No Shock: Bills in Toronto likely done?

[paulwoods13]

So this thread becomes another opportunity for media bashing, yet the only source for the series being over is . . . the media.

[zontar]

So this thread becomes another opportunity for media bashing,

Those among the media that warrant "bashing" on this particular topic, yes.

[argotom]

Need a link for that.

On the McCown Fan 590 show when Brunt was and still continues as a co host.
Even tough I no longer listen and or watch , excuses Brunt clamed after the fiasco how the reason for the failure is this was not Toronto's team after all therefore the indifference.
However, he maintains the house was not papered to even the Rogers minimum admitted amounts!

[paulwoods13]

Those among the media that warrant "bashing" on this particular topic, yes.

So is John Kryk one of those? Tau Ceti seems to think he is. Do you?

[Tau Ceti]

So is John Kryk one of those? Tau Ceti seems to think he is. Do you?

Paul, I feel like you're scolding me a little bit here and feel I should clarify my last post. I'm not "bashing the media". I actually appreciate how robust the Sun's coverage is even though I have snobby friends who won't read it. (I read your guest posts prior to the Eastern Final and enjoyed them.) I was simply pointing to one case of flip-flopping over the Bills in Toronto. I don't know Kryk from Adam. But I found it awfully weird that the man went from buying the Rogers/Bills line to, literally, calling for an end to the series. In the the article prior to the game he even fell for the Rogers trick of reducing what constitutes a sellout. It struck me as a little bizarre.

[zontar]

So is John Kryk one of those? Tau Ceti seems to think he is. Do you?

If he was cheeleading at the start of the deal and remained silent about the excuses apologists are peddling now, then, yes.

[paulwoods13]

If he was cheeleading at the start of the deal and remained silent about the excuses apologists are peddling now, then, yes.

OK, if he did that and therefore deserves to be mocked, why are you and others prepared to so readily accept his latest unattributed report that the series is ending?

[Neely2005]

OK, if he did that and therefore deserves to be mocked, why are you and others prepared to so readily accept his latest unattributed report that the series is ending?

I think that there are a few reasons to believe that the series is probably ending. First we know that the Rogers Centre will be installing grass and locking into baseball configuration. Secondly we have the radio interview with the Bills president a few weeks ago where he hinted that they would be looking at all options in regards to getting out of the deal. Third we know that Rogers has lost the NFL rights and invested a lot of money into the NHL. Four we know that a meeting between the two parties is going to take place.

[Will]

I don't think Kryk has been with the Sun all that long. Perhaps a year or two, but certainly after the start of the series.

[Neely2005]

rogers 5 billion dollar Investment In the NHL, they no longer have the NFL rights, and thus aren't interested In the series any longer, they have a new 12 year focus, which to my delight they ridiculously over paid , they wont be bringing in huge profits on this one.

Why would you want one of Canada's biggest and best Employers to lose money?

Anyway Rogers already made back about a quarter of their money by licensing out the French Language rights:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-...service=mobile

[Invader]

I'm not so sure that Rogers has "lost the NFL rights". TSN said they were going to offer a "second option" for the early and late Sunday games, not taking over the Sportsnet/CityTV games. Rogers soon responded with their own "second option" of Sunday Night Hockey versus TSN's Sunday Night Football.

We should remember the last time the Argos were close to finalizing their stadium deal (at York), Rogers offered a "sweetheart deal" at RC which Pelley/C&S jumped at...then soon after the deal was signed Rogers turned into Mr. Nasty towards the Argos. I sense the same thing happening this time, with Rogers/MLSE playing nice to attract the Argos into the fold and abandoning their stadium plans, with Rogers/MLSE seizing control of the Argos...for the profits or just their sense of civic duty? I believe there is something more going on here and it won't necessarily be good for Canadian football.

[AngeloV]

I sense the same thing happening this time, with Rogers/MLSE playing nice to attract the Argos into the fold and abandoning their stadium plans, with Rogers/MLSE seizing control of the Argos...for the profits or just their sense of civic duty? I believe there is something more going on here and it won't necessarily be good for Canadian football.

Assuming of course the Argos were serious about building their own stadium. I never bought into that theory. I just don't see Braley dipping into his own pockets to the tune of 100+ million dollars. He has saved 3 franchises, but other than paying the bills, he never made an initial investment (or at the most a very modest initial investment) on any of them.

[paulwoods13]

Kryk has been with the paper for many years but has had his current assignment as NFL beat reporter for only the past couple. He's an excellent reporter.

His report before this year's game quoted Bills in Toronto executive director Greg Albrecht as saying: “Last year we started a no-comps policy, and we’re continuing that trend this year. It doesn’t help anybody when you start giving away tickets to any sort of event. Some people will say that there’s a real fine line between selling tickets and giving away tickets to fill a building and create atmosphere. But we think you create atmosphere by creating value in the ticket, so that’s what we’re continuing to do.” Was Albrecht telling the truth at that time? Maybe yes, maybe no, but if he wasn't, how could Kryk or any reporter know that without any hard evidence to the contrary?

As far as I know, there was no hard evidence that the crowd was going to be papered until a day or two before the game when credible reports with supporting documents (such as copies of Rogers bills referring to free tickets) surfaced on social media and fan forums. Kryk's subsequent column calling for the series to be ended reported that "more giveaways went out late last week, to 'loyal' Rogers Communications customers." So he went to the source, asked a direct question and then reported the answer. And then when new, contradictory information surfaced later, he reported that as well.

If his initial reporting made him guilty of "buying the Rogers line," then every reporter on every beat who reports what he/she is told by those in a position to know the truth is guilty of buying the party line. Many fans criticize reporters who report things the fans don't agree with. If all you want is to confirm your own beliefs, then stop paying attention to journalists.

[zontar]

OK, if he did that and therefore deserves to be mocked, why are you and others prepared to so readily accept his latest unattributed report that the series is ending?

I believe I stated earlier if the deal was ending. Even if it isnt the supposed self-evident facts of why its , thus far, a flop should have been self evident 6 years ago and why not not a peep from media cheerleaders ?

Media is not above scrutiny because they're professionals and the readers are not. If they're guilty of bias or revision or just flat out wrong they ought to be identified as such.

[Invader]

Assuming of course the Argos were serious about building their own stadium. I never bought into that theory. I just don't see Braley dipping into his own pockets to the tune of 100+ million dollars. He has saved 3 franchises, but other than paying the bills, he never made an initial investment (or at the most a very modest initial investment) on any of them.

Mr. Braley said all 3 levels of government will help fund the new Argos stadium...just like MLSE said they've lobbied 3 levels of gov't to pay for the BMO expansion (despite saying in October that not one dollar of taxpayers money will be used for BMO's renovation). While it might not have cost Braley much to purchase the Ticats, Lions and Argos, it was reported he lost $30 million in the first 8 years of Lions ownership. He's probably made that money back by hosting multiple Grey Cups and with the Lions being profitable over the past 6 or 7 seasons.

There is little question that Braley is dedicated to the CFL and will not abandon the Argos without a secure future and a committed owner. The Argos need their own stadium, with revenue from naming rights, concessions, parking, sponsorships, merchandise retailing and 1st choice in game dates. With an Argo stadium in place, the team will be secure. Then it doesn't matter what MLSE, Rogers or NFL do, the team can survive on its own for another 140 years or more.

Mr. Braley is also a man of his word and is not just blowing smoke about his stadium plans. I highly doubt he'll turn the team over to a bunch of sharks whose stated goal is to bring the NFL to Toronto...with the Argos standing in their way (with half of Toronto's football fans supporting the Argos and the NFL's stated assurance of not wanting to harm the league).

[mac_davy]

Why would you want one of Canada's biggest and best Employers to lose money?

Anyway Rogers already made back about a quarter of their money by licensing out the French Language rights:

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/report-...service=mobile

I realize rogers has a lot of employees, and obviously there are many families that do well because of the steady employment provided by rogers. Having said that, I don't like there business practices, they are highly aggressive and monopolistic.
It was no secret that with men like Phill Lind and company, the agenda was to see the CFL fail, so regardless of the fact that the CFL directly or indirectly employees ten of thousands of people across Canada, entertains millions, and its championship game is a cultural event, these men would gladly have seen a Canadian institution wiped from the landscape to usher in their narcissistic NFL dreams. This is why I dislike rogers, and will never ever own their products.

Phil Lind has an order of Canada too, what a effin joke.

[Tau Ceti]

As far as I know, there was no hard evidence that the crowd was going to be papered until a day or two before the game.

There was plain as day evidence that Rogers was shifting the goal posts on capacity and what % of a sellout the crowd would constitute.

Kryk reported: "A crowd of 40,770 last December watched the streaking Seattle Seahawks obliterate Chan Gailey’s last bad Bills team, 50-17. That attendance figure is exactly 90% of the Rogers Centre’s 45,300 capacity for NFL football, and 93% of non-suite “in the bowl” capacity."

The Rogers Centre capacity for NFL football is most definitely not 45,000. Rogers had consistently announced +50,000 crowds at the beginning of this series. There's one preseason game from 1995 with a reported crowd of almost 55,799: http://www.profootballarchives.com/1995nflbuf.html. I don't know of any structural change to the dome that would account for a 10,000 seat decline in football capacity. Surely Kryk knew about this. He either didn't ask about the discrepancy or didn't report the results. Combine this with his equally uncritical repetition that the game would be freebies free and I do think "buying the Rogers line" is a fair assessment.

That said, I don't think there's anything particularly nefarious about it. Kryk obviously enjoys the NFL and I just think that led him to be overly credulous.

[paulwoods13]

The capacity change is a valid subject to raise. I, too, would like to know which 10,000 seats have been removed from consideration, and I'd like to see a reporter ask for an explanation of that. But that's a completely different issue than whether or not the house would be papered, which was the original complaint about Kryk's reporting in this thread.

"Combine this with his equally uncritical repetition that the game would be freebies free" -- so what would you have had him do? Call Albrecht a liar? Manufacture evidence of papering before he had it?

Columnists who are paid to give their opinions come under fire around here all the time for doing that rather than reporting. Are we now criticizing a guy for reporting instead of expressing opinion?

[paulwoods13]

Media is not above scrutiny because they're professionals and the readers are not. If they're guilty of bias or revision or just flat out wrong they ought to be identified as such.

I completely agree that media are subject to scrutiny. I evaluate the quality of the journalism in every piece of journalism I consume. But the "scrutiny scale" used in this and other CFL forums is awfully slippery and seems to be heavily weighted towards whether or not the poster agrees or disagrees with the journalist rather than whether appropriate journalistic standards were upheld.

[argotom]

I completely agree that media are subject to scrutiny. I evaluate the quality of the journalism in every piece of journalism I consume. But the "scrutiny scale" used in this and other CFL forums is awfully slippery and seems to be heavily weighted towards whether or not the poster agrees or disagrees with the journalist rather than whether appropriate journalistic standards were upheld.

How can you say that, when the Rogers media empire includes print, radio and TV stations.
All of which have an obvious bias and must toe the party line or else.
How can that bee integrity in journalism?