QB Durability

[Stevoman]

Just wondering who you thought the most durable starting quarterback has been since you've been watching the Argonauts? While Ray has been durable and a quick healer throughout his career, he has been injured and missed multiple games in both seasons with Toronto. My vote is Doug Flutie. In 2 seasons with Toronto he never missed a game and he usually played almost all of each game. I remember Marquel Fleetwood being his back up in 96 and getting in at the end of 1 game. Andre Ware as backup in 97 played in relief a few times, but Flutie was always out there. I guess being so elusive allowed him to not get hurt.

[ArgoRavi]

Just wondering who you thought the most durable starting quarterback has been since you've been watching the Argonauts? While Ray has been durable and a quick healer throughout his career, he has been injured and missed multiple games in both seasons with Toronto. My vote is Doug Flutie. In 2 seasons with Toronto he never missed a game and he usually played almost all of each game. I remember Marquel Fleetwood being his back up in 96 and getting in at the end of 1 game. Andre Ware as backup in 97 played in relief a few times, but Flutie was always out there. I guess being so elusive allowed him to not get hurt.

I would have to go with Flutie as well. The Argos have had injury problems at QB since Joe Theismann in 1972. Condredge Holloway took a beating and kept on ticking most of the time between '81 and '84 but injuries started to catch up with him finally in '85.

[paulwoods13]

Holloway took an enormous pounding so he would get my vote as the toughest QB, but hard to argue with Flutie given that he never missed a game (albeit played only 40 games).

Kerwin Bell, for all his faults, was also an incredibly tough SOB.

[gilthethrill]

Holloway took an enormous pounding so he would get my vote as the toughest QB, but hard to argue with Flutie given that he never missed a game (albeit played only 40 games).

Kerwin Bell, for all his faults, was also an incredibly tough SOB.

Bell was tough for sure. His worst injury as an Argo occurred in a game against Winnipeg at home, when after scoring a TD he spiked the ball that accidently struck himself in the groin.

If I recall "Big Daddy" Jerry Kraft was responsible for protecting his blindside.

[paulwoods13]

Bell took some absolutely hellacious hits (apart from his errant spike) as an Argo pivot, and always bounced up. Huge pain threshold, I reckon.

[gilthethrill]

Bell took some absolutely hellacious hits (apart from his errant spike) as an Argo pivot, and always bounced up. Huge pain threshold, I reckon.

He sure did Paul.....do you recall the sideline incident in Hamilton when Pinball, who was HC at the time, had to be restrained by several players to prevent him from getting to Kerwin?

[paulwoods13]

He sure did Paul.....do you recall the sideline incident in Hamilton when Pinball, who was HC at the time, had to be restrained by several players to prevent him from getting to Kerwin?

Yes I do. I must have that game on video but I'm not up to 1998 or '99 (whenever it was) in the endless digitization process yet. I did come across a hilarious bit the other day in a 1996 game -- it was O'Shea's first game and the number 50 on his jersey was the ugliest piece of garbage ever worn on a football field. Looked like poorly cut masking tape that had been ironed on. I'll post that footage one of these days.

[OV Argo]

Damon Allen was gumby like - for a slight QB - he sure had the knack to avoid hits and absorb some punishment - helps when you are so quick & athletic.

Flutie was a freak - talent wise and durability wise; I'm sure all the naysayers were predicting the "midget" would get killled in pro ball - didn't happen in the CFL, nor the all-mighty, super-heroes only need apply NFL.

[jerrym]

I'd have to take Damon considering how long his entire career was and how he managed to play relatively healthy throughout his time with the Argos well into his 40s.

[ArgoRavi]

He sure did Paul.....do you recall the sideline incident in Hamilton when Pinball, who was HC at the time, had to be restrained by several players to prevent him from getting to Kerwin?

That was the final time Bell ever suited up for the Argos. It was the season finale in 2001 and that loss cost the Argos a playoff spot.

I'd have to take Damon considering how long his entire career was and how he managed to play relatively healthy throughout his time with the Argos well into his 40s.

Allen was durable for most of his career but he missed a good chunk of the '04 season with a broken leg and then missed most of his final season in '07 with an injury as well. He also missed significant time early in the '06 season (remember Spergon Wynn?). In other words, he wasn't so durable with the Argos.

[LLB997]

Toughest is Flutie for sure. As for not so tough?? Didn't Lemon miss a game because of a chipped tooth?? lol. Its all good , he had a decent smile he had to take care of

[Neely2005]

I don't know if Michael Bishop counts but I don't remember him being hurt.

[ArgoGabe22]

I don't know if Michael Bishop counts but I don't remember him being hurt.

There was a time, I think in '07 that Allen got injured, Bishop then went 11-0 as a starter but then got injured and then Rocky Butler couldn't win a game (lost 6 without Bishop). I think Butler then got injured and then Allen came back for the playoffs. My memory is starting to fade.

This was the moment when I thought Bishop would finally be the starter but then on the same day announcing his re-signing, we traded for Kerry Joseph. One of the strangest press conferences I have seen.

[Neely2005]

There was a time, I think in '07 that Allen got injured, Bishop then went 11-0 as a starter but then got injured and then Rocky Butler couldn't win a game (lost 6 without Bishop). I think Butler then got injured and then Allen came back for the playoffs. My memory is starting to fade.

This was the moment when I thought Bishop would finally be the starter but then on the same day announcing his re-signing, we traded for Kerry Joseph. One of the strangest press conferences I have seen.

Yeah Bishop was always a favourite of mine, that guy had a cannon for an arm! To bad that he was never able to put it all together.

[ArgoRavi]

There was a time, I think in '07 that Allen got injured, Bishop then went 11-0 as a starter but then got injured and then Rocky Butler couldn't win a game (lost 6 without Bishop). I think Butler then got injured and then Allen came back for the playoffs. My memory is starting to fade. This was the moment when I thought Bishop would finally be the starter but then on the same day announcing his re-signing, we traded for Kerry Joseph. One of the strangest press conferences I have seen.

You are pretty close in your recollection. Allen was the starter in the first week but was either pulled or injured (can't exactly remember which it was) and Bishop started and won the next couple of games in Hamilton and at home to Calgary in what may have been his finest performance ever (although he had another very good one in the final week of the '07 season in Regina). However, during the third quarter of the Calgary game, Bishop sustained a wrist/hand injury and was out for the next six weeks. Mike McMahon replaced Bishop and Ian (Rocky) Butler was signed but McMahon was absolutely wretched in the return engagement in Calgary and was pulled after a couple of series the following week against Montreal which effectively ended his Argo and football career. Allen came back off the bench at that point but was injured the next week in Montreal and only made it back on the roster in the final week or two of the regular season. However, he never took a snap again and was the third stringer behind Bishop and Butler by the end of that season. Bishop was the QB in the East Final and played horribly as the Argos lost 19-9 to Winnipeg and lost the chance to play in the Grey Cup at home.

[paulwoods13]

You are pretty close in your recollection. Allen was the starter in the first week but was either pulled or injured (can't exactly remember which it was) and Bishop started and won the next couple of games in Hamilton and at home to Calgary in what may have been his finest performance ever (although he had another very good one in the final week of the '07 season in Regina). However, during the third quarter of the Calgary game, Bishop sustained a wrist/hand injury and was out for the next six weeks. Mike McMahon replaced Bishop and Ian (Rocky) Butler was signed but McMahon was absolutely wretched in the return engagement in Calgary and was pulled after a couple of series the following week against Montreal which effectively ended his Argo and football career. Allen came back off the bench at that point but was injured the next week in Montreal and only made it back on the roster in the final week or two of the regular season. However, he never took a snap again and was the third stringer behind Bishop and Butler by the end of that season. Bishop was the QB in the East Final and played horribly as the Argos lost 19-9 to Winnipeg and lost the chance to play in the Grey Cup at home.

Ravi, you need to write a book about the 2000s-era Argos -- your recollection of details is beyond mind-boggling! ;->

[OV Argo]

Ravi, you need to write a book about the 2000s-era Argos -- your recollection of details is beyond mind-boggling! ;->

Agreed Paul - between the 2 of you guys (and some others here) - I am often amazed at the memory of minute Argo details of days gone by !

[gilthethrill]

You are pretty close in your recollection. Allen was the starter in the first week but was either pulled or injured (can't exactly remember which it was) and Bishop started and won the next couple of games in Hamilton and at home to Calgary in what may have been his finest performance ever (although he had another very good one in the final week of the '07 season in Regina). However, during the third quarter of the Calgary game, Bishop sustained a wrist/hand injury and was out for the next six weeks. Mike McMahon replaced Bishop and Ian (Rocky) Butler was signed but McMahon was absolutely wretched in the return engagement in Calgary and was pulled after a couple of series the following week against Montreal which effectively ended his Argo and football career. Allen came back off the bench at that point but was injured the next week in Montreal and only made it back on the roster in the final week or two of the regular season. However, he never took a snap again and was the third stringer behind Bishop and Butler by the end of that season. Bishop was the QB in the East Final and played horribly as the Argos lost 19-9 to Winnipeg and lost the chance to play in the Grey Cup at home.

The ironic thing about Bishops injury in that Calgary game was he was going to be pulled after that series ( I believe he was hurt on a short TD run) because the Argos were blowing out a tired Stampeder team. His TD to INT ratio was 22-11...had he stayed healthy, and I know argotom will agree with me, Bishop in my eyes, would have garnered votes for league MVP that season.

[ArgoZ]

Flutie was rarely sacked in his two years here. A lot of credit should also go to the very skilled O-line he had and a great blocking back in Drummond. Of course a scrambling QB is always going to be hard to catch, but Flutie was just so quick with the ball and had many options to get out of danger. Always reliable Masotti or Mookie always seemed open and his shovel passes to Pinball were almost unstoppable.

I heard many predictions that he was going to get killed in the mighty NFL. Some boldy predicted the first snap. I can recall one huge hit in Flutie's career. It was on the final play of the 98 playoff game, where he held on too long and was just blindsided by a Miami defender. I guess he couldn't find anyone open in that small endzone.

[ArgoGabe22]

The ironic thing about Bishops injury in that Calgary game was he was going to be pulled after that series ( I believe he was hurt on a short TD run)

You're right gil, he was injured on the one yard line while on a run.