CBA Discussions ......

[Argocister]

I'm hoping the strike vote is the CFLPAs firm way of saying ..... No retro pay , get the deal done before the season starts.
Personally, I think it would have been better for the CFL and the CFLPA to have these negotiations after 1 yr of the new contract with TSN, and one yr with Ottawa. The CFL would feel more comfortable and the CFLPA could ask for more.

[Argo]

In the past I never believed the players would strike, however the players have a lot of leverage on the league now with the new TV deal, new stadiums and a new team joining the league, the players are united and playing hard ball with the league.

This is just about exactly what I was going to post yesterday. There are simply too many critical (positive!) factors active at this time - for all interested parties. If the season is disrupted or cancelled, there is more than enough blame to be shared. Agreement must be reached, and quickly.

[Argocister]

Interesting read ...... https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/cf...172735375.html

[Tau Ceti]

That is an interesting read. All of the player safety proposals seem as obvious as the nose on my face. It would be really nice to see more transparency in negotiation from the league.

[Argocister]

That is an interesting read. All of the player safety proposals seem as obvious as the nose on my face. It would be really nice to see more transparency in negotiation from the league.

Although, if the league agrees with the CFLPA, there isn't any controversy or media PR. this way the league doesn't have to say anything and the media can create the controversy they need to get readers attention. ( here's hoping )

[D-Gap-Willie]

That is an interesting read. All of the player safety proposals seem as obvious as the nose on my face. It would be really nice to see more transparency in negotiation from the league.

Yes, an interesting read, but it also sets off alarm bells for me. There is a very fine line between "transparency" and negotiating via the media. The CFLPA has begun the process of negotiating via the media, whether their intent was that or merely "transparency" is a moot point. The media do not have the best interests of successful negotiations at heart; their interests are in controversy and the reporting thereof.
You have used the phrase "transparency in negotiating" and rightly so. Transparency belongs at the negotiating table and not in the public view, while negotiations are in progress. You and I have no need to know the minutae of the proposals and negotiations. Public debate of these items, while interesting, is highly counter-productive to reaching an agreement.
I would far rather wait for the result of negotiations ( hopefully positive), without an intervening period of acrimony.

[D-Gap-Willie]

That is an interesting read. All of the player safety proposals seem as obvious as the nose on my face. It would be really nice to see more transparency in negotiation from the league.

I agree that the player safety proposals are good, but unfortunately the fans are already presuming that the league does not agree with them. All that has been said is that the league has tabled it for now, perhaps to give it more study.
The compensation plan for career ending injuries is a tremendous idea, but is naive and unworkable. The proposal does not take into account either the players time of service in the league nor the time of the year when the injury occurred. It also does not provide any mechanism for the determination of whether an injury is "career ending" or not.
I take the case of Chad Kackert whose ankle injury may prove to be career ending. Had he been injured in the first game of the season, he would have received almost a year of salary to recover. As it stands, unless he goes on 9 game injury reserve, he will get almost nothing. If the doctors say to him, it's risky but you can resume playing if you want to, is it a career ending injury if he retires?

[paulwoods13]

Yes, an interesting read, but it also sets off alarm bells for me. There is a very fine line between "transparency" and negotiating via the media. The CFLPA has begun the process of negotiating via the media, whether their intent was that or merely "transparency" is a moot point.

The PA and its members have been leaking stuff to reporters (especially Madani) from the very beginning of talks. The league has kept quiet all along.

[Tau Ceti]

You have used the phrase "transparency in negotiating" and rightly so. Transparency belongs at the negotiating table and not in the public view, while negotiations are in progress. You and I have no need to know the minutae of the proposals and negotiations.

You make a fair point Willie. The CFLPA leaking their proposals to make the league look bad (if that was the intention) can be interpreted as under-handed. I don't completely agree that you and I have no need to know, however. We're the ones sitting here having paid for season tickets and flex packs. I think the league could've provided more feedback than they've done thus far.

The compensation plan for career ending injuries is a tremendous idea, but is naive and unworkable. The proposal does not take into account either the players time of service in the league nor the time of the year when the injury occurred. It also does not provide any mechanism for the determination of whether an injury is "career ending" or not.

The plan is not fleshed out but I don't see why it's unworkable. Sports insurance already exists and I'm sure a model can be found that would suit the CFL. The players might give up a couple of % points off their salaries and the teams could perhaps match the amount to create a pool. Determining whether an injury is career ending could be left up to medical professionals.

[Ron]

One must always remember that Flory is honourable and stands by his word. Ask the Riders.

[D-Gap-Willie]

The plan is not fleshed out but I don't see why it's unworkable. Sports insurance already exists and I'm sure a model can be found that would suit the CFL. The players might give up a couple of % points off their salaries and the teams could perhaps match the amount to create a pool. Determining whether an injury is career ending could be left up to medical professionals.

I was merely stating that it was "unworkable" as presented by the CFLPA. Yes, a plan can be "fleshed out", preferably behind closed doors. I restate that it is "a tremendous idea".

One must always remember that Flory is honourable and stands by his word. Ask the Riders.

That's a scary thought !

[Argo]

Excellent open letter by Glen Suitor:
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=452691

[Argocister]

Excellent open letter by Glen Suitor:
http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/story/?id=452691

Good read ..... hopefully some of the CFL and CFLPA negotiators get to read it.
G.Lawless was commenting that the players want the cap to go from the 4.4 to 7 million. ...... I hope that's part of the " ..... I'll go high you go low " tactic.

[ArgoRavi]

Here is another good read from Paul Friesen in the Winnipeg Sun: http://www.winnipegsun.com/2014/05/2...lks-break-down

I seriously doubt that we will see a "strike-shortened season" but a strike vote will hopefully convince the league that it is time to get serious with negotiations.

[D-Gap-Willie]

Here is another good read from Paul Friesen in the Winnipeg Sun: http://www.winnipegsun.com/2014/05/2...lks-break-down

I seriously doubt that we will see a "strike-shortened season" but a strike vote will hopefully convince the league that it is time to get serious with negotiations.

I may have missed it Ravi, but what is the evidence that the the league is not "serious with negotiations". I have to-date only heard players reports of what the league has offered. I hope that those reports are not true, and merely attempts to 'demonize' the league, as part of the CFLPA's efforts to negotiate through the media. Paul Friesen certainly seems to have already decided that the league is indeed the demon.

I can only hope that cooler heads will prevail.

Good read ..... hopefully some of the CFL and CFLPA negotiators get to read it.
G.Lawless was commenting that the players want the cap to go from the 4.4 to 7 million. ...... I hope that's part of the " ..... I'll go high you go low " tactic.

You must be kidding !?! That would be the ultimate in "I want it all -- I want it now" !, even if the $7 million figure is for the last year of the CBA. The increase in TV income is reported to be $26 million per annum -- $2.6 million cap increase per team times 9 teams is $23.4 million, even for the math challenged such as me.

Glen Suitor's letter is excellent. It should be mandatory reading for ALL negotiators. This is not UAW vs General Motors for heavens sake - this is the CFL which is part of the heart and soul of this country.

[Argocister]

Good read ..... hopefully some of the CFL and CFLPA negotiators get to read it.
G.Lawless was commenting that the players want the cap to go from the 4.4 to 7 million. ...... I hope that's part of the " ..... I'll go high you go low " tactic.

You must be kidding !?! That would be the ultimate in "I want it all -- I want it now" !, even if the $7 million figure is for the last year of the CBA. The increase in TV income is reported to be $26 million per annum -- $2.6 million cap increase per team times 9 teams is $23.4 million, even for the math challenged such as me.

Glen Suitor's letter is excellent. It should be mandatory reading for ALL negotiators. This is not UAW vs General Motors for heavens sake - this is the CFL which is part of the heart and soul of this country.

When reading the various " leaks" from the players side of the table, one could tell they were releasing things that made the CFL look bad by not replying or commenting ( eg previous sacrifices, postponing meetings, safety issues)
This comment ... Aiming for 7 mill cap ... Has now put their side of the bargaining on the ridiculous end. That's why I'm thinking it is the extreme and they will come down from there.
Mind you, maybe the players are looking at the 7 million goal and cheering..... Almost double my wage! But I doubt that would happen.


On the side , if there was a big initial jump in the cap .... Wouldn't players wages stay the same unless they either
i) individually negotiated an increase with the cap on their own contracts or
ii) the CBA ,when solved, would include an increase in existing contracts?

[gilthethrill]

Hard to choose sides when both the players & owners have seen hard times for a long time. CFL is the only sport I watch along with CIS & NFL playoffs, I am not optimistic there will be football in Canada this summer...figures, I spent the winter redecorating my basement into an Argonaut Man Cave.

[paulwoods13]

From the beginning, fans have been criticizing the owners for not being ready for or serious about negotiations, all because they allegedly (based on info almost certainly leaked from the players' side) lowballed with their first offer. That is something virtually every company does in every collective bargaining, and yet it ignited a firestorm of outrage and indignation among fans. Now, with contract expiry just days away, the players reportedly employ the same tactic in reverse by asking for a pay increase of 52 per cent (from $4.6M to $7M), and yet few fans seem to be accusing the players of not being ready for or serious about negotiations. Double standard, I would say.

[D-Gap-Willie]

From the beginning, fans have been criticizing the owners for not being ready for or serious about negotiations, all because they allegedly (based on info almost certainly leaked from the players' side) lowballed with their first offer. That is something virtually every company does in every collective bargaining, and yet it ignited a firestorm of outrage and indignation among fans. Now, with contract expiry just days away, the players reportedly employ the same tactic in reverse by asking for a pay increase of 52 per cent (from $4.6M to $7M), and yet few fans seem to be accusing the players of not being ready for or serious about negotiations. Double standard, I would say.

I wonder how many of those outraged and indignant fans are truly devoted and/or long term fans. In most of these negotiations (NFL, NHL, etc) the fans are solidly behind the poor impoverished players, against the evil billionaire owners. It makes me wonder how many of these 'fans' have any idea of the history and nature of the CFL, not to mention the previous labour history. Somehow I sense a transferance of emotions here from other sports negotiations, with little knowledge of anything in the CFL. I really can't see many real CFL fans taking up the double standard banner - or perhaps I am wrong, with old fashioned standards and love of the CFL like Glen Suitor.

[ArgoGabe22]

I wonder what the older alumni think of the CFLPA. Many of them had to take paycuts during the hardtimes to save their team and the whole league for that matter. I'm not even sure they complained about it. Ray Elgaard took many paycuts in his career and now you hear that Geroy won't be taking a pay cut.