Argos at BMO Field

[bluto]

well, you've done it.

you've actually made a thread more pointless than the ones you started all of that stadium-location debate pissing matches in back when you joined here at the end of the season.

what is it with you and debating issues where the outcome is already decided?

we have a 25k (ish) stadium which will soon get rubber stamped. talking about how many seats you'd like is moot.

i thought back then that you were an MLS troll trying to sow dissention but have since reconsidered my standpoint. i now think that you're an Argo fan that has no idea how you're making Argo fans look in front of our soon-to-be new owner and the co-tenants who want no part of us being in "their" house.

the cat is already out of the bag.

the horse has left the barn.

you missed the bus.

please, quit giving people who don't like us and want to play us off as something other than what we are (which is a great sporting club with an enviable history and a following larger than any soccer team on this continent) ammunition to show us as clueless ingrates. please.

i'd have IGF 2.0 in Downsview if i could... but since we aren't, it's pointless to wish and hope for something else. we are getting an outdoor, roofed stadium where we ought to get more favorable dates and more parking. PW13 is right, looking gift horse in the mouth is always a bad thing to do.

[doubleblue]

Well If they play the games on Tuesday nights 20,000 would be more than enough. Weekend games 30,000. When Argos sold out the old Exibition Stadium that seated 33,000 the games were always on the weekend.

[Neely2005]

well, you've done it.

you've actually made a thread more pointless than the ones you started all of that stadium-location debate pissing matches in back when you joined here at the end of the season.

what is it with you and debating issues where the outcome is already decided?

we have a 25k (ish) stadium which will soon get rubber stamped. talking about how many seats you'd like is moot.

i thought back then that you were an MLS troll trying to sow dissention but have since reconsidered my standpoint. i now think that you're an Argo fan that has no idea how you're making Argo fans look in front of our soon-to-be new owner and the co-tenants who want no part of us being in "their" house.

the cat is already out of the bag.

the horse has left the barn.

you missed the bus.

please, quit giving people who don't like us and want to play us off as something other than what we are (which is a great sporting club with an enviable history and a following larger than any soccer team on this continent) ammunition to show us as clueless ingrates. please.

i'd have IGF 2.0 in Downsview if i could... but since we aren't, it's pointless to wish and hope for something else. we are getting an outdoor, roofed stadium where we ought to get more favorable dates and more parking. PW13 is right, looking gift horse in the mouth is always a bad thing to do.

If you don't like the subject then why bother posting in the Thread?

[Will]

I have to agree with Bluto as well. I do not understand the timing of this thread.

[rdavies]

what is it with you and debating issues where the outcome is already decided?

we have a 25k (ish) stadium which will soon get rubber stamped. talking about how many seats you'd like is moot.

This is true. Just wondering why people are voting on it?

As for BMO, most TFC fans have been quite reasonable about it, but there are a few jerks who, I have to admit, I like rubbing the result (Argos moving in) into. But for the most part those few are uninformed, hoolie wannabes.

[ArgoGabe22]

This is true. Just wondering why people are voting on it?

Well, we can always draw up our own blueprints of "Argoland" or whatever 1argoholic called it.

[rdavies]

should be a MUCH faster turnaround time for BMO than robbers centre.

I don't think so, the turf will need a lot of TLC, seeding, watering, mowing, aerating, possibly the use of heat lamps, and painting or paint removing.

One thing I've found interesting is that for years the soccer knobs have stated how tough football is on turf, ruining it for them. And now we come to find out that the head groundskeeper at Wembley (and he oughta know) is saying that soccer is much harder on the turf (turning with the ball) and goalkeepers and their area, and that the hybrid Desso GrassMaster system stands up very well to the type of movement that you see in North American football.

Another myth bites the dust.

[Neely2005]

I have to agree with Bluto as well. I do not understand the timing of this thread.

Yet you voted in the Poll?

[paulwoods13]

Here's my vote -- whatever the seating capacity for football is in BMO.

[rdavies]

Yet you voted in the Poll?

And you posted it. It's like those goofs in Hamilton who keep posting an old render for their new stadium that wasn't even seriously considered, actually two different renders now that I think about.

FFS, get over it. It's 25k! And as much as I'm pimping the Argos wherever I can, they'll have a hard enough time getting 25k in their crazy market.

[LLB997]

I am fine with less than 25. Once the novelty of the New Argos stadium wears off and lets say the team is a .500 club or worse and missing the playoffs semi regularily then we are bound to see lots of empty seats. And I would rather see a 23 thousand seat stadium full during those times than a 28 thou stadium with 5000 empty seats to kill the atmosphere.

[Fumblitis]

I am fine with less than 25. Once the novelty of the New Argos stadium wears off and lets say the team is a .500 club or worse and missing the playoffs semi regularily then we are bound to see lots of empty seats. And I would rather see a 23 thousand seat stadium full during those times than a 28 thou stadium with 5000 empty seats to kill the atmosphere.

Yeah this true. I was at the West Semi final and we had 11000 mt seats even though 33000 showed up. It does impact the atmosphere. Better to have a full stadium any day.

[bluto]

If you don't like the subject then why bother posting in the Thread?

pointing out pointlessness is just one of the services which YT renders free of charge.

[Midnight Blue]

I just have to chime in here. I've always thought that 40,000 minimum seats would not be outrageous.

We are in a period of history, where we may be witnessing the potential re-birth of Argonaut Football.


We're moving into an open air stadium (with partially covered stands), we have the potential for great new marketing for the Team, a return to a traditional and historic venue (or close to the old one), and a chance to take it to the next level.

Think big, think positive. If you build it, they will come. Smallish stadiums, send a negative, defeatist message out into the world. A return to the glory days of old, demands at the very least, the attitude that this is gonna work; this is gonna be great. This is going to be amazing.


Past failure doesn't guarantee future success. But neither does it exclude it.

Expecting 30-35,000 attendance per game is not unreasonable.

Sell the top 5,000 on both sides (of a 40K stadium) to student groups, visiting tourists and dignitaries, or touring Nuns if you have to, at a cheaper price. Make it super-affordable. Allow Football to be re-born in this town.

Hallelujah !


Fortune favours the Bold !



Ka' Pla !

[T-Bone]

If you build it, they will come.

The only person that talked about building a stadium for the Argos was Braley and if you ask me that was a bluff. I'm pretty sure the city told MLSE if they want the plans for BMO Field expansion to be approved they need to include the Argos which brings us to where we stand now. It's hard to justify the cost of a 30,000+ seat stadium with only 10 guaranteed dates a year.

[Neely2005]

All three above >25000 games were Ticats and was boosted by Ticat and not Argo fans.

True but does that mean that we should ignore those games?

I'm sure that last season's terrible home schedule significantly affected attendance too.

Yeah this true. I was at the West Semi final and we had 11000 mt seats even though 33000 showed up. It does impact the atmosphere. Better to have a full stadium any day.

I'm sure that weather plays a pretty big factor in attendance in an outdoor stadium during October and November.

[Invader]

The only person that talked about building a stadium for the Argos was Braley and if you ask me that was a bluff. I'm pretty sure the city told MLSE if they want the plans for BMO Field expansion to be approved they need to include the Argos which brings us to where we stand now. It's hard to justify the cost of a 30,000+ seat stadium with only 10 guaranteed dates a year.

Every other CFL franchise has a football stadium to play in, what's so different about Toronto? It's not like the costs are prohibitive, as BMO cost only $63 million to build. Even with the renovations BMO will still probably be the dumpiest stadium in the league, generating the lowest revenue streams for its CFL team.

I know Brunt said in his recent video that it makes no sense to build a 25,000-seat stadium for the Argos...but why not, it seems to make sense everywhere else? I think this is more of a reflection of the negative attitude much of the media has against the Argos and their 5th-place ranking in Toronto's sporting pecking order.

The main problem with the Argos is the small season-ticket base the team has to start from, by far the lowest in the CFL. But I wonder if other CFL teams had televised all their home games for 30 years with their stadium half empty, that that might have dwindled their season ticket base over time?

The Argos have a very strong walkup crowd, by far the biggest in the league, drawing more total fans than the Alouettes did in 2012. So the fans are there. I believe there will be a high demand for Argo tickets in an outdoor stadium with a natural grass field.

While it perhaps makes no sense for the Argos to build a stadium with Ticats visits in mind, but the reported 15,000 Oskee-wee-wees who were among the 36,000 at last years EDF, paid their ticket money directly into the Argos bank account. A very nice bonus for the owner who'd have to turn away all those fans at a renovated BMO.

[paulwoods13]

It seems to make sense everywhere else to build a 25,000-seat stadium for the CFL? Everywhere else?

For one thing, everywhere else does not have a similar-sized stadium in the same market to compete with for secondary use. For another, land costs are much higher in Toronto than elsewhere. For another, a $63M stadium would be a piece of crap that would not attract new fans; THF in Hamilton will cost more than twice that and I'm not at all convinced it will be anything other than bare bones. BMO is currently not great, and even with renos it won't be IGF2 (IGF cost more than $200M, I believe) but it will be a darn sight better than our current home on many levels.

And finally the big thing -- there is no one willing to fork over $150M or more to build a stadium that will be used 10 times a year. That's why this poll, and this discussion, is absurdly theoretical.

[ArgoRavi]

I just have to chime in here. I've always thought that 40,000 minimum seats would not be outrageous.

We are in a period of history, where we may be witnessing the potential re-birth of Argonaut Football.


We're moving into an open air stadium (with partially covered stands), we have the potential for great new marketing for the Team, a return to a traditional and historic venue (or close to the old one), and a chance to take it to the next level.

Think big, think positive. If you build it, they will come. Smallish stadiums, send a negative, defeatist message out into the world. A return to the glory days of old, demands at the very least, the attitude that this is gonna work; this is gonna be great. This is going to be amazing.


Past failure doesn't guarantee future success. But neither does it exclude it.

Expecting 30-35,000 attendance per game is not unreasonable.

Sell the top 5,000 on both sides (of a 40K stadium) to student groups, visiting tourists and dignitaries, or touring Nuns if you have to, at a cheaper price. Make it super-affordable. Allow Football to be re-born in this town.

Hallelujah !


Fortune favours the Bold !



Ka' Pla !

The only time this franchise has drawn as many as 40k per game was between 1976-80. That happened to be a very different time in Toronto too as the Argos were dominant in the the Toronto market in the summer/fall and the Leafs were dominant in the winter/spring. Those days are long gone. I don't think that having 25k-30k seats is being defeatist; it is being realistic.

[T-Bone]

Invader, paulwoods13 has pretty much answered your questions. BMO Field was built on the cheap out of necessity. There was a short time frame and a stadium was needed for the U-20 World Cup in 2007 after the York University Stadium plans fell apart. From my understanding Rogers Centre will not be available for other events only during the baseball season. So, if the Jays are not in the playoffs and the Argos have a playoff game I don't see why Rogers Centre would not be an option.