Argos at BMO Field

**ArgoRedneck** · 11-30-2013, 06:15 PM

I got a tip and did some fishing and pretended I knew more than I did with some people on the in and with some really on the in. I' am not going to debate this but it sounds like I atleast will stop guessing. Looks like we will be at BMO field for 2015 season. I also got that the Argos will be on the road for a bit during the start of the season. My guess is that is because of a retro-fit. MLSE will own the Argos. Braley is the problem but the deal will get done.

If am wrong I will host a tailgate where we end up for the ACTIVE current members on this form.

**Invader** · 11-30-2013, 10:53 PM

Mr. Braley is rightfully asking $15 million to $20 million for the Argos because that's what CFL franchises were worth. That is probably on the low side considering the new TV contract. With the right operator, the Argos could become the most valuable franchise in the league. The Argos history of losing money will soon be ancient history, especially when you factor in multiple Grey Cups over the next few seasons in Toronto.

**Argocister** · 12-01-2013, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by ArgoRedneck

............ Braley is the problem but the deal will get done.

If am wrong I will host a tailgate where we end up for the ACTIVE current members on this form.

It would be interesting to know how Braley is the problem. Do you think he may be requiring the existence of the
Argos in the future in order for the contract to be finalized.... Somehow?
I am very skeptical of MLSE ownership , give a hypothetical situation where in 5 years the Bills owner has passed and they are more than willing to sell the team to MLSE. Of course the Argos are an irritant so could easily be closed down in order to bring the team eventually to TO. A 9 team league down to 8 ..... easy smeazee.

Mmmmm..... 15-20 million. If we all buy enough lotto max tickets we could purchase for 15 and still have 30 for operating expenses ....... Of course we would have to get a stadium location first.

Can we request certain items for the tailgate?

**ArgoGabe22** · 12-01-2013, 11:52 AM

Let's start a kickstarter project and raise the $20m ourselves.

**Argocister** · 12-01-2013, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by ArgoGabe22

Let's start a kickstarter project and raise the $20m ourselves.

We would need double to run the project.

**Neely2005** · 12-01-2013, 12:13 PM

Originally Posted by ArgoRedneck

I got a tip and did some fishing and pretended I knew more than I did with some people on the in and with some really on the in. I' am not going to debate this but it sounds like I atleast will stop guessing. Looks like we will be at BMO field for 2015 season. I also got that the Argos will be on the road for a bit during the start of the season. My guess is that is because of a retro-fit. MLSE will own the Argos. Braley is the problem but the deal will get done.

If am wrong I will host a tailgate where we end up for the ACTIVE current members on this form.

I really hope that this is Not true! MLSE sucks and so does BMO Field and it's location.

MLSE will run the Argonauts into the ground just like they've done with all their other sports teams and the Argonauts will be at the bottom of the MLSE pecking order.

Not to mention that MLSE wants an NFL team first and foremost.

**1argoholic** · 12-01-2013, 12:15 PM

I would think it would take more time than 2015 to get the place built to better standards. I really hope this is BS. I don't want to be just another team for some HUGE assed corporation for lack of a better word.
You'd think that some person who has grown up in the GTA as a huge Argo fan who's folks used to take him to games as a child made it big and could afford the team. Too bad it wasn't me.

I'll wait to see where the chips fall.

**AngeloV** · 12-01-2013, 01:02 PM

I think what you guys are failing to see here is that people aren't (and haven't in the past) been lining up to buy the Argos. I think that $20 million is a ridiculously high number to ask for a team that each of the last 2 owners have not paid a dime to take over. Braley has put money into it, but the fact remains, he took it over from C&S for nothing, just as they took it over from the league for nothing. If there was a bidding war for the team, I can understand the asking price. Unfortunately, there is no evidence to suggest that there is a bidding war or that there is even more than 1 interested party.

**ArgoGabe22** · 12-01-2013, 01:12 PM

I think $15M is a more realistic price and is what other teams have sold for recently (Stampeders).

**paulwoods13** · 12-01-2013, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by Neely2005

MLSE will run the Argonauts into the ground just like they've done with all their other sports teams and the Argonauts will be at the bottom of the MLSE pecking order.

Not to mention that MLSE wants an NFL team first and foremost.

Obviously you are referring to their on-field performance, because financially the two largest MLSE teams are hugely successful. Leafs are the top-ranked team in valuation by Forbes and make scads of money for the ownership group. While many on here are skeptical of Raptors attendance, I believe they are also a significant positive contributor to MLSE's bottom line. The Leafs and Raptors have not won championships or even playoff rounds in a long time, but that doesn't automatically translate to lack of on-field success for the Argos if they get bought by MLSE. It's way easier to win in an eight-team league than a 30-team league, and the amount the Argos cost to operate would be pocket change for MLSE. Assuming they do in fact want to be part of an NFL team coming to Toronto (and I do assume that), it would be far better for the Argos to be part of the organization, essentially run by MLSE for community goodwill and the recipient of cross-promotion and maybe even mandated ticket sales, than to be on the outside trying to compete with that financial juggernaut.

**AngeloV** · 12-01-2013, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by ArgoGabe22

I think $15M is a more realistic price and is what other teams have sold for recently (Stampeders).

Yes, but historically, the Stamps have been purchased for real dollars in the past as well. Sig Gutcshe (sp?) paid for them, then Federik paid for them, then the Forzani Group paid for them, and most recently the Flames organization also paid for them. When money changes hands on every ownership change, then the value has been established. Can't say the same about the Argos.

**Neely2005** · 12-01-2013, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by paulwoods13

Obviously you are referring to their on-field performance, because financially the two largest MLSE teams are hugely successful. Leafs are the top-ranked team in valuation by Forbes and make scads of money for the ownership group. While many on here are skeptical of Raptors attendance, I believe they are also a significant positive contributor to MLSE's bottom line. The Leafs and Raptors have not won championships or even playoff rounds in a long time, but that doesn't automatically translate to lack of on-field success for the Argos if they get bought by MLSE. It's way easier to win in an eight-team league than a 30-team league, and the amount the Argos cost to operate would be pocket change for MLSE. Assuming they do in fact want to be part of an NFL team coming to Toronto (and I do assume that), it would be far better for the Argos to be part of the organization, essentially run by MLSE for community goodwill and the recipient of cross-promotion and maybe even mandated ticket sales, than to be on the outside trying to compete with that financial juggernaut.

Yes I'm referring to the On Ice / On Field performance of MLSE Teams. The leafs are incredibly successful financially. The rest of the MLSE teams are not.

The leafs require Platinum Season Ticket holders to also buy Platinum Raptors Season Tickets so I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did the same thing with an NFL team.

**ArgoRedneck** · 12-01-2013, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by Argocister

It would be interesting to know how Braley is the problem. Do you think he may be requiring the existence of the
Argos in the future in order for the contract to be finalized.... Somehow?
I am very skeptical of MLSE ownership , give a hypothetical situation where in 5 years the Bills owner has passed and they are more than willing to sell the team to MLSE. Of course the Argos are an irritant so could easily be closed down in order to bring the team eventually to TO. A 9 team league down to 8 ..... easy smeazee.

Mmmmm..... 15-20 million. If we all buy enough lotto max tickets we could purchase for 15 and still have 30 for operating expenses ....... Of course we would have to get a stadium location first.

Can we request certain items for the tailgate?

Don't know what "Braley is the problem" ment was just told he was the problem. And that YES MLSE will be the owners and BMO is the location 2015. Just passing on what I got using a few investigative techniques I have learned.

And yes if I am wrong you will have drink and food choices. Laker or Laker Lite for drinks, and food will also be 2 choices... Eat it or don't eat it.

**paulwoods13** · 12-01-2013, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Neely2005

Yes I'm referring to the On Ice / On Field performance of MLSE Teams. The leafs are incredibly successful financially. The rest of the MLSE teams are not.

The leafs require Platinum Season Ticket holders to also buy Platinum Raptors Season Tickets so I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did the same thing with an NFL team.

Or maybe with a CFL team. (If that is in fact true.)

**ArgoRavi** · 12-01-2013, 06:51 PM

Originally Posted by ArgoRedneck

Don't know what "Braley is the problem" ment was just told he was the problem. And that YES MLSE will be the owners and BMO is the location 2015. Just passing on what I got using a few investigative techniques I have learned.

Media reports said this week that "Braley is the problem" in that he wants $20 million for the Argos which is a figure that MLSE is balking at.

**ArgoRedneck** · 12-01-2013, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by ArgoRavi

Media reports said this week that "Braley is the problem" in that he wants $20 million for the Argos which is a figure that MLSE is balking at.

Ricky Ray is worth a Million but it's the CFL and the Argos, can't justify it or will he get it (Braley that is).

**Invader** · 12-01-2013, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by AngeloV

I think what you guys are failing to see here is that people aren't (and haven't in the past) been lining up to buy the Argos. I think that $20 million is a ridiculously high number to ask for a team that each of the last 2 owners have not paid a dime to take over. Braley has put money into it, but the fact remains, he took it over from C&S for nothing, just as they took it over from the league for nothing. If there was a bidding war for the team, I can understand the asking price. Unfortunately, there is no evidence to suggest that there is a bidding war or that there is even more than 1 interested party.

I frankly doubt Mr. Braley didn't pay a dime to take over the Argos. Cynamon has said they paid a couple of million to buy the Argos (which was likely used to pay key creditors). Braley likely called in his Line of Credit he held with C & S. They either had to pay off the loan or turn over the Argos to Braley, which was held as security for the loan. So Braley probably had to eat that loan (i.e. $2.5 million), then pay off outstanding creditors to keep the operation going. So to say they bought the Argos for nothing is likely false. Cynamon was very upset about losing the team and said in a recent article he wouldn't answer the phone if Braley called. It was also reported that S. Shwartz also paid a couple of million to buy the Argos.

The franchise valuation benchmark was set with the Flames purchase of the Stamps. They paid a widely-reported $15 million to increase their ownership stake from 5% to 70%...which puts the Stamps value at $20 million. This is for a club which had turned a consistent $1 million to $3 million profit for about 10 years.

Braley pegged the value of the Lions at $25 million, which had turned similar profits to the Stamps, but were the prime tenant in $800-million retractable dome stadium.

What are the Argos worth? Only what somebody is willing to pay for them. I can almost guarantee MLSE wanted to buy the Argos for nothing (or better yet have Braley give them a $2M LOC for the privilege of MLSE taking over the team) MLSE stated goal was to bring a NFL team to Toronto...and the TFC fan experience must be improved with any move of the Argos to BMO (but that conversation hasn't even started.) So we can see where the Argos would fit into the MLSE hierarchy.

I believe the Argos have been losing $1-3 million over the past few years (not including Grey Cup profits of a reported $10M to $12M), but the organization has been swimming in quicksand. The Rogers/MLSE monopoly had blocked and diminished the Argos chances of regaining a foothold in the market. But with MLSE onside, important doors could be opened, if only a crack, if they chose to do so.

That is the risk and also the reward.