Is lack of sustained on-field success a factor in Argo attendance problems?

[Will]

The Argos were a pretty successful team from 1982 to 1991. They went 103-69 (with a couple of ties sprinkled in) in that time and won 2 GC's, 2 Eastern Division championships and finished 1st 6 x. Since then can you point to a sustained period of success for the Argonauts? Of course, attendance only went down at CNE during this period. They went into the toilet from 1992 to 1995, which is when the real attendance collapse occurred and fielded arguably the best teams in CFL history in 1996 and 1997. They then struggled from 1998 to 2001 before having a period of success from 2002 to 2007 that saw attendance (at least superficially) increase, but then the team subsequently went into the toilet from 2008 to 2011. That may be part of the issue along with the bad luck the Argos had with McNall owning the team and then C & S's controversy as they left. The Argos were building momentum again in 1991 and 2004-2007, but the off-field product suffered and attendance suffered again. It's obviously not the entire problem, but I was wondering if it was a factor.

[gilthethrill]

Leo Cahill was right. When the Jays came to town it started. Toronto started wanting more than a small All Canadian league.

[Will]

Leo Cahill was right. When the Jays came to town it started. Toronto started wanting more than a small All Canadian league.

But, even that attendance decline in the late 1970's could partially be explained by the lousy product the Argos were putting on the field. The Argos averaged somewhere around 47k or something right around the time the Jays arrived in 1977 and that was down closer to 30k by 1981 when the Argos were 2-14. The attendance went up to the high 30 k for the 1982 and 1983 seasons before falling again. It isn't as if the Jays were an attendance king in their early history either, it wasn't until 1984-1985 that things really changed IMO.

[Mulder]

But, even that attendance decline in the late 1970's could partially be explained by the lousy product the Argos were putting on the field. The Argos averaged somewhere around 47k or something right around the time the Jays arrived in 1977 and that was down closer to 30k by 1981 when the Argos were 2-14. The attendance went up to the high 30 k for the 1982 and 1983 seasons before falling again. It isn't as if the Jays were an attendance king in their early history either, it wasn't until 1984-1985 that things really changed IMO.

A lousy venue probably another reason. Argos haven't played in a football only facility since the Jays came. I remember maybe people in my section cancelling their season tickets between 2007-2009 citing the venue & how they hated being harassed by security.

[Will]

A lousy venue probably another reason. Argos haven't played in a football only facility since the Jays came. I remember maybe people in my section cancelling their season tickets between 2007-2009 citing the venue & how they hated being harassed by security.

I know. I sat right behind you

[paulwoods13]

The Jays became competitive in 1983. In 1984, Argo attendance started declining. The two events are linked, but there are other factors including the disappearance of pent-up demand for a winner after the team finally won the Grey Cup, and Ralph Sazio's reluctance to spend money on marketing -- the Argos should have capitalized on their victory but instead went silent.

I don't think the absence of sustained periods of success has been a major factor. The Argos' greatest financial success (1976-79) came when the team was lousy on the field, and no franchise in any sport can rely on winning every year to be successful at the gate.

[gilthethrill]

After winning the 100th Grey Cup, now granted, I don't reside in the GTA, but was there even an effort from the marketing stand point to market the team? It was followed up with no Fan Day, without an explanation to the fans. I can walk into a sports store here in Stratford and buy TFC apparel...why no CFL/Argo merchandise? Seems to be a challenge to get opening day lineups as well. It just comes across as a lack of something. I really can't explain the lack of exposure this storied franchise seems to get. How do you get people out to the stadium (another issue) without exposure?

[Will]

The strange part about the Argo front office is that I am happy with my ticket rep. I can't speak for the others, but I get the sense that the ticket reps are generally on the ball. However, it is the marketing department that seems lacking and I don't know if that's for a lack of budget or the staff working there. We simply don't know.

[T-Bone]

I can walk into a sports store here in Stratford and buy TFC apparel...why no CFL/Argo merchandise?

Merchandise requires a large upfront investment. You have to buy the stuff first and then sell it. If it doesn't sell you are stuck with it and you lose your investment. Braley doesn't appear to be handing out to much extra cash so I can understand why there isn't much more than the basic league issued Argos merchandise.

[paulwoods13]

I've written this before -- the league has gotten product into stores in this market, generally without much success, in the past decade. After the new unis came in for the 2005 season, National Sports had a truckload of Argo and Tiger-Cat merchandise, eventually including very nice Ricky Williams jerseys with sewn-on numbers as well as lower-quality Bishop, Avery and Allen jerseys. Plus hats, hoodies, sweatshirts, T-shirts, jackets, even sweat pants. Eventually they had to blow all that stuff out at rock-bottom prices. You can create all the merchandise in the world, but merchants won't put it on the shelf if they don't believe it will sell. The evidence suggests that Argo and CFL merchandise does not sell in this market. It would be nice if every sports store carried a pile of stuff, but I don't blame them for not doing so.

[ArgoGabe22]

I've written this before -- the league has gotten product into stores in this market, generally without much success, in the past decade. After the new unis came in for the 2005 season, National Sports had a truckload of Argo and Tiger-Cat merchandise, eventually including very nice Ricky Williams jerseys with sewn-on numbers as well as lower-quality Bishop, Avery and Allen jerseys. Plus hats, hoodies, sweatshirts, T-shirts, jackets, even sweat pants. Eventually they had to blow all that stuff out at rock-bottom prices. You can create all the merchandise in the world, but merchants won't put it on the shelf if they don't believe it will sell. The evidence suggests that Argo and CFL merchandise does not sell in this market. It would be nice if every sports store carried a pile of stuff, but I don't blame them for not doing so.

I agree 100% with this. Let's be honest here, Argos merchandise does not sell well. In that case could they not create a larger online store and have reebok products made on demand? I'm no expert but I don't think having shirts screen printed is a huge hassle. Reebok will have a supply of blank navy cotton shirts (or whatever) anyways.

[Argo]

I agree 100% with this. Let's be honest here, Argos merchandise does not sell well. In that case could they not create a larger online store and have reebok products made on demand? I'm no expert but I don't think having shirts screen printed is a huge hassle. Reebok will have a supply of blank navy cotton shirts (or whatever) anyways.

... This ...

[Argo]

To momentarily (somewhat) hijack this thread: it seems that every time the Argos play such that there is noteworthy U.S. exposure involved (Grey Cup telecasts aside), the team craps the bed.

[rdavies]

The Argos' greatest financial success (1976-79) came when the team was lousy on the field

Well, we know Toronto loves a loser and has a lot of experience with that.

Can't help but think of the TV Series Slings and Arrows and what the marketing firm Frog Hammer did to help the festival with rebranding. I think the Argos need a Frog Hammer to bring about a Youthquake.

I'm only half kidding because the laissez-faire approach they are taking is killing the team. At least seem to be fighting back in the marketplace. The old adage I use is the anti aircraft guns during the blitz in London in WWII. They never hit a damn thing but they lifted morale and gave people hope that they were fighting back. Doing nothing just allows more fans and potential fans to fade away.

[Will]

The Spits and Hurricanes took care of enough on their own

[Neely2005]

Well, we know Toronto loves a loser and has a lot of experience with that.

Can't help but think of the TV Series Slings and Arrows and what the marketing firm Frog Hammer did to help the festival with rebranding. I think the Argos need a Frog Hammer to bring about a Youthquake.

I'm only half kidding because the laissez-faire approach they are taking is killing the team. At least seem to be fighting back in the marketplace. The old adage I use is the anti aircraft guns during the blitz in London in WWII. They never hit a damn thing but they lifted morale and gave people hope that they were fighting back. Doing nothing just allows more fans and potential fans to fade away.

Yeah Toronto is a weird sports town, it almost seems that the worse that you do the more beloved that you are.

Why does everyone keep saying that the Argonauts don't do any marketing?

There's Video of it too:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/cfl...es-cfl-better/



Radio ads on FAN 590.
Radio ads on AM 640.
Radio ads on TSN 1050.
Radio ads on Q107.
Local TV ads.
Home Opener contest on Global TV Toronto
Home Opener contest on Q107.
Home Opener contest on 94.9 The Rock.

That's doing "Jack crap"? (And BTW that's Not what Cohon said)


http://www.argofans.com/showthread.p...arketing-sucks

[rdavies]

Why does everyone keep saying that the Argonauts don't do any marketing?

I'm not so much concerned with advertising as I am with publicity. Someone has to get out there and be energetic and visible and preach the gospel. They need someone to slay dragons and put out fires and it shouldn't be the commish on PTS. Pinball was a great ambassador in the past and they need someone like him to step to the plate.

[rdavies]

The Spits and Hurricanes took care of enough on their own

Hurricanes were highly underrated, had a much higher kill ratio than the Spits. When I was looking that up, was reminded about Elsie MacGill "Queen of the Hurricanes" ... would make a great movie.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[Argocister]

..........Someone has to get out there and be energetic and visible and preach the gospel. They need someone to slay dragons and put out fires ..........

They need some crazy advertising group to stage Jason doing exactly that.... putting out fires! (especially at portable training facilities) .... fighting dragons... at dragon boat races, or down by the Aquarium. .... or the tall ship fighting the pirates trying to escape with Argo fans prior to a home game.... Jason can get us there!.....

(sorry, work after a long weekend is way too much of a drag before the home opener.... I should have taken it off)

[argolio]

The Jays became competitive in 1983. In 1984, Argo attendance started declining. The two events are linked, but there are other factors including the disappearance of pent-up demand for a winner after the team finally won the Grey Cup, and Ralph Sazio's reluctance to spend money on marketing -- the Argos should have capitalized on their victory but instead went silent.

Then there was Blue Jays Mania which hit big time in 1985, revolving commissioners after Jake Gaudaur, a substantial drop in league revenues with the expiration of the 1984-86 TV contract, the Alouettes folding on the eve of the '87 season, financial troubles with the Riders and Stamps, the extended ineptness of Ottawa (twice), mixed fortunes with U.S. expansion, the change in perception that the Dome was built for the Jays rather than the Argos, the Jays contending every year and then winning it all twice, shifting media coverage, rapid growth of NFL TV contracts, endless speculation of NFL expansion to Toronto, the coming of the Raptors, the transformation of the Leafs from a small-time operation to a huge corporation, a clear shift in the strength of the CFL from East to West.

It goes on and on.