the Ticats could have punted for the coffin corner successfully and even then, the Argos would have started deep in their own territory but be only down by 3 at 27-24 with over 3 minutes left.

Instead Milanovich makes the idiotic decision to take the penalty, stupidly not remembering that his defense has been on the field for a disproportionate amount of time in the 2nd half and were noticeably wilting. Marcus Ball who was all over the field and easily the Argos best all-around performer on defence was dying and huffing and puffing by that time, yet Milanovich chooses to put his defense under pressure by forcing them to defend another down at 2nd and long, instead of forcing the Cats to either go for a long FG or punt. The Ticats get the first down, not only score an eventual FG from closer in, but worst of all, kill another 2 minutes off the clock giving the Argos only 1 possession with under 2 minutes to march downfield for a major.

Believe it or not, The Ticats almost squandered their clock management and did not get the first down after getting the ball back with 57 seconds left. Even in the final play, Owens makes the incorrect decision to run toward the middle of the field when he should have ran straight for the near sideline after fielding the punt with 5 seconds left. He may not have made it out of bounds , (I think he would've) but did he think he was going to run by the entire special teams unit that had him pinned near the corner. He should have attempted to run straight to the sideline a'la Jan Carinci in the '84 Eastern Final and hope that a second, which I think was realistic, would have remained. More realistic than trying to get a punt-return TD in that mess of a final play. If he had beaten the clock then Ray could have loaded all the receivers to one side and then try the laterals after hopefully completing a pass...instead they ended the game giving the Cats another TD....making the score look even worse.

Nice analysis. That's the thing that bothers me about our Head Coach. He's always so conservative. We saw it in the last regular season game too. 3rd and 1 and he doesn't go for it. He's the opposite of Kent Austin.

[ArgoRavi]

Nice analysis. That's the thing that bothers me about our Head Coach. He's always so conservative. We saw it in the last regular season game too. 3rd and 1 and he doesn't go for it. He's the opposite of Kent Austin.

I am glad that Gill raised this but it was actually a third and two. Having said that, the thought crossed my mind that the Argos should go for it there and try to get some momentum back. Of course, the downside of not making it would not have been good and there was still 6 or 7 minutes left in the game. Milanovich does tend to be a little conservative in those situations but we did win a Grey Cup last year and came within a game of another GC appearance this year so his approach has worked pretty well.

[Ballstothewall]

Lori Bursey's sarcastic yells of "Jones, you're a genius!" at the game in Guelph sure look prescient. Truth is, CJ deserves a hell of a lot of blame for what went wrong this year. He is the primary recruiter and never found adequate talent on defence, and his schemes were mostly terrible. No defensive ends, no pass rush and 300-pound linemen dropping into pass coverage. Guess what, Chris -- it turns out you're actually NOT smarter than everyone else.

Bang on Paul, i sat there watching a 4 man rush, thinking OK, he going to send the house on this play, nothing, No presure AT ALL on the QB, and on 1 of their sacks, Burris triped himself after baout 7 seconds. Just bad D. You can not win in the CFL by sending only your 4 D lineman on each play. The odd time he did send a blitz, it was 1 LB. The shine is off MR Jones and so may be any shot at a HC with this last outing

[Neely2005]

I am glad that Gill raised this but it was actually a third and two. Having said that, the thought crossed my mind that the Argos should go for it there and try to get some momentum back. Of course, the downside of not making it would not have been good and there was still 6 or 7 minutes left in the game. Milanovich does tend to be a little conservative in those situations but we did win a Grey Cup last year and came within a game of another GC appearance this year so his approach has worked pretty well.

Don't get me wrong I like Milanovich quite a lot. I just think he needs to be more aggressive on the 3rd and 1's. Try, and make them stop us rather than just giving up.

[Argo]

I couldn't agree more with all these posted observations. This really shoddy effort by Milanovich, Jones, and Brady constituted team suicide.
Yes, the personnel needs to be upgraded before next season rolls around (and for crying out loud, get some real Defensive Ends!), but crappy coaching sold this set of players far short.

[tc23]

Yup!!!!!!!!!

[doubleblue]

I agree with the Coaching blunders but when the Argos got that first down on the Hamilton 44 with over a minute to go I thought we had the game. Still can't believe Ricky Ray could miss three passes in a row. I would have like to see Ricky call his own game right about there. I don't think he would go over the middle three times in a row. His specialty has always been dropping that ball into a receiver's hands near the sidelines or corner end zone where the defender is blocked out and can't get a hand on it. But it wasn't to be.

[ArgoRavi]

I agree with the Coaching blunders but when the Argos got that first down on the Hamilton 44 with over a minute to go I thought we had the game. Still can't believe Ricky Ray could miss three passes in a row. I would have like to see Ricky call his own game right about there. I don't think he would go over the middle three times in a row. His specialty has always been dropping that ball into a receiver's hands near the sidelines or corner end zone where the defender is blocked out and can't get a hand on it. But it wasn't to be.

For all that went wrong in the second half, when we got the ball back with over a minute left, I honestly believed that the offence would drive down for the winning TD. My greatest concern was that we would leave too much time on the clock for Burris. On the first play, Ray hit Owens for a nice gain plus Owens drew a 15 yard facemasking penalty and I really thought that we were in business there with first down at the Hamilton 44. Again, my greatest concern was not scoring too quickly. On the third down play, as I mentioned in another thread, Owens was open and it was the kind of play that Ray has successfully executed time and again this year. He simply missed the throw there.