Kickstarter campaign: New Toronto Argonauts Stadium

[Acadicus]

Hello everyone,
It’s time to start a Kickstarter campaign to build a new stadium in Toronto for the Argonauts. I won’t re-hash all the reasons why a new stadium is a good idea because let’s face it; everyone on here already knows that a new stadium would solve the majority of the problems facing the Argonauts at this time. I think the bottom line is that building a new stadium in Toronto for the Argonauts is a high risk business venture with zero incentive for any prospective owner (especially for the current one). So, if millionaires won’t take the risk, I say we the fans should take the risk. Furthermore, this is a cause that will motivate all Canadians, not just Torontonians, to invest. A healthy CFL franchise in Toronto equates to a healthy CFL. Think it can’t be done? In 1996 the “Save the Winnipeg Jets” campaign raised $13 million dollars for a new arena. They fell short but they also had a limited time line and most donations came from Manitoba. Imagine what we could do from coast to coast to coast. So let’s get down to business on what we need to get started.

1. We need to come to an agreement on cost. I have seen numbers thrown around between $100 million dollars to $130 million dollars. We have to take into account that 5% of the total money raised would go back to Kickstarter. Also, we may only need to meet the league / the club half way. If we raised $50 million dollars, there is a good chance that the league or the club could find the rest of the money. So, to recap, #1 is cost.

2. We need to figure out who the beneficiary of the money will be. One sticky point with all of this is the following regulation from Kickstarter: “Charity and investment are not permitted on Kickstarter. Projects can’t promise to donate funds raised to a charity or cause, and they can’t offer financial incentives like equity or repayment.” I realise that the Argonauts are not a charity; however, since the plan is to hand over the money to some entity such as the City, League or the team, Kickstarter may think of this as a charity. I will ask Kickstarter for some guidance on this question. In the meantime if anyone is a lawyer or has some ideas, please share.

3. We need a front-person and that is not me. We need someone who lives in Toronto who can coordinate this effort (I live in Ottawa). Here are Kickstarter’s requirements for Canadian “Creators”:
—You are 18 years of age or older.*
—You are a permanent resident in Canada either creating a project in your own name or on behalf of a legal entity with a Business Number.
—You have a Canadian address, Canadian bank account, and government-issued ID (driver’s license or passport).
—You have a major credit card.
Going back to point #2, we may need someone from the Argos to front this effort. It all depends if Kickstarter will allow us to hand the money over. Or perhaps, we need a commitment from the team that if we raise a certain amount, they will in turn build a stadium. Once again, I will check with Kickstarter and report back.

I think that’s it for now. We will need to check more boxes before officially launching the campaign but I think the above three requirements are the most important for now. If you doubt that this could ever work, please refer back to my 1996 reference (Reference: http://curtiswalker.com/jets/savejets.aspx). Manitoba raised $13 million on its own in a failed attempt to build a new arena for Winnipeg. Imagine what we could do with the whole country behind us. If we raised just $30 million, I believe the CFL would find a way to make the stadium a reality.

[Neely2005]

This is an interesting idea, even if it doesn't work it may get some media attention and could expedite the move to BMO Field.

[shayman]

Kickstarter's most successful project EVER, the Pebble watch, raised $10,266,845. https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded
You're going to raise five to ten times that?

I backed the Pebble project. I got a watch for my investment. What are you proposing backers of this project get?

(And I admire your enthusiasm and I know your heart is in the right place.)

[paulwoods13]

Kickstarter's most successful project EVER, the Pebble watch, raised $10,266,845. https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded
You're going to raise five to ten times that?

This is not the first thread where this idea has been raised. As I posted in another thread on the same subject, we actually need about $200M for a good-quality stadium -- certainly way more than $100M -- so it's more like 20 times the greatest Kickstarter project ever.

"If we raised $50 million dollars, there is a good chance that the league or the club could find the rest of the money" is naught but a dream on a lot of different levels.

[Acadicus]

Kickstarter's most successful project EVER, the Pebble watch, raised $10,266,845. https://www.kickstarter.com/discover/most-funded
You're going to raise five to ten times that?

I backed the Pebble project. I got a watch for my investment. What are you proposing backers of this project get?

(And I admire your enthusiasm and I know your heart is in the right place.)

I appreciate your reply shayman. There is no doubt that it would be a tall order to match the Pebble Watch fundraiser; however, I believe that if we did match it at 10 million it would expedite either the move to BMO or talk of an actual stand-alone stadium. If we made it to 50 million then the team / league would probably cover the other half.

As for return on investment, the team would have to get involved somehow. There are plenty of Kickstarter campaigns where you get nothing back; however, I think I understand your point. For something this big, some sort of incentive would be nice. Perhaps if we got the ball rolling to start, the team could get involved and offer tickets or perks in the new stadium. Regardless, this is a strike against the idea.

Most of all, my motivation is to respond to the negative press surrounding this issue. I want us to prove that this team and league matters. I understand why investors are hesitant to spend money on this team, so let's prove to them that it is worth investing. If we get 10,000 people to give a $1, it would at least raise some eyebrows and sponsors would have to take notice.

I am still waiting for Kickstarter to respond to my queries regarding this project. There's a chance that they won't approve it. I will post their response here the moment I get it.

[shayman]

Most of all, my motivation is to respond to the negative press surrounding this issue.... If we get 10,000 people to give a $1, it would at least raise some eyebrows and sponsors would have to take notice.

"CFL fan effort to raise $100,000,000 falls far short, raises only $10,000". Unfortunately, that'd probably be the press you'd get.

The sad thing is that we all blew it. Multiple opportunities in the past 25 years to get something built came and went. Taxpayers built a glorious modern stadium to host both the Jays and Argos, and somehow the Jays wound up owning it, and the Argos became mere nuisance tenants. The Pan Am Games and various soccer tournaments will breeze through town with construction funding available - and the Ticats and TFC benefit with new buildings, but not the Argos. An ideal plan to renovate Varsity was killed by NIMBY neighbours and U of T getting cold feet. York was excited to host the Argos until the direction changed. Again and again this keeps happening.

Moving to BMO is, I fear, our last chance.

[T-Bone]

Like shayman, I admire your enthusiasm but unfortunately I don't think this will work. We don't even have LaVar Burton to help us out. Kidding aside, those of us who have purchased season tickets, bought merchandise, etc. have done our part. We really shouldn't have to chip in to buy a new stadium as well. It's not our place, as ultimately the Argos are a for profit business. Just my opinion.

[Invader]

Partial community ownership could be an option in Toronto. The league could hold 33%, TSN 33% and the community 34%, for example. The league could also create a "Revenue Equalization Fund", which would cover 50% of team operating losses over $2 million, for example.

The new Argos stadium could be done fairly cheaply, like BMO which cost $63 million seven years ago. All the Argos really need are two 12,500-seat grandstands beside a grass field. If you want to get fancy with private suites and more amenities, look at Hamilton's THF for $120 million. With 33,500-seats and a roof, Winnipeg's IGF came in at $200 million. Regina is adding more bells and whistles in their $280 million stadium.

I'd lean towards a modest but classy stadium for the Argos, like a deluxe BMO with 28,000-seats for $80 million. Then add end-zone seating and more amenities as warranted.

Have a suburban community like Vaughn or Markham donate the land as part of a stadium/retail/residential development, which could secure federal infrastructure investment.

After RC becomes a baseball-only facility in 2018 and with BMO being soccer-only, there will be no football stadium in Canada's largest city, which was essentially birthplace of football in North America. Pity.

[paulwoods13]

Sure, a community will donate the land, which will secure federal money, and an adequate stadium will be built for "just" $80 million. Easy as pie all around.

[argonaut11xx]

UM....im sure Senator Braley, could somehow get a piece of downsview, and unlike most build something like this as a start...and on the downsview site there could be tailgating.

(Empire)
The venue was constructed by Nussli Group in three months, cost $14.4 million and opened on June 15, 2010. The venue featured 20,500 roofed bucket seats—with the remaining 7,000 being benches—twelve luxury suites, a press room, flood lighting and a FieldTurfartificial turf.

[argolio]

Why bring up Empire? A temporary stadium does us no good.

And I doubt Braley wants anything more out of the Argos other than a sale agreement that satisfies him.

[argonaut11xx]

Why bring up Empire? A temporary stadium does us no good.

And I doubt Braley wants anything more out of the Argos other than a sale agreement that satisfies him.

At this point i really think all options should be looked at...in my opinion the situation is not as rosy as some may think..thats all

[shayman]

UM....im sure Senator Braley, could somehow get a piece of downsview

fyi - he's not a senator any more. he resigned in November.

[argolio]

Pretty sure most of us don't think it's anywhere close to rosy.

Building a temporary stadium would be fine if there was a definite plan for permanent one.

[Invader]

UM....im sure Senator Braley, could somehow get a piece of downsview, and unlike most build something like this as a start...and on the downsview site there could be tailgating.

(Empire)
The venue was constructed by Nussli Group in three months, cost $14.4 million and opened on June 15, 2010. The venue featured 20,500 roofed bucket seats—with the remaining 7,000 being benches—twelve luxury suites, a press room, flood lighting and a FieldTurfartificial turf.

Nussli Group said they could make the grandstands permanent with a reinforced-concrete foundation, rather than the concrete blocks they used. I would also recommend a wider bucket seat, more in tune with average Canadian fan base.

So a 27,500-seat stadium can be built cost-effectively, especially when pesky politicians and unions are not involved.

I believe the $14.4 million for Empire Field was the projected cost, but they ended up not being able to use the old BC Place turf as planned, so the B.C. gov't bought brand new turf (then bequeathed Empire Field sans the temporary grandstands to the community.) Empire's video screen was also a BC Place throwaway. After doing $70 million in upgrades for the 2010 Olympics, the province spent another $565 million renovating BC Place for the Lions and Whitecaps, including the 2nd biggest HDTV system in North America and a retractable roof (as Lions fans complained it was too hot in dome in the summer).

[paulwoods13]

I've posted this before -- I went to a game at Empire Field. Fully half of the seats were BEHIND the goal-lines. That's not acceptable for anything other than a temporary situation.

[1argoholic]

Not sure what Braley is doing. Not sure if it's been posted and I can't totally know if this is true or not but I had heard that Braley wanted $10 million for the team and the proceeds from all TO Grey Cups in perpetuity. This could be part of the reason that the MLSE deal fell through. Well no crap if this is how it went down. Greedy bastard.

Should The Argonauts end up folding I'd be done with professional sports. I'd be crushed and looking for other ways to enjoy my life.

[gilthethrill]

Not sure what Braley is doing. Not sure if it's been posted and I can't totally know if this is true or not but I had heard that Braley wanted $10 million for the team and the proceeds from all TO Grey Cups in perpetuity. This could be part of the reason that the MLSE deal fell through. Well no crap if this is how it went down. Greedy bastard.

Should The Argonauts end up folding I'd be done with professional sports. I'd be crushed and looking for other ways to enjoy my life.

I think I would do the same thing if that were to happen..

[Mulder]

I've posted this before -- I went to a game at Empire Field. Fully half of the seats were BEHIND the goal-lines. That's not acceptable for anything other than a temporary situation.

And in the Rogers Centre current configuration for Argo games. There is 8,000-10,000 seats behind the endzone line Maybe even more.

[T-Bone]

I've posted this before -- I went to a game at Empire Field. Fully half of the seats were BEHIND the goal-lines. That's not acceptable for anything other than a temporary situation.

I never went but from what I understand there was also porta potties instead of washrooms and food trucks instead of concession stands. Which is totally understandable and fine for a temporary facility.