TV Blackouts ?

[ArgoRedneck]

The STH post got me thinking about this. If the Argos blacked out home games will attendance increase? I know that the Argos have lots of fans within an hour drive of the Roger center. But I find these fans to be a little hypocritical. They watch the Argos, cheer for the Argos, have opinions on the team, want them to thrive yet never leave the house and come down to support them. Is it because it is so much easier to order a pizza, grab a 6 pack, and watch the game on HD TV at home? No traffic, parking issues. Blackouts won't effect me as I drive the 1 1/2 hours to the games to support the team. Is it time to blackout the GTA and get people out of the house and down to the game. The NFL has some of the best sport brains in the world and they impose blackouts. Must be some reason they do it. Attendance will only go up.

Don't need to hear that the TSN deal won't allow it. We don't know that. There could be a clause in the TV deal that may allow teams to blackout games. This sould have been delt with before the deal, and its only in the GTA, they would not be losing a lot of viewers.

[Will]

The blackout policy the Argos and Ticats had in the GTA in the 1980's is part of the reason that the Argos are in the attendance mess that they are currently in. Why would we implement the same policy now?

[AngeloV]

Hard to say. A lot of people firmly believe that the Argos lost a generation of fans due to the blackouts of the 70's and 80's. I have never bought into that theory, because despite the blackouts then, the Argos were way more visible in the media during those years.

I personally believe that the lost generation of fans came more due to the sudden rise in the NFL salaries around 1983, leading many people to determine that since NFL players are paid so much more than CFL players, the CFL must be a 2nd rate league.

[paulwoods13]

There's no way of knowing definitively whether blackouts were a primary reason for the steady decline in attendance that began in the early 1980s. Lifting blackouts starting in 1991 clearly has not led to a sizeable and sustainable increase in attendance. However, IMO the risk of blacking out again is that it would drive away casual viewers who at least have potential to become fans, without significantly increasing actual game attendance. So it would become a lose-lose proposition, essentially. I know there are others who feel differently, and obviously the only way to test the theory would be to change the practice for a sustained period of time. I just think the risk is far bigger than the potential reward.

[DanoT]

Isn't there some technical problem allowing blackouts for regular TV, but they are unable to blackout HD TV?

[ArgoRedneck]

The blackout policy the Argos and Ticats had in the GTA in the 1980's is part of the reason that the Argos are in the attendance mess that they are currently in. Why would we implement the same policy now?

To get more out of the house and to the game. 14 years and under with adult are free. Get the parents out to the game with the kids. Can it get much worse? Is that not what has happend with Blue Jays attendance also. Did that policy also effect the Jays games? Don't think so. People just want to stay at home and watch on TV. As stated, some of the brightest people in sports work in the NFL. If it is such a bad idea why do they do it? I would say to get the locals to the game.

[AngeloV]

To get more out of the house and to the game. 14 years and under with adult are free. Get the parents out to the game with the kids. Can it get much worse? Is that not what has happend with Blue Jays attendance also. Did that policy also effect the Jays games? Don't think so. People just want to stay at home and watch on TV. As stated, some of the brightest people in sports work in the NFL. If it is such a bad idea why do they do it? I would say to get the locals to the game.

Good idea. Maybe opening up the 500 level as a family section where there is no alcohol served and as you say allow 1 child under 14 in free with the purchase of an adult ticket would be a good chance worth taking.

[ArgoRedneck]

Good idea. Maybe opening up the 500 level as a family section where there is no alcohol served and as you say allow 1 child under 14 in free with the purchase of an adult ticket would be a good chance worth taking.

They are actually running that promotion all season right now. Silver, Gold, Platinum seats are free for 14 and under with adult. Its ruffled a few feathers, cost me a little extra compared to someone buying single game tickets in my section and bringing a youth, but think it is a good idea.

[Invader]

The blackout policy the Argos and Ticats had in the GTA in the 1980's is part of the reason that the Argos are in the attendance mess that they are currently in. Why would we implement the same policy now?

Back in the 80's the CFL had a "secondary" blackout rule which the league has now abandoned. Back then, when the Argos had a home game all other CFL games on TV had to be blacked-out in the GTA for the entire day. Since the league used to schedule multiple Saturday games back then, Toronto fans were effectively blacked-out from watching any CFL games that week on TV.

In addition there was overlapping blackouts in the Hamilton and Toronto markets. So when the Ticats had a home game which was not sold-out, not only was Hamilton blacked-out but the GTA was blacked-out also. Coupled with the secondary blackout rule, it essentially shutout southern Ontario from watching CFL football that week (unless there were games played on days the Argos and Ticats did not have home games.)

This could never happen today because the CFL got rid of the secondary rule (now other CFL games can be shown on TV in Toronto on Argo game days). In addition the Hamilton and Toronto blackout regions no longer overlap (i.e. a Ticat home game can never blackout Toronto).

But the facts are the Argos have voluntarily lifted the blackouts in Toronto for the past 25 years. The Argos also have the smallest season ticket base by far, less than half of the next lowest CFL team. So either lifting the blackouts has resulted in many Argo fans choosing to watch home games on TV...or Toronto has the worst football fans in Canada by a wide margin.

I'd go with the former, that lifting home blackouts with plenty of good seats available, has resulted in many fans not bothering to buy seasons tickets. Instead they'll buy single-game tickets for the games they want to see and watch the remaining home games on TV.

This is borne out by the fact the Argos have the strongest walkup crowd in the league, by a huge margin. Nearly 2/3rds of Argo fans attending home games are walkup fans who don't buy seasons tickets.

A fan is a fan, but having a strong season ticket base is important in football. Teams can't always win. When the team or the season go into the tank, those season tickets have already been sold and paid for, so the fans will still come out to watch a losing team and the team earns that revenue. With a walkup based crowd, fans are more apt to pass on buying tickets when their team flounders.

So by lifting the home blackouts for 25 years, the Argos have cultivated a fan-base of TV fans and walkup fans. Nothing wrong with that except the Argo coffers have taken a beating. The doubling of the new TV contract will help allay this somewhat, but CFL teams will still earn twice as much from ticket sales as from TV.

Instituting a blackout policy now is kind of like closing the barn door after half the cows have escaped. Close to half of Argo TV fans now watch on HDTV, which apparently cannot be blacked-out. The league's TV contract with TSN allows for fewer blackouts, with the Argos and Ticats restricted to only 2 per year (while other teams can blackout 5 games, like the Lions did last season).

It should be noted that blackouts are automatically lifted if 90% of the tickets are sold 24 hrs before kickoff.

I had proposed a couple years back that the Argos should bring back blackouts (and negotiate that into the new TV contract) on a limited basis...but only as a marketing tool to help sell seasons tickets. Announce to the fans that up to 5 Argo home games could be blacked-out in the GTA this season, when ticket sales were below 26,000 (83% capacity of the lower bowl), for example.

Promote the fact that purchasing seasons tickets is the only way fans can guarantee they'll be able to watch every Argo game, plus they'll save 30% from single-game ticket prices...and in addition are helping to support the Argos and CFL.

Other CFL team's season ticket bases range from 15,000 to 26,000. With the Argos at a rumoured "8,000", this is a financial handicap the Argos suffer when compared to their competitors.

Rome wasn't built in a day. The Argos will need to incrementally build up their seasons ticket base over time, just like it has eroded...and moving to a 25,000-30,000 capacity stadium just might be the ticket.

[paulwoods13]

But the facts are the Argos have voluntarily lifted the blackouts in Toronto for the past 25 years. The Argos also have the smallest season ticket base by far, less than half of the next lowest CFL team. So either lifting the blackouts has resulted in many Argo fans choosing to watch home games on TV...or Toronto has the worst football fans in Canada by a wide margin.

I'd go with the former, that lifting home blackouts with plenty of good seats available, has resulted in many fans not bothering to buy seasons tickets. Instead they'll buy single-game tickets for the games they want to see and watch the remaining home games on TV.

This is borne out by the fact the Argos have the strongest walkup crowd in the league, by a huge margin. Nearly 2/3rds of Argo fans attending home games are walkup fans who don't buy seasons tickets.

A fan is a fan, but having a strong season ticket base is important in football. Teams can't always win. When the team or the season go into the tank, those season tickets have already been sold and paid for, so the fans will still come out to watch a losing team and the team earns that revenue. With a walkup based crowd, fans are more apt to pass on buying tickets when their team flounders.

So by lifting the home blackouts for 25 years, the Argos have cultivated a fan-base of TV fans and walkup fans. Nothing wrong with that except the Argo coffers have taken a beating. The doubling of the new TV contract will help allay this somewhat, but CFL teams will still earn twice as much from ticket sales as from TV.

I'd like to know the source of some of your claims (number of season-ticket holders, less than half of other teams, strongest walkup crowds in the league), but to the specific point of this thread, if lifting blackouts caused crowds to dwindle in such a cause-and-effect way, how do you explain attendance declining steadily and steeply between 1982 and 1988, when home games were still being blacked out, and rising sharply in 1991 and 2005 (to give a couple of examples), when there were no blackouts? I don't think there is any one cause for Argo attendance issues, and as I said above I believe the negative impact from reinstituting blackouts would more than offset any attendance gain.

[gilthethrill]

Hard to say. A lot of people firmly believe that the Argos lost a generation of fans due to the blackouts of the 70's and 80's. I have never bought into that theory, because despite the blackouts then, the Argos were way more visible in the media during those years.

I personally believe that the lost generation of fans came more due to the sudden rise in the NFL salaries around 1983, leading many people to determine that since NFL players are paid so much more than CFL players, the CFL must be a 2nd rate league.

Also, around that same time people bought into the belief that it was sexier to watch a team come in from NY city as opposed to a team coming into to town from Regina etc..

[rdavies]

I personally believe that the lost generation of fans came more due to the sudden rise in the NFL salaries around 1983, leading many people to determine that since NFL players are paid so much more than CFL players, the CFL must be a 2nd rate league.

I think that played a big part as well.

[rdavies]

Also, around that same time people bought into the belief that it was sexier to watch a team come in from NY city as opposed to a team coming into to town from Regina etc..

But the funny part is, that doesn't come into play in hockey or soccer, where the Canadian teams are the best draws. Toronto is the Woody Allen of cities.

[Will]

But the funny part is, that doesn't come into play in hockey or soccer, where the Canadian teams are the best draws. Toronto is the Woody Allen of cities.

Well the NBA and MLB do not have any other Canadian teams from which to draw on.

[ArgoRedneck]

Back in the 80's the CFL had a "secondary" blackout rule which the league has now abandoned. Back then, when the Argos had a home game all other CFL games on TV had to be blacked-out in the GTA for the entire day. Since the league used to schedule multiple Saturday games back then, Toronto fans were effectively blacked-out from watching any CFL games that week on TV.

In addition there was overlapping blackouts in the Hamilton and Toronto markets. So when the Ticats had a home game which was not sold-out, not only was Hamilton blacked-out but the GTA was blacked-out also. Coupled with the secondary blackout rule, it essentially shutout southern Ontario from watching CFL football that week (unless there were games played on days the Argos and Ticats did not have home games.)

This could never happen today because the CFL got rid of the secondary rule (now other CFL games can be shown on TV in Toronto on Argo game days). In addition the Hamilton and Toronto blackout regions no longer overlap (i.e. a Ticat home game can never blackout Toronto).

But the facts are the Argos have voluntarily lifted the blackouts in Toronto for the past 25 years. The Argos also have the smallest season ticket base by far, less than half of the next lowest CFL team. So either lifting the blackouts has resulted in many Argo fans choosing to watch home games on TV...or Toronto has the worst football fans in Canada by a wide margin.

I'd go with the former, that lifting home blackouts with plenty of good seats available, has resulted in many fans not bothering to buy seasons tickets. Instead they'll buy single-game tickets for the games they want to see and watch the remaining home games on TV.

This is borne out by the fact the Argos have the strongest walkup crowd in the league, by a huge margin. Nearly 2/3rds of Argo fans attending home games are walkup fans who don't buy seasons tickets.

A fan is a fan, but having a strong season ticket base is important in football. Teams can't always win. When the team or the season go into the tank, those season tickets have already been sold and paid for, so the fans will still come out to watch a losing team and the team earns that revenue. With a walkup based crowd, fans are more apt to pass on buying tickets when their team flounders.

So by lifting the home blackouts for 25 years, the Argos have cultivated a fan-base of TV fans and walkup fans. Nothing wrong with that except the Argo coffers have taken a beating. The doubling of the new TV contract will help allay this somewhat, but CFL teams will still earn twice as much from ticket sales as from TV.

Instituting a blackout policy now is kind of like closing the barn door after half the cows have escaped. Close to half of Argo TV fans now watch on HDTV, which apparently cannot be blacked-out. The league's TV contract with TSN allows for fewer blackouts, with the Argos and Ticats restricted to only 2 per year (while other teams can blackout 5 games, like the Lions did last season).

It should be noted that blackouts are automatically lifted if 90% of the tickets are sold 24 hrs before kickoff.

I had proposed a couple years back that the Argos should bring back blackouts (and negotiate that into the new TV contract) on a limited basis...but only as a marketing tool to help sell seasons tickets. Announce to the fans that up to 5 Argo home games could be blacked-out in the GTA this season, when ticket sales were below 26,000 (83% capacity of the lower bowl), for example.

Promote the fact that purchasing seasons tickets is the only way fans can guarantee they'll be able to watch every Argo game, plus they'll save 30% from single-game ticket prices...and in addition are helping to support the Argos and CFL.

Other CFL team's season ticket bases range from 15,000 to 26,000. With the Argos at a rumoured "8,000", this is a financial handicap the Argos suffer when compared to their competitors.

Rome wasn't built in a day. The Argos will need to incrementally build up their seasons ticket base over time, just like it has eroded...and moving to a 25,000-30,000 capacity stadium just might be the ticket.

Great post. Thanks

[ArgoZ]

Isn't there some technical problem allowing blackouts for regular TV, but they are unable to blackout HD TV?

There used to be. A lot of HD used to be nationally broadcast, as it was newer technology. HD also used to get American commercials during the Super Bowl. That is all done with now and HD games can easily be blacked out.

[Argo57]

Hard to say. A lot of people firmly believe that the Argos lost a generation of fans due to the blackouts of the 70's and 80's. I have never bought into that theory, because despite the blackouts then, the Argos were way more visible in the media during those years.

I personally believe that the lost generation of fans came more due to the sudden rise in the NFL salaries around 1983, leading many people to determine that since NFL players are paid so much more than CFL players, the CFL must be a 2nd rate league.

Much truth in what you have said Angelo, however the youth back in the early 1980's that didn't attend "live" Argonaut games at the CNE simply stayed home and watched the NFL games (and their slick production) and weren't exposed to our great game.
argofan87 hit the nail on the head , we are still suffering the effects from the short sighted blackout rule from those years!!

[Qman]

Much truth in what you have said Angelo, however the youth back in the early 1980's that didn't attend "live" Argonaut games at the CNE simply stayed home and watched the NFL games (and their slick production) and weren't exposed to our great game.
argofan87 hit the nail on the head , we are still suffering the effects from the short sighted blackout rule from those years!!

Real revenue growth is from TV money, not butts in the seats. Argos attendance has been in the 20-25,000 for 30 years thats why the new stadium will only be 26,000.
They need to turn 800,000k views per game into over a 1million+ per game, if they want to see the next TV contract go from 42m per season to 80m-100m per season.

No way they black out any games any more.!

[Argocister]

Real revenue growth is from TV money, not butts in the seats. Argos attendance has been in the 20-25,000 for 30 years thats why the new stadium will only be 26,000.
They need to turn 800,000k views per game into over a 1million+ per game, if they want to see the next TV contract go from 42m per season to 80m-100m per season.

No way they black out any games any more.!

I agree.... The future revenue growth will be from the media contracts. It will be similar to the larger pro sport leagues in North America, where the TV revenues are what carries the league over the ticket sales.

Saying that, in the CFL the ticket sales are still an important source of revenue..... Maybe Argos could negotiate a larger piece of the pie of the TV revenues since Southern Ontario is a main draw for TV audience. ...... Ps I know it won't happen but still a thought.

[Invader]

I'd like to know the source of some of your claims (number of season-ticket holders, less than half of other teams, strongest walkup crowds in the league), but to the specific point of this thread, if lifting blackouts caused crowds to dwindle in such a cause-and-effect way, how do you explain attendance declining steadily and steeply between 1982 and 1988, when home games were still being blacked out, and rising sharply in 1991 and 2005 (to give a couple of examples), when there were no blackouts? I don't think there is any one cause for Argo attendance issues, and as I said above I believe the negative impact from reinstituting blackouts would more than offset any attendance gain.

It was reported a couple weeks ago that the Argos were trending to 8,000 season tickets. The RedBlacks reported 16,000 a couple weeks ago (with their home opener already soldout) and the Ticats intimated they were at 15,000 ST, with club and premium seating soldout for the season. The Lions prez said last week the Lions were at the 15,000 ST mark. It was also reported the Stamps have over 20,000 ST-holders and the Esks were at 26,500. The Riders said they capped ST sales at 26,000. The Bombers said they were down 3,000 from the 25,000 ST they sold last year (22,000).

So that's were I derived at the Argos season ticket sales being half the next nearest team, assuming the 8,000 target of the Argos was correct.

Using simple arithmetic, if the Argos averaged over 22,000 fans last year but had only 10,000 ST-holders, for example, that would make their walkup crowds the largest in the CFL (as most teams sell the majority of their tickets to ST-holders, not walkups).

In 2005, the Argos had an exciting team which had just won the Grey Cup, so that may account for their uptick in attendance...along with the reported papering of the crowd in the early Cynamon & Sokolowski regime.

I believe the Argos lifting their home blackouts for 25 years, while plenty of good seats were still available, has hurt their ability to sell seasons tickets. That wasn't the only factor on the decline of the Argo ST-base, but it was a contributing factor.

Another factor in the diminished Argo fan support was obviously the ascension of the BJ's. Baseball gave fans another sporting option in the summer and when the BJ's really started to click, there is no denying they stole the hearts of TO sports fans...including many Argo fans. More recently the Raptors and TFC have also stolen some Argo headlines and fan support. There is only so many disposable dollars available for sports tickets and there is more competition today, than in the 70's or 80's.