Does Cohon have the cojones to stand up to Braley?

[Argocister]

You have to prove to me Madanis tweets are worth anything. I know I am the supreme optimist but there have been other tweets of Madanis on various topics which are clearly conjecture and proved to be erroneous many times.
So, I take his comments with less than a grain of salt ..... Especially nice Sportsnet/Rogers helps pay his bills.

Just keep up the negative comments like this and you can dig your own grave ..... I'm not falling for it no matter how rosy my glasses are.

The Argos are a team that have talent and fans .... And I'm cheering for them

[paulwoods13]

Whether or not anyone trusts Madani is not the point. His tweets are only the beginning. The media pressure around this issue is going to intensify the longer there is no resolution, especially if crowds remain small. The the team needs a new owner and a new home, and until something is done about both of these needs, it is going to continue to appear to be sinking towards the bitter end. Get these issues resolved, and there is a rosy future. Leave them unsolved while attendance dwindles, and the rosy future starts to look darker.

[AngeloV]

Whether or not anyone trusts Madani is not the point. His tweets are only the beginning. The media pressure around this issue is going to intensify the longer there is no resolution, especially if crowds remain small. The the team needs a new owner and a new home, and until something is done about both of these needs, it is going to continue to appear to be sinking towards the bitter end. Get these issues resolved, and there is a rosy future. Leave them unsolved while attendance dwindles, and the rosy future starts to look darker.

Truth be told, I hope the media attention does intensify. It may be the kick in the pants the league and Braley need to realize there needs to be something done.

[Argo57]

Whether or not anyone trusts Madani is not the point. His tweets are only the beginning. The media pressure around this issue is going to intensify the longer there is no resolution, especially if crowds remain small. The the team needs a new owner and a new home, and until something is done about both of these needs, it is going to continue to appear to be sinking towards the bitter end. Get these issues resolved, and there is a rosy future. Leave them unsolved while attendance dwindles, and the rosy future starts to look darker.

The Argonauts have been treated unfairly by the Toronto media for many years to say the least but sometimes this organization is its own worst enemy, as Angelo touched on blast away and all involved may get the message to put an end to this fiasco!!

[Argo]

The Argonauts have been treated unfairly by the Toronto media for many years to say the least but sometimes this organization is its own worst enemy, as Angelo touched on blast away and all involved may get the message to put an end to this fiasco!!

Truly. If this deflating while in limbo situation somehow drags on through this season or (perish the thought) beyond, the Argos may be, or may as well be, toast. I say this as someone who has seen a significant amount of Toronto Argonauts woe over decades past.

[ArgoRedneck]

And if something isn't done soon to let everyone know what's going to happen to resolve this situation, we will quickly be into a death watch in the media. Madani's tweets, and Lankof's story in the Sun last week, are just the forerunners. Wait until we draw another crowd of 6,000 on a Tuesday night, and then try to sell a second home game five days later (against two teams that are historically bad draws in Toronto). Then the media frenzy will be in full swing, and sadly it will be justified because the organization might very well be in (as Madani put it) "bankruptcy mode."

Yeap!!!

Should we start a over under on attendance?

If anyone wants to storm the head office on game day around 2ish let me know. Its right beside team sponsor Shoeless Joe's. What are they going to do?? Not listen to fans and beat us up?

[Mulder]

FWIW, here are Arash Madani's tweets from last night:

If you're a #BCLions fan, be grateful for the late Bob Ackles. He was the one who saved the #CFL in Vancouver. Waterboys, revival, all him.

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the #CFL East and West divisions?

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

David Braley has enjoyed hosting three Grey Cup's in four years. How much of the financial windfall has gone back to improve his teams? #CFL

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

This isn't on Milanovich or Barker. This is on Mr. Braley, Mr. Rudge and Mr. Bedford. So, incredibly shameful. Paging Mr. Cohon. #CFL #Argos

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

Five skilled guys down on offense. Business side of the front office regressed into bankruptcy mode. And the #Argos are 1-4. #CFL #40Boats

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

Makes me wonder if Beth W's departure was based on finances or on something else (like maybe insisting to her bosses that reporting on this situation is only going to get uglier if something isn't done soon to clarify the team's future). Either scenario is disturbing.

All Arash is a shit disturber. Take when he said with a grain of salt.

Where were these comments in 2012? With BC winning the division & Toronto winning the Grey Cup? 2013 with Toronto Winning the division and BC going to the playoffs?

Suddenly they show up when both teams are doing poor. Yeah. One just has to look at Arash's employer to find the agenda.

[paulwoods13]

Where were these comments in 2012? With BC winning the division & Toronto winning the Grey Cup? 2013 with Toronto Winning the division and BC going to the playoffs?

Suddenly they show up when both teams are doing poor. Yeah. One just has to look at Arash's employer to find the agenda.

First of all, Madani's tweets last night are not about the Lions' current state. He's saying (as many others have said) that it was not David Braley who saved the Lions franchise as much as it was the guy he hired, Bob Ackles -- but he is saying it as context for the current Argo off-field woes, not as a comment on the current state of the Lions. The Lions' finances are irrelevant to this discussion.

In 2012 and 2013, the Argos were not facing eviction from their stadium, the owner hadn't stopped spending money (at least to the current extent) and the team hadn't just let go a front-office member who was largely responsible for ensuring media relations were positive in the face of great pressure among elements of the media to ignore or downgrade the CFL.

I'm not saying Madani is the definitive source of CFL info, and of course he works for Rogers. But anyone who thinks he's making stuff up simply to suit the Rogers agenda is ignoring the evidence of empty stands, low spending, a CEO who appears not to know the organization's plan to solve its ownership and stadium crisis, and a fan base whose most rabid members are becoming increasingly concerned about the future of the franchise.

[ArgoRedneck]

All Arash is a shit disturber. Take when he said with a grain of salt.

Where were these comments in 2012? With BC winning the division & Toronto winning the Grey Cup? 2013 with Toronto Winning the division and BC going to the playoffs?

Suddenly they show up when both teams are doing poor. Yeah. One just has to look at Arash's employer to find the agenda.

And all the media is to fault for not saying anything about Blackberry and Nortel 2 years before they tanked??? Come on man. A Yes or No response. Are the Argos in trouble off the field? Yes or No. Don't let the media decide for you.

[ArgoZ]

It is funny how things can change in such a short time. We were all on top of the world as recently as November of 2012 and the Argos, for one week at least, were the talk of Toronto. Even at the end of last season, I, and I believe others on here, felt very positive about the future of this team. At that point - November of 2013 - it looked like the team would soon be sold to MLSE, the team would move into a renovated BMO Field, and its future very much solidified. I still believe that these three things will happen but they really should have happened months ago. As a result, this is a franchise that seems to be completely in limbo.

I was going to post the exact thought. It seems like yesterday, the Argos were the toast of the town. 50 000 fans spilling onto front street after a Grey Cup win. It was so awesome! A lot of my friends and colleges were talking Argos to me because they knew I liked them. Great parade turnout, I could not believe how positive the city was. I was so happy how things have turned around, there was not a care to be had, everything was peachy.

Two short year later and we are talking deathbed again! WTF happened? It seems like a little big of negativity and things start to snowball for the worse, including the play on the field. A positive change to a new stadium hopefully will start a trend of increased sales, profile and winning ways again.

[Argo57]

What happened after the 2012 Grey Cup victory and into that off season was exactly nothing. The team went silent and once again failed to capitalize on the buzz and good feelings after that dream season, missing an opportunity to put together some creative ticket packages and incentives to get people to the games, basically no merchandizing nothing, no effort!!
Always been my favorite team but they are infuriating the way they conduct themselves, act small time and you will be treated as such!

[Mulder]

First of all, Madani's tweets last night are not about the Lions' current state. He's saying (as many others have said) that it was not David Braley who saved the Lions franchise as much as it was the guy he hired, Bob Ackles -- but he is saying it as context for the current Argo off-field woes, not as a comment on the current state of the Lions. The Lions' finances are irrelevant to this discussion.

In 2012 and 2013, the Argos were not facing eviction from their stadium, the owner hadn't stopped spending money (at least to the current extent) and the team hadn't just let go a front-office member who was largely responsible for ensuring media relations were positive in the face of great pressure among elements of the media to ignore or downgrade the CFL.

I'm not saying Madani is the definitive source of CFL info, and of course he works for Rogers. But anyone who thinks he's making stuff up simply to suit the Rogers agenda is ignoring the evidence of empty stands, low spending, a CEO who appears not to know the organization's plan to solve its ownership and stadium crisis, and a fan base whose most rabid members are becoming increasingly concerned about the future of the franchise.

Nothing about the Lions paul? I suggest you go back and read your own post posting his tweets.

Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the #CFL East and West divisions?

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

He's directly attributing Braley owning B.C & the Argos as the reason why those teams are in last place in the division. Which is no difference than the previous 4 years when he owned both teams. And I was commenting as to the on field performance and not the off field issues.

[rdavies]

Bobby Ackles has been gone for 6 years now. That's plenty of time to make accurate before and after comparisions.

[paulwoods13]

Nothing about the Lions paul? I suggest you go back and read your own post posting his tweets.

Coincidence that both Braley teams are in last place in each of the #CFL East and West divisions?

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

He's directly attributing Braley owning B.C & the Argos as the reason why those teams are in last place in the division. Which is no difference than the previous 4 years when he owned both teams. And I was commenting as to the on field performance and not the off field issues.

That's fine, but who gives a damn about the Lions? I care about how the Argos are being run, and right now it appears they are being run into the ground.

Here's what really matters in Madani's tweets:

Five skilled guys down on offense. Business side of the front office regressed into bankruptcy mode. And the #Argos are 1-4. #CFL #40Boats

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

This isn't on Milanovich or Barker. This is on Mr. Braley, Mr. Rudge and Mr. Bedford. So, incredibly shameful. Paging Mr. Cohon. #CFL #Argos

— Arash Madani (@ArashMadani) July 27, 2014

Everything else is secondary to the suggestion that the team is being operated in bankruptcy mode, and that it is affecting the football operation. People are free to believe he is making that up because he is a Rogers employee. IMO the evidence suggests that there is truth in what he wrote.

[Argocister]

.......... IMO the evidence suggests that there is truth in what he wrote.

Mmmmmm..... Coming from a science background, and I may just be totally naive..... But I do wonder what you consider as evidence. .... That they let go a long time employee? That Rudge says " I can't speak for Mr.Braley?" . That MLSE has postponed when the the BMO stadium will be ready for the Argos? I can think of many practical answers that are business related that responds to all of those events.
I'm sorry, but to me this is the grapevine or gossip feeding on its own, and TO loves its drama. Give me football, not drama thanks.

[Invader]

Actually the Lions went through a couple decades of decline on and off the field, going bankrupt in 1996. Mr. Braley bought the team out of receivership in 1997, and the Lions have made the playoffs every year since. The Lions have played in the Division Final or Grey Cup, eight of the last ten seasons.

I doubt a sane person would regard the Lions as a losing franchise, despite not having their starting QB this season (who happens to be the highest paid player in the league)...unless you were a Rogers employee who gets paid to downgrade on the competition?

Pretty much the same thing with the Argos. Don't get drawn into this negative media spin. They're just trying to pull your chain, attacking the bedrock foundations of the CFL and their loyal fans. For what purpose, only they can say. But as fans all you can do is enjoy the games and tell your friends and neighbours, "there are plenty of good seats still available!"

[paulwoods13]

Some folks apparently want to put their heads in the sand and fingers in their ears and convince themselves everything is just fine. (Some of these same folks were also adamant that the team had 11,000 season ticket holders.)

I see pitifully small crowds, an organization whose CEO appears to be out of touch with the owner about the somewhat important matters of whether or not the team will be sold and where it will play in three seasons, and statements by MLSE that it is renovating BMO without accommodating a CFL field, and I conclude that there is trouble afoot. If that makes me a victim of negative media spin or a drama queen, so be it.

[Argocister]

Some folks apparently want to put their heads in the sand and fingers in their ears and convince themselves everything is just fine. (Some of these same folks were also adamant that the team had 11,000 season ticket holders.)

I can only respond personally, and I know you didn't mean just me, ....... I may be naive, my head is not in the sand, but life is not an easy ride and neither is Argos road and easy one in TO.... But I do believe they will progress and I want to give opinion to the other side of the coin. I also feel if all that is written on this forum is supporting negative comments in the media, then one is succumbing to authors opinion and interpretation of various comments.not good for the persona of the Argos

I see pitifully small crowds,
....... I do too, and admit that is a hurdle we need to overcome ...

....an organization whose CEO appears to be out of touch with the owner about the somewhat important matters of whether or not the team will be sold ......

.. To me, I see a CEO that has done a job. I remember Rudge said one of his first jobs was to find a buyer for the Argos. I think he has done that with building a relationship with MLSE. Now it is up to Braley to finish off any
negotiations. I think his MO of stating " I can't talk for Mr Braley" is proper. He can't talk for him and Braley has to finish the deal. ......
..and where it will play in three seasons, and statements by MLSE that it is renovating BMO without accommodating a CFL field, .....

.. MLSE states that they are still planning on making BMO compatible for the Argos. What I take from this is, they need an extra 30million to accomodate the Argos. So first is try and get 10 from each level of government. If not then let's buy time for the rest. If the Pan Am games were not on, I would suspect they wouldn't start the renovations until they had secured the monies first.

........ and I conclude that there is trouble afoot. ..... And I conclude that there are bumps in the road......

..If that makes me a victim of negative media spin or a drama queen,....

....victim of negative media spin , ..... Maybe..... But not a drama queen, I met you once to buy your book and don't think that suits you ....it's more the TO sports media and their tendency towards drama ....... so be it.

And just in case you thought I was long winded, because I replied within the quote, the forum deemed my message too short. Ha!

[Wobbler]

Mmmmmm..... Coming from a science background, and I may just be totally naive..... But I do wonder what you consider as evidence. .... That they let go a long time employee? That Rudge says " I can't speak for Mr.Braley?" . That MLSE has postponed when the the BMO stadium will be ready for the Argos? I can think of many practical answers that are business related that responds to all of those events.
I'm sorry, but to me this is the grapevine or gossip feeding on its own, and TO loves its drama. Give me football, not drama thanks.

Are you arguing that there is no problem, or that you don't care and would prefer to just watch the game? If it's the latter then that's fine of course.

If it's the former, then as a fellow scientist I question your interpretation. There are plenty of data suggesting a serious and growing organizational problem. It has been stated (by people familiar with team finances, like the commissioner) that the team has been losing money for years. Our owner has expressed limited interest in the team and consistent rumors indicate that he wants to sell soon. The Argonauts don't have a playing facility for 2018+, and have limited options. Now, we have a dramatic drop in attendance and solid evidence (Madani is a good source, and the staff cuts are on the public record) that front office expenses are being cut, perhaps to offset the lost gate revenue. On top of all that the team is terrible right now, so attendance is likely to *stay* low. I don't agree with the "shame on Braley" nonsense and to call it a crisis would be premature, but we've got some serious problems.

[Argocister]

Are you arguing that there is no problem, or that you don't care and would prefer to just watch the game? If it's the latter then that's fine of course.

I never said there was no problem .... I come on this site to learn more and discuss football. I don't think it is good on the forum to only engulf the negative aspects of the team. If you read the reply I made above you will see that I believe it is the rough road that the argos are on. I prefer more threads dedicated to the game and the players . I do not live in TO so I don't get to read all the articles in the local papers etc about the players and the game, but it seems we sometimes focus more on the ' drama' I believe the organization itself can influence the game.

If it's the former, then as a fellow scientist I question your interpretation. There are plenty of data suggesting a serious and growing organizational problem.

...... First off here, I have only been a major fan for the last 10 years or so.so in my limited involvement with the Argos, they have been on this losing money streak for all my time with the team. It is scary, but it seems as we are making some progress. It is a difficult market, not so much for gaining fans but for getting progress. We don't have the big money guys behind us... They want NFL.

It has been stated (by people familiar with team finances, like the commissioner) that the team has been losing money for years. Our owner has expressed limited interest in the team and consistent rumors indicate that he wants to sell soon.

..... That was Braleys intent all along. Buy the Argos save them for awhile but find a stable owner so that they don't have to go through the turnstile. Being around only the last number of years, that's fine and let's get onto the next stage. I don't have the history that many have on here, but right now that's life.

The Argonauts don't have a playing facility for 2018+, and have limited options. Now, we have a dramatic drop in attendance and solid evidence

See above reply to Paul

(Madani is a good source, ...... I have not been convinced that he is a good source.....I have my reasons ....

and the staff cuts are on the public record) that front office expenses are being cut,
...so I have heard about a staff member being cut .....has there been more? ....

perhaps to offset the lost gate revenue. ......now that's conjecture

On top of all that the team is terrible right now, so attendance is likely to *stay* low. I don't agree with the "shame on Braley" nonsense and to call it a crisis would be premature, but we've got some serious problems.

True about the team. And I hope the young receivers will click in sooner than later.

Braley is probably getting anxious to get the CFL stable. Braley is not getting any younger,and I'm sure he would like this stuff wrapped up so others don't have to do it for him. That would be worse.
He has helped out the Ticats....and after this stadium fiasco, they should be good. The Caretaker seems to have a good handle on the team and interest.
The Lions are relatively stable .... I think.
The Argos need to get over these hurdles.....Braley is just the money guy. To me he isn't interested in management. So I also don't go for the Shame on Braley comments.

I'm leaving this thread alone for awhile. As I mentioned before I'm more interested in football. I do believe a strong organization is needed but I also believe we are trekking there slowly and hopefully surely.

I'm excited to check out the new practice facility.....and to see how Scotty revamps the team. He's learning too... He had a nice ride up with Tressman prior to coming here.( I think there should be a Star Trek cartoon with Scott Milanovich being Scotty .... Good receiver? Beam him up Scotty)