Argos at BMO Field

[AaronInToronto]

Rich, does that also mean that you want them to stick their nose, or hands, into your wallet? I can absolutely guarantee that season ticket rates will jump by 30% or more the first season those greedy arses get their hands on the Argos. all of what you mentioned can be accomplished without MLSE. It simply takes leadership and an astute marketing team. You can have a great marketing program with little money. I've done it, and watched some low-cost programs flourish, and glitz and glams ones fail miesearbly. MLSE always tries to buy success. That won't necessarily work with the Argos.

[paulwoods13]

Rich, does that also mean that you want them to stick their nose, or hands, into your wallet? I can absolutely guarantee that season ticket rates will jump by 30% or more the first season those greedy arses get their hands on the Argos. all of what you mentioned can be accomplished without MLSE. It simply takes leadership and an astute marketing team. You can have a great marketing program with little money. I've done it, and watched some low-cost programs flourish, and glitz and glams ones fail miesearbly. MLSE always tries to buy success. That won't necessarily work with the Argos.

I don't believe there is one chance in a million that MLSE will raise prices by 30% or more the first season they own the club. This is a team struggling to establish a firm foothold in a crowded market. MLSE knows how to do one thing well, and that's make money. Alienating the already-too-small fan base of the Argos with a massive price increase at the outset would not be part of any sensible business strategy -- and say what you want about MLSE's on-field success, no one has ever accused them of implementing dumb business strategies. It's certainly possible -- even likely -- that prices will go up as the value of the club increases and the reduced number of tickets available in the new facility comes into play, but 30%? The first year? I say not a chance.

As for how easy it is to market a team, the only things required being "leadership and an astute marketing team," I say if it were that easy, you'd think it might have been done sometime between the end of the Bill Hodgson regime in 1979 and now. I don't know what programs you've been involved with, Aaron, but I'd hazard a guess they did not involve a sports franchise team that is surrounded by massively larger sports franchises and does not control its "home" stadium or the dates it gets assigned to play "home" games, among other obstacles.

[T-Bone]

I don't believe there is one chance in a million that MLSE will raise prices by 30% or more the first season they own the club. This is a team struggling to establish a firm foothold in a crowded market. MLSE knows how to do one thing well, and that's make money. Alienating the already-too-small fan base of the Argos with a massive price increase at the outset would not be part of any sensible business strategy -- and say what you want about MLSE's on-field success, no one has ever accused them of implementing dumb business strategies. It's certainly possible -- even likely -- that prices will go up as the value of the club increases and the reduced number of tickets available in the new facility comes into play, but 30%? The first year? I say not a chance.

I agree with you 100% here. I highly doubt MLSE would increase prices very much the first year. I would guess they would keep them relatively the same to what the prices are from when they take over, if they take over. Prices for TFC have decreased for obvious reasons.

As for how easy it is to market a team, the only things required being "leadership and an astute marketing team," I say if it were that easy, you'd think it might have been done sometime between the end of the Bill Hodgson regime in 1979 and now. I don't know what programs you've been involved with, Aaron, but I'd hazard a guess they did not involve a sports franchise team that is surrounded by massively larger sports franchises and does not control its "home" stadium or the dates it gets assigned to play "home" games, among other obstacles.

I don't know what is up with the Argos marketing department. I can't recall seeing much marketing this year outside of events the teams does like sending cheerleaders to things and the team had a booth at the Sports Expo part of Fan Expo where they were selling tickets. How much would it cost them to put posters on the transit system a few weeks before the home opener or exhibition game with a season schedule on it and leave them up for the season?

[paulwoods13]

I don't know what is up with the Argos marketing department. I can't recall seeing much marketing this year outside of events the teams does like sending cheerleaders to things and the team had a booth at the Sports Expo part of Fan Expo where they were selling tickets. How much would it cost them to put posters on the transit system a few weeks before the home opener or exhibition game with a season schedule on it and leave them up for the season?

As I've written here before, the Argos placed tons of ads in the Toronto Sun and on TSN Radio all season, and they are now running "buy season's tickets" ads in both places. They also did at least one TV commercial that ran locally. It seems to me that targeting hard-core sports fans (many of whom read the Sun and listen to sports radio) makes more sense than throwing up ads on subways and the like. I'm no marketing expert but I think many who are would advocate targeting your spending where it will do the most good.

[T-Bone]

As I've written here before, the Argos placed tons of ads in the Toronto Sun and on TSN Radio all season, and they are now running "buy season's tickets" ads in both places. They also did at least one TV commercial that ran locally. It seems to me that targeting hard-core sports fans (many of whom read the Sun and listen to sports radio) makes more sense than throwing up ads on subways and the like. I'm no marketing expert but I think many who are would advocate targeting your spending where it will do the most good.

Ok. I guess the question is "How much good are those ads doing?" then. I don't think the TSN ads come out of the Argos advertising budget either. I would think that is TSN promoting the product to promote themselves as well as the TV ad and the few Argo/TSN posters I saw.

[paulwoods13]

Ok. I guess the question is "How much good are those ads doing?" then. I don't think the TSN ads come out of the Argos advertising budget either. I would think that is TSN promoting the product to promote themselves as well as the TV ad and the few Argo/TSN posters I saw.

The radio ads are very explicit -- "we want you to buy season's tickets." They don't promote TSN TV or radio, they promote ticket sales. No question there is cross-brand value in them, but I doubt very much that TSN Radio donates the airtime for these ads, and I can pretty well guarantee that the Sun doesn't give its ad space away. If the Argos get, say, a cut rate from TSN Radio because it owns radio rights to the team, that just means the team's bottom line will be slightly better than it would have been at full rate (but would still, I think we'd all agree, show a net loss on operations).

[Tau Ceti]

The radio ads are very explicit -- "we want you to buy season's tickets." They don't promote TSN TV or radio, they promote ticket sales. No question there is cross-brand value in them, but I doubt very much that TSN Radio donates the airtime for these ads, and I can pretty well guarantee that the Sun doesn't give its ad space away. If the Argos get, say, a cut rate from TSN Radio because it owns radio rights to the team, that just means the team's bottom line will be slightly better than it would have been at full rate (but would still, I think we'd all agree, show a net loss on operations).

I find what little marketing they do to be off-putting because it's just "tickets, tickets, tickets, tickets." It's like they have no other way to promote themselves except by repeatedly insisting you buy tickets. It makes them seem desperate.

[T-Bone]

TFC prices have decreased in the past couple of years but in the few years before that they increased.

Right, the price increases and decreases for TFC have been connected to demand and productivity on the field. I think that makes sense. What is your point?

[Neely2005]

Right, the price increases and decreases for TFC have been connected to demand and productivity on the field. I think that makes sense. What is your point?

My point is that they were quick to raise prices and slow to lower them. In fact one of the years that they lowered prices they originally announced a price increase but had to change course due to fan outrage.

[T-Bone]

My point is that they were quick to raise prices and slow to lower them. In fact one of the years that they lowered prices they originally announced a price increase but had to change course due to fan outrage.

I don't remember that and I've had TFC season tickets since day one. What season was that? If I remember correctly prices went up until season 4. Season 5 tickets were frozen at season 4 prices and last season they went down to season 1 prices. This season the price will be the same as last which is season 1 prices.

[shayman]

How much would it cost them to put posters on the transit system a few weeks before the home opener or exhibition game with a season schedule on it and leave them up for the season?

Best I could find - without actually phoning and asking - were TTC ad rates from 2010 -
http://www.blogto.com/city/2010/10/e...se_on_the_ttc/

Interesting numbers.

Subway station posters in "AA" stations (the busiest) - $2,000 per month. per poster.
Wrapping a single streetcar for a month is $17,000.


it could be different now; these rates are from 2010 when CBS handled the advertising. Today it's handled by Pattison Outdoor. http://www.pattisonoutdoor.com/en/tt...media-products

[Argo57]

I don't believe there is one chance in a million that MLSE will raise prices by 30% or more the first season they own the club. This is a team struggling to establish a firm foothold in a crowded market. MLSE knows how to do one thing well, and that's make money. Alienating the already-too-small fan base of the Argos with a massive price increase at the outset would not be part of any sensible business strategy -- and say what you want about MLSE's on-field success, no one has ever accused them of implementing dumb business strategies. It's certainly possible -- even likely -- that prices will go up as the value of the club increases and the reduced number of tickets available in the new facility comes into play, but 30%? The first year? I say not a chance.

As for how easy it is to market a team, the only things required being "leadership and an astute marketing team," I say if it were that easy, you'd think it might have been done sometime between the end of the Bill Hodgson regime in 1979 and now. I don't know what programs you've been involved with, Aaron, but I'd hazard a guess they did not involve a sports franchise team that is surrounded by massively larger sports franchises and does not control its "home" stadium or the dates it gets assigned to play "home" games, among other obstacles.

Purchase the team, market and merchandise the hell out of the team, create demand and increase brand recognition then they can look at incremental price increases, if that's the trade off for a once again thriving and relevant Argonaut franchise then so be it.

[Rich]

Purchase the team, market and merchandise the hell out of the team, create demand and increase brand recognition then they can look at incremental price increases, if that's the trade off for a once again thriving and relevant Argonaut franchise then so be it.

My thoughts exactly. I live paycheque to paycheque, but I'd be happy to pay a little more if it meant my beloved Argonauts were thriving and relevant.

It's like property taxes. Any increase hurts my wallet, but I'm happy to pay it if it means helping improve the infrastructure of the city I love.

There's no question we'd all like to see creative, enticing ads for the Argos all over town, but the team is losing boatloads of money and has to spend what it has as wisely as it can. Whether it would be smarter to put schedules in the subway than to buy ads on TSN Radio and the Sun is something a marketing expert might comment on, but the fact is the team is spending money -- and a fair bit of it, I'd say, judging by the volume of radio and print ads over the past two years -- and should not be accused of doing nothing to market itself.

Be that as it may, the point is that there's every reason to expect the Argonauts would be promoted much better under the professional management of MLSE.

[OV Argo]

Rich, does that also mean that you want them to stick their nose, or hands, into your wallet? I can absolutely guarantee that season ticket rates will jump by 30% or more the first season those greedy arses get their hands on the Argos. all of what you mentioned can be accomplished without MLSE. It simply takes leadership and an astute marketing team. You can have a great marketing program with little money. I've done it, and watched some low-cost programs flourish, and glitz and glams ones fail miesearbly. MLSE always tries to buy success. That won't necessarily work with the Argos.

NO to MLSE; and what you said about leadership and marketing from another possible ownership group - but none of those out there so it goes to MLSE by default? - and the fate of the Argos in those clowns' hands?

Does Braley really expect to be able to extort, er, get huge bucks for the Argos? - did he make some decent coin on the GC last year? And now he expects (i don't know, just surmising) to be able to sell the Argos for million$ ?

Look at the new ownership group in Ottawa - local guys with yes lots of money, but also some running a sports team smarts on board (Hunt), and NOT a huge corporate entity that's JUST about bottom line. No rich guys in TO who are big football or Canadian sport fans who could band together (and possibly enlist a part community ownership model) to buy the Argos and run them wisely? MLSE to the resucue i guess.