Argo Sale

[jerrym]

That said, I don't see the gouging happening with the Argos barring a major upswing in demand. MLSE is not going to take a comparatively fragile ticket base that barely numbers in the five digits and try to squeeze it dry. Getting games up to a 25k sellout regularly (rather than just when Hamilton's in town) will be an initial goal. If it is met, prices might rise modestly. As others have noted, that would be a sign of health not alarm.

I've been tied up for the last little while in my annual torture test from hell - doing mine and all my relatives income taxes. Coming here, I feel like I have been liberated. With regard to the issue on hand, I think Tau Ceti that you have hit the nail on the head.

[1argoholic]

MLSE should make solid money on the ad end of things with the Argos. They still rank right up there when it comes to bringing in the all mighty ad dollars.

I hate massive corporations owning everything. This will hurt giving my hard earned money to MLSE. I try to stay away from big box stores, huge swill beer company products etc.

Hopefully we'll be able to find Argo merch everywhere one day.

[dmont]

I think MLSE ultimately will buy the Argos, but not until AFTER securing enough public money for the stadium project. After all, this place being a home for the "poor, neglected, homeless" Argonauts is really the only bargaining chip that MLSE has to play when it comes to getting any support to expand this stadium. It's like they're doing the Argos a favor, giving them a place to play. If they OWNED the Argos, they would be doing THEMSELVES a favor instead.

You heard it here first: Announcement that MLSE has purchased the Argonauts comes a month or two AFTER MLSE has secured enough public money to commence its stadium expansion.

[Ron]

I think MLSE ultimately will buy the Argos, but not until AFTER securing enough public money for the stadium project. After all, this place being a home for the "poor, neglected, homeless" Argonauts is really the only bargaining chip that MLSE has to play when it comes to getting any support to expand this stadium. It's like they're doing the Argos a favor, giving them a place to play. If they OWNED the Argos, they would be doing THEMSELVES a favor instead.

You heard it here first: Announcement that MLSE has purchased the Argonauts comes a month or two AFTER MLSE has secured enough public money to commence its stadium expansion.

MLSE won't officially buy the Argos while they play at Skydome.

[D-Gap-Willie]

I think MLSE ultimately will buy the Argos, but not until AFTER securing enough public money for the stadium project. After all, this place being a home for the "poor, neglected, homeless" Argonauts is really the only bargaining chip that MLSE has to play when it comes to getting any support to expand this stadium. It's like they're doing the Argos a favor, giving them a place to play. If they OWNED the Argos, they would be doing THEMSELVES a favor instead.

You heard it here first: Announcement that MLSE has purchased the Argonauts comes a month or two AFTER MLSE has secured enough public money to commence its stadium expansion.

I agree with you that there will be no purchase until after all of the funding is in place and guaranteed. However, I disagree about the timing and tend to agree more with Ron's timing ( i.e. not while they they at Skydome.)
I am much more of a cynic about the process that MLSE seeks to follow. If no 20 year lease has yet been signed by the Argos (condition of City financing), you can bet that the lease offered will be far less than attractive to the Argos. It will be at a high rate, with unfavourable choices of game dates, with little or no accommodations to Argo fans, and no chance of any additional revenue for the Argos. If the Argos balk at signing, which they will of course, they will be told " Sign or you will have nowhere to play - where else will you play ? ... and don't worry the lease will soon be a problem only for the new owners MLSE."
With the lease in place, followed by financing and construction at BMO, MLSE will eventually make an offer to buy the Argos for about $1 million, at close to the date of Argos moving to BMO. David Braley will, of course, decline. He will be told, " Fine you can continue as owner. You have signed a lease that passes all your possible profits from attendance and television to MLSE. You will continue to lose buckets of money. Good luck finding another buyer."
...and so the Argos will join the happy MLSE family

[Rich]

I agree with you that there will be no purchase until after all of the funding is in place and guaranteed. However, I disagree about the timing and tend to agree more with Ron's timing ( i.e. not while they they at Skydome.)
I am much more of a cynic about the process that MLSE seeks to follow. If no 20 year lease has yet been signed by the Argos (condition of City financing), you can bet that the lease offered will be far less than attractive to the Argos. It will be at a high rate, with unfavourable choices of game dates, with little or no accommodations to Argo fans, and no chance of any additional revenue for the Argos. If the Argos balk at signing, which they will of course, they will be told " Sign or you will have nowhere to play - where else will you play ? ... and don't worry the lease will soon be a problem only for the new owners MLSE."
With the lease in place, followed by financing and construction at BMO, MLSE will eventually make an offer to buy the Argos for about $1 million, at close to the date of Argos moving to BMO. David Braley will, of course, decline. He will be told, " Fine you can continue as owner. You have signed a lease that passes all your possible profits from attendance and television to MLSE. You will continue to lose buckets of money. Good luck finding another buyer."
...and so the Argos will join the happy MLSE family

This makes sense, but if MLSE is as smart as everyone says they are, then why would they want to damage or diminish a property that they want to eventually buy and install as a anchor in their new stadium?

And if they play hardball with Braley, there's a good chance it will cause some damage to the Argos property.

As a lame-duck owner destined for a $1M sale to MLSE, there's no way Braley will want to spend any money on the team this year. It will be just like C&S's lame duck year. There will be no money for contract extentions, bonuses, staff, facilities or the taxi squad. The team will reflect this both through morale and loss/lack of players, and we'll lose a lot of games.

Wouldn't it be much better for MLSE's bottom line if they bought the Argos sooner rather than later, and invested some money into them, so that they can bring a 13-5 Argonaut team and some excitement into BMO, as opposed to bringing in a sad sack and disappointing 5-13 team for its first season there?

[D-Gap-Willie]

This makes sense, but if MLSE is as smart as everyone says they are, then why would they want to damage or diminish a property that they want to eventually buy and install as a anchor in their new stadium?

And if they play hardball with Braley, there's a good chance it will cause some damage to the Argos property.

As a lame-duck owner destined for a $1M sale to MLSE, there's no way Braley will want to spend any money on the team this year. It will be just like C&S's lame duck year. There will be no money for contract extentions, bonuses, staff, facilities or the taxi squad. The team will reflect this both through morale and loss/lack of players, and we'll lose a lot of games.

Wouldn't it be much better for MLSE's bottom line if they bought the Argos sooner rather than later, and invested some money into them, so that they can bring a 13-5 Argonaut team and some excitement into BMO, as opposed to bringing in a sad sack and disappointing 5-13 team for its first season there?

I agree completely with what you say, which is why there will be no offer/negotiations for purchase while Argos are playing at Skydome, but rather during the off season. I doubt that either Braley or MLSE would make details known "for the sake of the team".

[Argocister]

Crap this is depressing.
Go Argos! Your fans love you!

[OV Argo]

I agree with you that there will be no purchase until after all of the funding is in place and guaranteed. However, I disagree about the timing and tend to agree more with Ron's timing ( i.e. not while they they at Skydome.)
I am much more of a cynic about the process that MLSE seeks to follow. If no 20 year lease has yet been signed by the Argos (condition of City financing), you can bet that the lease offered will be far less than attractive to the Argos. It will be at a high rate, with unfavourable choices of game dates, with little or no accommodations to Argo fans, and no chance of any additional revenue for the Argos. If the Argos balk at signing, which they will of course, they will be told " Sign or you will have nowhere to play - where else will you play ? ... and don't worry the lease will soon be a problem only for the new owners MLSE."
With the lease in place, followed by financing and construction at BMO, MLSE will eventually make an offer to buy the Argos for about $1 million, at close to the date of Argos moving to BMO. David Braley will, of course, decline. He will be told, " Fine you can continue as owner. You have signed a lease that passes all your possible profits from attendance and television to MLSE. You will continue to lose buckets of money. Good luck finding another buyer."
...and so the Argos will join the happy MLSE family

Makes sense what you are saying there; and this says MLSE would only see the Argos as a little pawn in their corporate/sports empire. And does this rule out any other white knight savior buyer emerging to purchase the Argos ? - even if such an individual or group with big bucks did emerge, and made Braley an offer he likes (the Argos are NOT worth much now IMO - that could change all of a sudden if the Argos attendance magically goes way up this season combined with a continued surge in CFL ratings & popularity) - the potential new owner would have nowhere to play, so why bother ??? So it's MLSE or nothing - take it or leave it ???

[ArgoRavi]

Makes sense what you are saying there; and this says MLSE would only see the Argos as a little pawn in their corporate/sports empire. And does this rule out any other white knight savior buyer emerging to purchase the Argos ? - even if such an individual or group with big bucks did emerge, and made Braley an offer he likes (the Argos are NOT worth much now IMO - that could change all of a sudden if the Argos attendance magically goes way up this season combined with a continued surge in CFL ratings & popularity) - the potential new owner would have nowhere to play, so why bother ??? So it's MLSE or nothing - take it or leave it ???

We have been waiting for this White Knight owner for three decades now. What would give anyone reason to believe that this White Knight is going to step up anytime soon?

[ArgoRavi]

Crap this is depressing. Go Argos! Your fans love you!

This scenario is depressing only if it is true. Some of the rumblings I have heard indicate that the deal with MLSE is done and that they are waiting for the Raptors' season to be over to announce anything.

[AngeloV]

Given recent experience with Raptor tickets (highest playoff prices in the NBA) and of course Maple Leaf tickets (highest prices all round in the NHL), I'm not totally indifferent to the concern that MLSE likes to gouge. And I think saying "the market will take care of it" can obviate corporate responsibility for things that are more than just an ordinary product. Spectator sports are a public good that more or less all working people should be able to afford in their own city. It's not clear that MLSE shares that goal given the way they treat their marquee teams.

That said, I don't see the gouging happening with the Argos barring a major upswing in demand. MLSE is not going to take a comparatively fragile ticket base that barely numbers in the five digits and try to squeeze it dry. Getting games up to a 25k sellout regularly (rather than just when Hamilton's in town) will be an initial goal. If it is met, prices might rise modestly. As others have noted, that would be a sign of health not alarm.

I have to agree with you, and before we point the finger at MLSE for raising ticket prices, let me just say that I waited until March to renew my season tickets, and thus did not get the same rate as last year for the same seats. My season tickets went up by about $80 per seat this year. I just wanted to note that for those that are blaming MLSE for rising prices.

[OV Argo]

We have been waiting for this White Knight owner for three decades now. What would give anyone reason to believe that this White Knight is going to step up anytime soon?

Yeah I suppose Ravi' however - I have to point out the situation with Ottawa football = twice folded (including once shut-down by the CFL BOG clowns) after years & years of poor teams with losing records, run by lousy or clueless management & coaches led by gong-show clown owners like the Glibermen & Horn Chen; and yet now - ultra rich local owners in place with a reputation for community involvement and smart sports team management experience (Hunt) - and these guys were in / around Ottawa all that time of the sad sack Rough Rider days and Renegades incompetence. Spanking new stadium in a much different Ottawa situation is the big difference there though; and so you're saying just impossible / no such chance for a local Toronto group to emerge as Argo suitors, and so it's MLSE weasels or nothing else for the Argos ?

[ArgoRavi]

Yeah I suppose Ravi' however - I have to point out the situation with Ottawa football = twice folded (including once shut-down by the CFL BOG clowns) after years & years of poor teams with losing records, run by lousy or clueless management & coaches led by gong-show clown owners like the Glibermen & Horn Chen; and yet now - ultra rich local owners in place with a reputation for community involvement and smart sports team management experience (Hunt) - and these guys were in / around Ottawa all that time of the sad sack Rough Rider days and Renegades incompetence. Spanking new stadium in a much different Ottawa situation is the big difference there though; and so you're saying just impossible / no such chance for a local Toronto group to emerge as Argo suitors, and so it's MLSE weasels or nothing else for the Argos ?

You have pretty much answered your own question here, OV. Nobody but MLSE will step up to buy the Argos and Braley, who simply won't spend the necessary money to grow the franchise, is not a long-term option. If MLSE's pending ownership doesn't excite you, OV, maybe the prospect of having that kid from Degrassi: The Next Generation hanging around on the Argo sideline with his lint brush will. Perhaps he can help Jim Barker lure players to the Argos just as he has with FC.

[Ron]

The white knight has already stepped up. His name is Braley. Without him we'd have a 8 team league this season.

The next white knight is MLSE. They are pretty much a lock to buy the team ... they only stated that they had no interest in buying the Argos as a "stand alone" deal. (meaning ... not at skydome where they are merely a tenant with no synergies) I imagine that before the Argos play an actual game at the new BMO ... MLSE will own them.

[OV Argo]

The white knight has already stepped up. His name is Braley. Without him we'd have a 8 team league this season.

The next white knight is MLSE. They are pretty much a lock to buy the team ... they only stated that they had no interest in buying the Argos as a "stand alone" deal. (meaning ... not at skydome where they are merely a tenant with no synergies) I imagine that before the Argos play an actual game at the new BMO ... MLSE will own them.

Knights and pawns - nice little chess game ... with only one outcome; MLSE it is then, and that's all there is to it. How nice.

[Invader]

The white knight has already stepped up. His name is Braley. Without him we'd have a 8 team league this season.

The next white knight is MLSE. They are pretty much a lock to buy the team ... they only stated that they had no interest in buying the Argos as a "stand alone" deal. (meaning ... not at skydome where they are merely a tenant with no synergies) I imagine that before the Argos play an actual game at the new BMO ... MLSE will own them.

I highly doubt the league or TSN would allow the Argos to cease operations because they have no white knight. The league could operate the Argos indefinately if the other owners agree. Another option is partial community ownership, with the league owning 51% of the shares with 49% for the community, for example. TSN could also run the Argos, like they've done in the past. With the generous new TV contract even TSN would benefit (just like Rogers and the Jays!)

I don't understand MLSE's contention of shunning the "stand-alone" Argos? The team will play at Rogers Centre this season and Rogers owns 37.5% of MLSE. It's not like Rogers would poison their own well water? This tells me something else is up.

If the Argos are moving to a reduced 25,000-seater stadium next season, whoever operates the team this year should benefit from the increased demand for tickets. If the announcement is made next week the Argos have signed a lease at BMO, many casual or traditional walk-up fans will be spurred into buying 5-game flex packs or full seasons tickets, to reserve a comparable seat at BMO next year. Fans who snooze might lose and be shut out of BMO, just like is happening to prospective TFC fans this season.

So it makes sense for MLSE to buy the Argos on May 15th of this year, then put on a real push to fill RC (with the farewell Skydome season) and take deposits on seasons tickets next season at BMO. If MLSE waits, then another owner could step up...perhaps Tanenbaum?

Braley reiterated his game-plan last week of selling at least one of his teams by 2017. There is no panic to sell either team. The Argos will likely go up in value at BMO next year...and up in value again in 2016, after turning a profit with the improved revenue streams, increased TV contract, etc.

Truly this is a win/win situation for the Argos and their ownership. There is little reason for fans to be pessimistic or depressed, happy times should soon be bestowed upon us!

[D-Gap-Willie]

I highly doubt the league or TSN would allow the Argos to cease operations because they have no white knight. The league could operate the Argos indefinately if the other owners agree. Another option is partial community ownership, with the league owning 51% of the shares with 49% for the community, for example. TSN could also run the Argos, like they've done in the past. With the generous new TV contract even TSN would benefit (just like Rogers and the Jays!)

I don't understand MLSE's contention of shunning the "stand-alone" Argos? The team will play at Rogers Centre this season and Rogers owns 37.5% of MLSE. It's not like Rogers would poison their own well water? This tells me something else is up.

If the Argos are moving to a reduced 25,000-seater stadium next season, whoever operates the team this year should benefit from the increased demand for tickets. If the announcement is made next week the Argos have signed a lease at BMO, many casual or traditional walk-up fans will be spurred into buying 5-game flex packs or full seasons tickets, to reserve a comparable seat at BMO next year. Fans who snooze might lose and be shut out of BMO, just like is happening to prospective TFC fans this season.

So it makes sense for MLSE to buy the Argos on May 15th of this year, then put on a real push to fill RC (with the farewell Skydome season) and take deposits on seasons tickets next season at BMO. If MLSE waits, then another owner could step up...perhaps Tanenbaum?

Braley reiterated his game-plan last week of selling at least one of his teams by 2017. There is no panic to sell either team. The Argos will likely go up in value at BMO next year...and up in value again in 2016, after turning a profit with the improved revenue streams, increased TV contract, etc.

Truly this is a win/win situation for the Argos and their ownership. There is little reason for fans to be pessimistic or depressed, happy times should soon be bestowed upon us!

Your assumption that "Argos will likely go up in value at BMO next year" needs to be based on a 20 year lease with BMO that is favourable to the Argos. I have seen no indication that this will be the case, nor do I believe it will be true. Statements have already been made that per game costs will be much higher at BMO because of the union labour there. I also do not believe that MLSE will 'bestow' any other revenue streams on the Argos, be they from concessions, merchandise sales, parking, box rentals, advertisiing or whatever. It makes no sense for MLSE not to play hardball on the lease, after all it is business, and they have all the leverage.

Argos will be very hard-pressed to make a profit at BMO without ancillary incomes. Of course this becomes a moot point if MLSE own Argos since the ancillary incomes will simply be flowing into a different pocket. MLSE will become a hero for taking care of the "money-losing" Argos. This is the same financial structure that the perennial money losing Blue Jays have with Rogers at Skydome.

Of course, once the lease is signed, this would become a poison pill for any other prospective owner. MLSE will be the only option -- other than Larry Tannenbaum, who of course is joined at the hip with MLSE.

Large corporations simply don't think or operate like private ownership. The NFL knows this, and therefore do not allow corporate team ownership.

[Ballstothewall]

Your assumption that "Argos will likely go up in value at BMO next year" needs to be based on a 20 year lease with BMO that is favourable to the Argos. I have seen no indication that this will be the case, nor do I believe it will be true. Statements have already been made that per game costs will be much higher at BMO because of the union labour there. I also do not believe that MLSE will 'bestow' any other revenue streams on the Argos, be they from concessions, merchandise sales, parking, box rentals, advertisiing or whatever. It makes no sense for MLSE not to play hardball on the lease, after all it is business, and they have all the leverage.

Argos will be very hard-pressed to make a profit at BMO without ancillary incomes. Of course this becomes a moot point if MLSE own Argos since the ancillary incomes will simply be flowing into a different pocket. MLSE will become a hero for taking care of the "money-losing" Argos. This is the same financial structure that the perennial money losing Blue Jays have with Rogers at Skydome.

Of course, once the lease is signed, this would become a poison pill for any other prospective owner. MLSE will be the only option -- other than Larry Tannenbaum, who of course is joined at the hip with MLSE.

Large corporations simply don't think or operate like private ownership. The NFL knows this, and therefore do not allow corporate team ownership.

Once MLSE buys the Argos, Leaf Platiunm season ticket holders will have to buy Argo tickets, just like they do for the Raptors and TFC, that 6,000 season tickets right there

[Treblecharger1]

Once MLSE buys the Argos, Leaf Platiunm season ticket holders will have to buy Argo tickets, just like they do for the Raptors and TFC, that 6,000 season tickets right there

The leafs/raptors platinum season ticket holders never had to purchase TFC season tickets. The benefit TFC has over the Argos is the cross promotion to a database of business/consumer clients who are likely to purchase season tickets.