Why has Argonauts Home Game Attendance declined so much in 1 year? (2013-2014)

[Neely2005]

I know that it's only been 2 home games so far but the drop in attendance from 2013 is pretty alarming. Using the attendance figures from www.argonauts.ca you can see a drop of in the thousands. And this years schedule is much better than last years schedule. All of our games are on Friday, Saturday or Sunday except for one Tuesday game and one Thursday game which was the preseason game.

Also does anyone know if the Argonauts us 'Paid Attendance' or 'Actual Attendance' for their attendance figures? There were significantly less people there yesterday compared to the home opener against Saskatchewan but the attendance figures don't reflect that so I'm thinking that the Argonauts must use 'Paid Attendance' for their figures.


2013

Preseason: 6,204 (Varsity Stadium)

Game 1: 29,852
Game 2: 18,211
Game 3: 20,064
Game 4: 19,656
Game 5: 21,157
Game 6: 18,863
Game 7: 28,467
Game 8: 18,478
Game 9: 22,589

Playoff Game: 35,418

Average Rogers Centre Attendance: 23,276

Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance: 21,926

http://argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2013/7


2014

Preseason: 5,216 (Varsity Stadium)

Game 1: 17,758
Game 2: 16,102
Game 3: 18,106
Game 4: 18,283
Game 5: 16,276
Game 6: 17,811
Game 7: 16,834
Game 8: 19,258
Game 9: 19,687

Playoff Game: N/A

Average Rogers Centre Attendance: 17,791

Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance: 17,791

http://argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2014/7

2015

Preseason: 5,000 (Varsity Stadium)

Game 1: 20,642
Game 2: 14,748
Game 3: 17,694

http://www.argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2015/7


* The Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance has decreased by 4,135 from 2013 to 2014.

[Argo57]

I know that it's only been 2 home games so far but the drop in attendance from 2013 is pretty alarming. Using the attendance figures from www.argonauts.ca you can see a drop of in the thousands. And this years schedule is much better than last years schedule. All of our games are on Friday, Saturday or Sunday except for one Tuesday game and one Thursday game which was the preseason game.

Also does anyone know if the Argonauts us 'Paid Attendance' or 'Actual Attendance' for their attendance figures? There were significantly less people there yesterday compared to the home opener against Saskatchewan but the attendance figures don't reflect that so I'm thinking that the Argonauts must use 'Paid Attendance' for their figures.


2013

Preseason: 6,204 (Varsity Stadium)

Game 1: 29,852
Game 2: 18,211
Game 3: 20,064
Game 4: 19,656
Game 5: 21,157
Game 6: 18,863
Game 7: 28,467
Game 8: 18,478
Game 9: 22,589

Playoff Game: 35,418

Average Rogers Centre Attendance: 23,276

Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance: 21,926

http://argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2013/7


2014

Preseason: 5,216 (Varsity Stadium)

Game 1: 17,758
Game 2: 16,102
Game 3:
Game 4:
Game 5:
Game 6:
Game 7:
Game 8:
Game 9:

Playoff Game:

Average Rogers Centre Attendance:

Average Regular Season Rogers Centre Attendance:

http://argonauts.ca/schedule/year/2014/7



* I will update the attendance throughout the season.

Don't forget Game#1 last season was against Hamilton and their legion of fans.

[Neely2005]

Don't forget Game#1 last season was against Hamilton and their legion of fans.

True but I don't think that there were 12,000+ Ticat fans there.

[Argo57]

True but I don't think that there were 12,000+ Ticat fans there.

You sure about that??
Probably not far off

[ArgoRedneck]

Don't worry people, when the Argos relocate 5 minutes away the people of Toronto will become Argo fans, and those that already are will stop watching the great TSN broadcast and come out to the games. Who would not want to be at a wild tailgate party that has cool beer at $10. Much better then the team sponsor Shoeless Joe's with ice cold draft at $7 tables, chairs for all and 15% off food for ST holders. #DONileRiver

[Gill The Thrill]

Don't worry people, when the Argos relocate 5 minutes away the people of Toronto will become Argo fans, and those that already are will stop watching the great TSN broadcast and come out to the games. Who would not want to be at a wild tailgate party that has cool beer at $10. Much better then the team sponsor Shoeless Joe's with ice cold draft at $7 tables, chairs for all and 15% off food for ST holders. #DONileRiver

My first impression reading your post is that your being sarcastic, but looking over it again, I'm starting to think you're not being sarcastic...that's the thing with messageboards, we can't really measure the tone of each message. The atmosphere would be better than the dome and also very nostalgic for those who went to games at the EX before 1989 so I could imagine decent looking attendance with numbers in the low 20,000's compared to the half empty cavernous dome, which is what we have now with even 25,000 there. The CNE parking lots would also make for a better pre game tailgate feel even though you could bet security would be all over the place in our wonderful Nanny state province of Ontario..Of course that's because they care about our health and has nothing to do with making sure that we pay full price at their concessions for all the beer fans may consume...now I'm being sarcastic.

[Neely2005]

You sure about that??
Probably not far off

For the playoff game yes, for the regular season game no I don't think so.

[Qman]

The atmosphere in the dome sucks ... that why everyone has migrated to watching on TV

Braley stopped investing in the team off the field when he started discussions with MLSE.

[Argo57]

For the playoff game yes, for the regular season game no I don't think so.

Ok
I stand corrected

[Gill The Thrill]

The Argos should thank the Hamilton fans for those numbers last season. The Eastern Final was hard to take but they gave the place atmosphere.

The Argos and the CFL have better get out to the schools, and I mean elementary schools to promote flag football and touch football...if you wait til high school, it's already too late...they'll be curious about football but will be coming to football practice in their Raptors, Blue Jays, and TFC jerseys...and you've lost them.

For godsakes, TFC is regarded as a big deal because of one player (Dafoe)...they have an American World cup player in Bradley who was terrible at the tournament and a goalie who could not stop a beachball for Brazil in their last 2 games. Saw a second of their game on TV on Sportsnet 360 and there was probably still less there than at the Argo game...so it's not all gloom and doom.

[ArgoZ]

The Argos should thank the Hamilton fans for those numbers last season. The Eastern Final was hard to take but they gave the place atmosphere.

The Argos and the CFL have better get out to the schools, and I mean elementary schools to promote flag football and touch football...if you wait til high school, it's already too late...they'll be curious about football but will be coming to football practice in their Raptors, Blue Jays, and TFC jerseys...and you've lost them.

For godsakes, TFC is regarded as a big deal because of one player (Dafoe)...they have an American World cup player in Bradley who was terrible at the tournament and a goalie who could not stop a beachball for Brazil in their last 2 games. Saw a second of their game on TV on Sportsnet 360 and there was probably still less there than at the Argo game...so it's not all gloom and doom.

I don't see how trashing another franchise, it's players and fans are going to help the situation. Or is it just sour grapes there was more attending the TFC game and behaving like this is therapy that helps your mind?

I won't let someone attempt to misinform about the Argonauts and conversely I will call anyone out who incorrectly makes claims against our other sports franchises. Defoe is a big deal, kind of like when the Argos signed Ricky Williams. Bradley was criticized for some giveaways in the cup, but he was far from terrible. He is a great talent and TFC, as would any MLS team, are proud to have him control the midfield. I don't see how anyone could blame Cesar for the collapse of Brazil. The Germans seemed to be toying with the defense. He is a great goalie, who unfortunately will not be returning to TFC.

Now imagine if the venues were swapped for this weekends games? I'd imagine it would be a dull soccer game in a half empty dome, while the Argonauts in front of near sellout at BMO, were narrowly beaten by the Stamps as the crowd pushed them on to a close game. The Argonauts would be perceived as thriving, while people would question how TFC couldn't even fill the lower part of the dome after a fantastic World Cup. It's all perception. The negativity starts to snowball and attendance suffers.

[Argo57]

I don't see how trashing another franchise, it's players and fans are going to help the situation. Or is it just sour grapes there was more attending the TFC game and behaving like this is therapy that helps your mind?

I won't let someone attempt to misinform about the Argonauts and conversely I will call anyone out who incorrectly makes claims against our other sports franchises. Defoe is a big deal, kind of like when the Argos signed Ricky Williams. Bradley was criticized for some giveaways in the cup, but he was far from terrible. He is a great talent and TFC, as would any MLS team, are proud to have him control the midfield. I don't see how anyone could blame Cesar for the collapse of Brazil. The Germans seemed to be toying with the defense. He is a great goalie, who unfortunately will not be returning to TFC.

Now imagine if the venues were swapped for this weekends games? I'd imagine it would be a dull soccer game in a half empty dome, while the Argonauts in front of near sellout at BMO, were narrowly beaten by the Stamps as the crowd pushed them on to a close game. The Argonauts would be perceived as thriving, while people would question how TFC couldn't even fill the lower part of the dome after a fantastic World Cup. It's all perception. The negativity starts to snowball and attendance suffers.

One franchise is on the upswing one is not, hate to say it.
I think the fan demographic from what I observed yesterday is somewhat younger for F.C than the Argonauts as well.
Competition is stiff for fans sports dollars in T.O. Unfortunately looks like our team has thrown on the towel at this point.

[ArgoRavi]

One franchise is on the upswing one is not, hate to say it.
I think the fan demographic from what I observed yesterday is somewhat younger for F.C than the Argonauts as well.
Competition is stiff for fans sports dollars in T.O. Unfortunately looks like our team has thrown on the towel at this point.

Cohon's dream, which he divulged to Bob McCown a couple of weeks ago, seems to me to include the Argos tapping into the same demographic that FC has with a move to BMO Field. With MLSE's ownership and the cross-promotion opportunities, I believe that Cohon's dream can come to fruition.

[Neely2005]

Updated the OP with today's attendance.

[Neely2005]

I've updated my OP. The good news is that yesterdays crowd was bigger than any from last season.

[Gill The Thrill]

I don't see how trashing another franchise, it's players and fans are going to help the situation. Or is it just sour grapes there was more attending the TFC game and behaving like this is therapy that helps your mind?

I won't let someone attempt to misinform about the Argonauts and conversely I will call anyone out who incorrectly makes claims against our other sports franchises. Defoe is a big deal, kind of like when the Argos signed Ricky Williams. Bradley was criticized for some giveaways in the cup, but he was far from terrible. He is a great talent and TFC, as would any MLS team, are proud to have him control the midfield. I don't see how anyone could blame Cesar for the collapse of Brazil. The Germans seemed to be toying with the defense. He is a great goalie, who unfortunately will not be returning to TFC.

Now imagine if the venues were swapped for this weekends games? I'd imagine it would be a dull soccer game in a half empty dome, while the Argonauts in front of near sellout at BMO, were narrowly beaten by the Stamps as the crowd pushed them on to a close game. The Argonauts would be perceived as thriving, while people would question how TFC couldn't even fill the lower part of the dome after a fantastic World Cup. It's all perception. The negativity starts to snowball and attendance suffers.

How did the Ricky Williams signing workout for the Argos...oh yah, it didn't, so just because you sign a big name, it does not build a foundation for success. Dafoe is big because MLSE does what they always do to hide the fact they don't know what they're doing, they're sprinkling money around and telling the media, "look at us, we just threw this much money for this guy," They do the same with their hockey franchise (David Clarkson...anyone) even though they've been at that business for decades, so don't give me this misinforming line.

Trashing another franchise, it's players and fans must help the situation if you use TFC as an example, that's all I saw from their fansites when it came comments regarding the Argos moving to BMO. They make it seem as if they own the stadium even though it was specifically slated to be a multipurpose stadium suitable for soccer and football.

For the playoff game yes, for the regular season game no I don't think so.

Then why did the Argos get nowhere near 29,000 for another game...I was at that game and there were a ton of ticat fans, easily 10-12,000.

As for the playoff game, that was even worse. I think there were easily 17 -21,000 Ticat fans. It was practically their home game even though it was in Toronto.

[ArgoZ]

How did the Ricky Williams signing workout for the Argos...oh yah, it didn't, so just because you sign a big name, it does not build a foundation for success. Dafoe is big because MLSE does what they always do to hide the fact they don't know what they're doing, they're sprinkling money around and telling the media, "look at us, we just threw this much money for this guy," They do the same with their hockey franchise (David Clarkson...anyone) even though they've been at that business for decades, so don't give me this misinforming line.

Trashing another franchise, it's players and fans must help the situation if you use TFC as an example, that's all I saw from their fansites when it came comments regarding the Argos moving to BMO. They make it seem as if they own the stadium even though it was specifically slated to be a multipurpose stadium suitable for soccer and football.

I never said Williams worked out, but it's proof that the Argos are guilty of doing the same things that you dislike about TFC. Luckily for TFC, Defoe is performing so far. Your knowledge just confirmed you are all sour grapes. I understand your frustration and I am not defending some TFC fans, but no need to stoop to their level and don't get mad at me for calling you out on your bull.

[Will]

You raise an interesting point about starting to attract these kids in elementary school. IIRC, most of my friends had already formed their "pro-NFL/anti-CFL" sentiments by the time we had graduated to high school.

But, give credit where credit is due, the Toronto FC had reached the point where many of it's fans were getting upset about the inability of the team to take meaningful steps on the field. Heck, Vancouver and Montreal were able to qualify for the playoffs in their first couple of seasons in the league. MLSE went out in the off-season, signed these players and promoted the heck out of them.

[Gill The Thrill]

You raise an interesting point about starting to attract these kids in elementary school. IIRC, most of my friends had already formed their "pro-NFL/anti-CFL" sentiments by the time we had graduated to high school.

But, give credit where credit is due, the Toronto FC had reached the point where many of it's fans were getting upset about the inability of the team to take meaningful steps on the field. Heck, Vancouver and Montreal were able to qualify for the playoffs in their first couple of seasons in the league. MLSE went out in the off-season, signed these players and promoted the heck out of them.

Let's see them promote World Cup goalkeeper Julio Cesar...watch a goalkeeper who allowed 14 goals in a World Cup tournament. Watch him lead your team to an MLS championship, but being an MLSE property, they never use the term championship...it's watch him lead your team to a playoff spot.The guy could hardly jump off the ground to get those high shots and could not stand straight to stop shots that would have hit him....know Brazil had no chance when they got their keeper from TFC...bet the team takes a tumble but who cares.....The Argos got to get their act together....the defence and special teams coverage was terrible last night, and Ricky Ray can move the ball between the goal lines but not past it...that's the same problem they had in the East Final last year.

[Will]

Except Caesar was on loan from the Queen's Park Rangers and was expected to return after the World Cup so he isn't Toronto FC's problem.