No Shock: Bills in Toronto likely done?

[argotom]

It all went south for me when Rogers negative option billing in 1995 caused such an uproar with the country like never seen before.
Not only tarnishing their image for life, in my mind this crooked company has not done anything to improve since then.

[ArgoZ]

I think I am going to boycott anything and everything that doesn't have an Argonaut logo. My toughest challenges may be finding enough suitable underwear and of course food and drink options. I do have a couple bottles of Jones Soda with Kerry Joseph on the label, so I should survive for a few days.

[ArgoGabe22]

I think I am going to boycott anything and everything that doesn't have an Argonaut logo. My toughest challenges may be finding enough suitable underwear and of course food and drink options. I do have a couple bottles of Jones Soda with Kerry Joseph on the label, so I should survive for a few days.

You could always live off of Argo/CFL sponsors. I'm not sure if they still are but there's Stagg Chili.

[argotom]

I think I am going to boycott anything and everything that doesn't have an Argonaut logo. My toughest challenges may be finding enough suitable underwear and of course food and drink options. I do have a couple bottles of Jones Soda with Kerry Joseph on the label, so I should survive for a few days.

A little tongue and cheek?
How about the most obvious if it applies to you, cell phone, cable, radio and TV watching?

[AngeloV]

I think I am going to boycott anything and everything that doesn't have an Argonaut logo. My toughest challenges may be finding enough suitable underwear and of course food and drink options. I do have a couple bottles of Jones Soda with Kerry Joseph on the label, so I should survive for a few days.

LMFAO!!! I wonder who you could be mocking here?? Things that make you go HMMMMM.

[Ron]

A little tongue and cheek?
How about the most obvious if it applies to you, cell phone, cable, radio and TV watching?

You know that if MLSE buys the Argos ... you are required to drop your Argo tickets since they'll be a Rogers product.

[BATKINSON001]

You could always live off of Argo/CFL sponsors. I'm not sure if they still are but there's Stagg Chili.

walmart carrys Pinty's products... they are still a sponsor and were a sponsor during the 100th grey cup...

[argotom]

You know that if MLSE buys the Argos ... you are required to drop your Argo tickets since they'll be a Rogers product.

No requirement per say.
But still a decision to be made after being a multi year season ticket holder and life long fan.

[paulwoods13]

I don't see how hatred of a corporation should outweigh a lifetime of supporting a team. It's not as if the Argos are being bought by RJ Reynolds or some other company that makes products that kill people.

[argotom]

I don't see how hatred of a corporation should outweigh a lifetime of supporting a team. It's not as if the Argos are being bought by RJ Reynolds or some other company that makes products that kill people.

That is the way I am leaning.

[Fumblitis]

If any Argo fan bails on 'em because MLSE buys them is playing right into the NFL wannabes plans!

[LLB997]

If Larry T buys them, then you have dodged the Rogers ownership bullet somewhat. I use Primus, CFL sponsor

[Neely2005]

If Larry T buys them, then you have dodged the Rogers ownership bullet somewhat. I use Primus, CFL sponsor

Primus uses the Rogers network for most of their services. Because Canada is so big with such a small population only a few companies have invested the money it takes to build your own network. Even a small local network costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

And the Argonauts still do play at the Rogers Centre...

[Mulder]

Primus uses the Rogers network for most of their services. Because Canada is so big with such a small population only a few companies have invested the money it takes to build your own network. Even a small local network costs hundreds of millions of dollars.

And the Argonauts still do play at the Rogers Centre...

Highly incorrect assumption. Primus does lease Bell and Rogers cable/telephone lines because Bell and Rogers are mandated to share. The Government of Canada gave exclusive rights to Bell & later Rogers to run these lines in City/province, etc owned Right of ways & Canada highly subsidized those private company's to construct those lines too. In return they had to allow competition and sharing.

As for Rogers, they were given an area of Toronto to control exclusive rights as well (in the 1960's)

It didn't make sense in 1880 to construct multiple telephone lines for different companies, as it didn't make sense in the 1960's for cable and doesn't make sense today.

As I work in construction/design, I can imagine the huge headache I would have if I had to deal with more than the current 2-3 buried telecommunications company's along with all the other buried services.

Leasing the line is pennies on the dollar, though the lines they still run their own circuit. Without getting too technical, think of your car going though a tunnel, somebody/city/municipality owns the tunnel, but you own and run the object going though the tunnel. The major difference is the ends of the tunnel are different, as you would be routed to a different provider.

To say that you support Rogers because you get your internet though Primus isn't a correct assumption, when the only part that Primus uses is the tunnel or lines, which are the cheapest overall to provide.

[Neely2005]

Highly incorrect assumption. Primus does lease Bell and Rogers cable/telephone lines because Bell and Rogers are mandated to share. The Government of Canada gave exclusive rights to Bell & later Rogers to run these lines in City/province, etc owned Right of ways & Canada highly subsidized those private company's to construct those lines too. In return they had to allow competition and sharing.

As for Rogers, they were given an area of Toronto to control exclusive rights as well (in the 1960's)

It didn't make sense in 1880 to construct multiple telephone lines for different companies, as it didn't make sense in the 1960's for cable and doesn't make sense today.

As I work in construction/design, I can imagine the huge headache I would have if I had to deal with more than the current 2-3 buried telecommunications company's along with all the other buried services.

Leasing the line is pennies on the dollar, though the lines they still run their own circuit. Without getting too technical, think of your car going though a tunnel, somebody/city/municipality owns the tunnel, but you own and run the object going though the tunnel. The major difference is the ends of the tunnel are different, as you would be routed to a different provider.

To say that you support Rogers because you get your internet though Primus isn't a correct assumption, when the only part that Primus uses is the tunnel or lines, which are the cheapest overall to provide.

You're partially correct. That is how it is done in regards to leased copper loops / twisted pair service for DSL and legacy home telephone service. However as technology moves away from those legacy services towards Fibre that is no longer the case. Primus doesn't have it's own Fibre network or Cellular Network they're a customer of Rogers Business Solutions. In fact even most of their legacy DSL service is straight resale. As to their legacy home phone service they send their signal through leased loops from Bell so again they don't have their own network.

Also it doesn't cost "pennies" to lease the copper loops. A few years ago the CRTC deregulated the tarrif allowing Bell to significantly increase what they charge to lease a loop. It's around $30 a month per A1 or A2 Loop. A5 Loops cost more. The prices are significantly higher now that they've been deregulated.

[T-Bone]

Who cares? Either support the Argos or don't, it's up to each individual to decide. I'm not saying people shouldn't be critical of ownership but the way I see it, as fans we don't have control over who owns the team. I'm not going to base my support for a team solely on the ownership of said team.

[paulwoods13]

I'm not saying people shouldn't be critical of ownership but the way I see it, as fans we don't have control over who owns the team. I'm not going to base my support for a team solely on the ownership of said team.

Good way of putting it. I will admit that I very briefly "boycotted" the team in 2000 when my anger over Huard reached a boiling point, but if we can continue to support the team through all the different ownership groups we've had (some of which didn't pay their bills around town), surely we can overcome any enmity towards Rogers (or Bell, or Tanenbaum, for that matter).

[ArgoRavi]

In fairness to ArgoTom, if he doesn't want to put any more money into Rogers' hands than absolutely necessary, then all the power to him.

[Mulder]

You're partially correct. That is how it is done in regards to leased copper loops / twisted pair service for DSL and legacy home telephone service. However as technology moves away from those legacy services towards Fibre that is no longer the case. Primus doesn't have it's own Fibre network or Cellular Network they're a customer of Rogers Business Solutions. In fact even most of their legacy DSL service is straight resale. As to their legacy home phone service they send their signal through leased loops from Bell so again they don't have their own network.

Also it doesn't cost "pennies" to lease the copper loops. A few years ago the CRTC deregulated the tarrif allowing Bell to significantly increase what they charge to lease a loop. Even before then it was $30+ a month per A1 or A2 Loop. A5 Loops cost more. Now the prices are significantly higher.

It's not, nor has ever been that much, and all the "line leasing" are passed on to the consumer anyways. 90% of Bell Canada's lines fall into Band rate A or B. Which carries a monthly fee of $7-$9 dollars. My comment on pennies on the dollar was as compared to how much your internet bill is actually devoted to playing this off.

Primus and Teksavvy do own some of their own networks, and in most cases investing in fibre to their own hubs. What you are leasing in major cities is "the last mile". It doesn't make sense to have cables from all players going down a street in telecommunications. It would become an utter mess and me massively expensive.

[Neely2005]

Good way of putting it. I will admit that I very briefly "boycotted" the team in 2000 when my anger over Huard reached a boiling point, but if we can continue to support the team through all the different ownership groups we've had (some of which didn't pay their bills around town), surely we can overcome any enmity towards Rogers (or Bell, or Tanenbaum, for that matter).

At least you were boycotting them for football reasons. :-)

It's not, nor has ever been that much, and all the "line leasing" are passed on to the consumer anyways. 90% of Bell Canada's lines fall into Band rate A or B. Which carries a monthly fee of $7-$9 dollars. My comment on pennies on the dollar was as compared to how much your internet bill is actually devoted to playing this off.

Primus and Teksavvy do own some of their own networks, and in most cases investing in fibre to their own hubs. What you are leasing in major cities is "the last mile". It doesn't make sense to have cables from all players going down a street in telecommunications. It would become an utter mess and me massively expensive.

Your figures are incorrect. The amount of the network that they own is minuscule and has very little Fibre. I've worked in the telecommunications industry for 20+ years. Feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this outside of the Thread.