Rich Stubler Fired in BC

[Deerkeeper]

Wonder if we could see him back in Toronto in some capacity?

Stubler Canned

[ArgoGabe22]

I bet he'll end up in WPG with O'Shea.

[bluto]

I bet he'll end up in WPG with O'Shea.

that. book it.

[Argo57]

I bet he'll end up in WPG with O'Shea.

100% Agree with that!!!

[ArgoRavi]

Many B.C. fans will be rejoicing over this move as well as they were very unhappy with Stubler after losing in the West semi-final when Darian Durant ran all over their defence in the fourth quarter. Even one of the veterans was questioning Stubler's schemes after that game. I too expect that Stubler will resurface in Winnipeg as I don't think that he is any kind of a fit in Toronto at this time.

[gilthethrill]

I am starting to feel relieved that Winnipeg is back in the Western Division.

[Argocister]

I wonder if Benevides will take over the DC ..... They now have to find both OC and DC..... As if there aren't already enough job opportunities in the CFL coaching ranks. Major carousel this year ... Players and coaches.

Is Stublers defence similar to Rick Campbell's philosophy?

[Argo]

Contrary to the small slew of previous posters, I doubt that Stubler will be hired by O'Shea.

Of course I could be wrong about this: on the one hand a very experienced CFL DC has just been fired and is presumably available unless retiring; on the other hand, I noted O'Shea's recent, virtually instantaneous, disavowal when asked if he was necessarily hunting for experienced staffers.

Further, at some point the recycling process must conclude, and old worn-down parts replaced by new components.

I guess it really boils down to the O'Shea comfort level (*) with relying upon the Stubler Defence (TM) in 2014. Horses for courses, and all that, but some say that this defence is certainly passé.

* cf. another of O'Shea's comments during his presser, specifying philosophy and approach.

[ArgoRavi]

Here is a fine Canadian Press article where Burke talks about his defensive philosophy in comparison to Chris Jones': http://www.thestar.com/sports/argos/...ordinator.html

[Gill The Thrill]

Contrary to the small slew of previous posters, I doubt that Stubler will be hired by O'Shea.

Of course I could be wrong about this: on the one hand a very experienced CFL DC has just been fired and is presumably available unless retiring; on the other hand, I noted O'Shea's recent, virtually instantaneous, disavowal when asked if he was necessarily hunting for experienced staffers.

Further, at some point the recycling process must conclude, and old worn-down parts replaced by new components.

I guess it really boils down to the O'Shea comfort level (*) with relying upon the Stubler Defence (TM) in 2014. Horses for courses, and all that, but some say that this defence is certainly passé.

* cf. another of O'Shea's comments during his presser, specifying philosophy and approach.

Considering that O'Shea played under Stubler and won a Grey Cup with the Argos in '04 while Stubler was the DC, I think it would be an excellent hire for O'Shea. It would show everybody around the league that O'Shea is confident enough to hire a guy with more coaching experience who knows the league inside out. He's a rookie head coach, and Kyle Walters, the Bombers GM is a rookie GM. They could use a veteran coach like Stubler as a springboard for handling certain experiences and situations that can arise when you are the guy in charge. From what I recall, there was never a problem with Stubler and O'Shea so it's not as if they never got along as O'Shea was still a staple on that Argo D that Stubler controlled in '04.

[Argo]

Considering that O'Shea played under Stubler and won a Grey Cup with the Argos in '04 while Stubler was the DC, I think it would be an excellent hire for O'Shea. It would show everybody around the league that O'Shea is confident enough to hire a guy with more coaching experience who knows the league inside out. He's a rookie head coach, and Kyle Walters, the Bombers GM is a rookie GM. They could use a veteran coach like Stubler as a springboard for handling certain experiences and situations that can arise when you are the guy in charge. From what I recall, there was never a problem with Stubler and O'Shea so it's not as if they never got along as O'Shea was still a staple on that Argo D that Stubler controlled in '04.

Yes, working together (as it were) previously does make Stubler easier to hire, even at this point, and he still may be perceived as a "safe hire". But who are the alternatives? That's the question.

[argotom]

Many B.C. fans will be rejoicing over this move as well as they were very unhappy with Stubler after losing in the West semi-final when Darian Durant ran all over their defence in the fourth quarter. Even one of the veterans was questioning Stubler's schemes after that game. I too expect that Stubler will resurface in Winnipeg as I don't think that he is any kind of a fit in Toronto at this time.

If any fans should have been totally upset wit the way the defence folded in the playoffs, it's us.
That's way I still cannot understand that move by the Esks in hiring Jones.
Like some of us have said, good riddance to him and that horrible scheme all year.

[argolio]

If any fans should have been totally upset wit the way the defence folded in the playoffs, it's us.
That's way I still cannot understand that move by the Esks in hiring Jones.
Like some of us have said, good riddance to him and that horrible scheme all year.

Guy's got a good track record, and I didn't hear anyone complaining much about the D at the end of 2012. Who knows whether he'll be a successful head coach, but a lot of the criticism he took for 2013 was fans being just a bit too bi-polar.

[Argo57]

Guy's got a good track record, and I didn't hear anyone complaining much about the D at the end of 2012. Who knows whether he'll be a successful head coach, but a lot of the criticism he took for 2013 was fans being just a bit too bi-polar.

True
Jones did a great job in 2012 and was well recognized and praised for his efforts, 2013 totally different story, major defensive turnover, poor recruiting (of which Jones was directly responsible) and at times bizarre defensive schemes (also his responsibility) plagued the team all season for which he received heavy criticism all based on fact!!
That's the business of pro sports, hero one season, zero the next, opinions simply based on tangible results.

[argotom]

True
Jones did a great job in 2012 and was well recognized and praised for his efforts, 2013 totally different story, major defensive turnover, poor recruiting (of which Jones was directly responsible) and at times bizarre defensive schemes (also his responsibility) plagued the team all season for which he received heavy criticism all based on fact!!
That's the business of pro sports, hero one season, zero the next, opinions simply based on tangible results.

I am one that didn't like his scheme to begin with, including in 2012. Really there were holes and I recall one of the reasons that Ricky Foley left was the wacky drop back into coverage nonsense. It was the offense that won us the Grey Cup.

[Argo57]

I am one that didn't like his scheme to begin with, including in 2012. Really there were holes and I recall one of the reasons that Ricky Foley left was the wacky drop back into coverage nonsense. It was the offense that won us the Grey Cup.

To be fair, the defence shut down Cornish, Glenn and the Calgary O in the Grey Cup so that truly was a team effort.

[argotom]

From early indications and history, thankfully Tim Burke will employ a traditional defensive front.

[Argo57]

From early indications and history, thankfully Tim Burke will employ a traditional defensive front.

This will be a welcomed change that's for sure, maybe we will actually see some QB sacks!!

[AngeloV]

This will be a welcomed change that's for sure, maybe we will actually see some QB sacks!!

We had 4 to Hamilton's none in the EF. How did that work out for us?

Those type of stats mean absolutely nothing. I believe the Argos were at the top of the league in interceptions this year...another stat that gets overblown. As I have said, the defence didn't have a great year in 2013, but retirements of Carroll and Younger as well as Horne thinking he was worth way more money than he was getting (bringing with him a bad attitude when he finally showed up) had a lot to do with the issues the team had on defence. I think it resulted in a lot less blitzing and more zone coverage this season which clearly is not the type of D that Jones likes to play. They may have found some good players in the secondary, but the inexperienced group (for the most part) really struggled at times this year. I believe Jones would have turned them around if he stayed on for 2014.

[gilthethrill]

We had 4 to Hamilton's none in the EF. How did that work out for us?

Those type of stats mean absolutely nothing. I believe the Argos were at the top of the league in interceptions this year...another stat that gets overblown. As I have said, the defence didn't have a great year in 2013, but retirements of Carroll and Younger as well as Horne thinking he was worth way more money than he was getting (bringing with him a bad attitude when he finally showed up) had a lot to do with the issues the team had on defence. I think it resulted in a lot less blitzing and more zone coverage this season which clearly is not the type of D that Jones likes to play. They may have found some good players in the secondary, but the inexperienced group (for the most part) really struggled at times this year. I believe Jones would have turned them around if he stayed on for 2014.

AV I agree with everything you said with the exception of your statement regarding interceptions being an overblown stat. Teams that win the turnover battle win most of the time. I keep reading about how the Argos and Jones erred by "Blowing up the defence" from 2012. It was out of the teams control about Armstead, Kuale and Foley wanting to play for a team that employed a scheme that suited him better in addition to the situations of the players you listed. I really do feel Jones earned a HC opportunity after his years of service in the league.