How to Fix the Argos

[rdavies]

Imagine if you had a chance to sit with the Argo management and give your ideas on how to improve the franchise (off the field) and to raise its profile, popularity and hence profitability. What would you suggest to help this struggling franchise get back on the road to profitability. What would you say?

Here are the ground rules:
1 No negativity allowed, constructive comments only. We've heard all the negativity, it doesn't help.
No it's a lost cause comments.
2 No useless smart ass comments, be serious and think that someone from management might see and implement your ideas.
3 Keep your thoughts within the bounds of reality. Can we agree that maintaining a 25k attendance (break even/make money) for most CFL teams is a reasonable and realistic goal.
.................................................. ..............................................

Disclaimer: I'm am not familiar with the GTA market. Some ideas may apply and be successful here and some may not. I've just posted some of my generalities below to get people thinking.

There was a short time a few months back that I thought the Argos would be history in Toronto, and then I thought about and saw a few things.

There was the old standby of Montreal going to a smaller facility and renewing interest but I didn't know if that would translate or not and then I saw and heard some things that really gave me hope that Toronto can be turned around.

First, Montreal was in far worse shape than Toronto before it's resurrection. Different time and place but still shows a comeback is possible.

Watching the sold out crowd in Ottawa and seeing all those young people there was very encouraging. How did they come to attend that game? They would have had no history of live pro football and the ones old enough to have had the experience (last days of Riders and Renegades) likely had a bad experience. How did twenty years of bad experience override 100 years of good? How did Hunt and Co turn that around? It's was more than a stadium issue although Hunt had said that half of the bad experiences in the past revolved around the stadium.

While the stock thing to do would be to try to entice the stereotypical male 18-35 demo, Hunt and Co have families as a major target group. How can these lessons be applied to Toronto. Does the Toronto marketing plan or lack thereof need to be blown up and started from scratch almost like an expansion team? Also, although many (not all) aren't interested in the historical aspect how can that be re-perceived as a positive as are the old time NFL teams like the Packers and Bears.

Ottawa seems to have trotted out living legend Russ Jackson to most of their functions. Is there a better vibe than to associate the present team with a symbol of the team at its zenith. When you have a personality so revered, to the point of someone ignoring the Commissioner and the Prime Minister to shake his hand you really have something powerful at work.

Dave Naylor mentioned being a young sports reporter in Saskatchewan years ago and seeing mostly grey hair at the games. How did the Riders succeed in flipping their demo and and attracting a younger audience to the point of having scantily clad young people congregate in a hot tub near the endzone.

There's a large enough market in Toronto where this can succeed. I firmly believe each of the Raps, TFC and Argos have the same size core fanbase. It's time the Argos handled theirs better.

Another thing I find interesting is this forum, I don't know if it's the largest but I've just noticed something interesting. Many of the same posters post here but I noticed that the views of a thread are quite high and happen quite quickly. I post at the largest soccer message board in the country but its buildup is much, much slower. I think the people are out there, they just have to come out of the closet.

[1argoholic]

They firstly need to be sold. This means Cohan has to push Braley to get it done with MLSE if that is our only option. Right there MLSE would market the team which is lacking right now. The fans are out there you just have to give them a reason to get off the couch and down to games. Great marketing on a constant basis, year after year is needed. Not every Argo fan is a diehard. Toronto and Southern Ontario in general has millions of things that compete with CFL football. Living in the Kawartha's for the last year has blown my mind with all the festivals etc..etc. Too many interesting things to mention. Marketing is the key and there's a reason that every big store etc does it even though we all know they exist.

Also market to the the most ethnically diverse population in the world with photos of Argo players wearing clothing from certain countries. Captions could be in English and Polish as an example. It'll take some bright marketing mind to figure out which backgrounds to target and in which area of the city to run the ads in a tasteful way. Everyone likes to feel wanted or included. Toronto is the second largest Italian city in the world so I'd start there. Have Italian night once a year.

Really the sky's the limit as little to nothing has really ever been done by the organization. I think most fans on here could do a better job.

Yesterday alone we met a couple running a store in Coe Hill Ontario and two couples near Bon Echo Park on one of our discovering the area drives. We talked CFL football because I was wearing an Argo T and my wife a Stamps one. Everytime I wear Argo merch in the area someone says, Argos. The fans are everywhere you just need to convince them to get their butts in the seats.

[rdavies]

Toronto is the second largest Italian city in the world so I'd start there. Have Italian night once a year.

I was wearing an Argo T and my wife a Stamps one. Everytime I wear Argo merch in the area someone says, Argos. The fans are everywhere you just need to convince them to get their butts in the seats.

Remember that interview in BC where Braley said that the Argo's marketing surveys showed a large Italian fanbase that follows the Argos.

How can they get the "Argooooooos" catchphrase into more common usage, you can't get much better marketing than a saying that is in everyday use.

[ArgoGabe22]

Step 1: The Argos should go after ex-fans who were season ticket holders in the past but are no longer and find out the reason why they aren't attending and what can they do to encourage them to come back.

[rdavies]

^ I agree. Even if it comes to no avail it makes a statement to the former STH. It says that we care about your input and want you back. You would have to get by the issue of why you may have ignored or angered that fan in the past but it's the little things that count and it's a start on the correct path.

[Argocister]

I would love to see the results of any Argofan surveys that the Argos have done in the last few years.
I've noticed that in Sask. and at the RedBlacks home opener ( I had the chance to go ) there were a lot of families. That is what provides a longer term base in my opinion.
But, saying that, if the Argos only have 5-8 thousand STH, then their walk up crowd is pretty darn good.
So, if you need to attract families .... Do you move to the burbs? ..... But then you lose your walk up crowd.
If you leave it downtown, how can you attract the families and still keep it cost effective and easy to attend? ... Picnic and shopping areas?...like Ottawa.... If it is BMO, is there room to create an event for the fans? For families?

I think the secret will be to attract both .... Not easy but I'm sure it can be done.

[ArgoGabe22]

Step 2: Target the suburbs. I have seen Hamilton have events in Burlington, even had a fan day there. Other than practising in Mississauga when was the last time the Argos have done something to attract fans from Mississauga? I can't comment on the others since I do not reside there but they could have easily brought the Grey Cup to Square One or City Hall or Celebration Square. Argos have events like Argocise, Stop the Bullying, Level the Playing Field etc. but do they go around the whole GTA?

In 2004, I was in Grade 8 and Adrion Smith brought the Grey Cup to my school. Did they do the same in 2012? If so, did they spread it around the whole GTA?

[Invader]

The Argos are no different than the Lions, Als, Esks or Stamps. They need to strive to keep the CFL relevant in an urban, multi-national environment which is dominated by U.S.-based pro leagues. Our media is also heavily dominated by the U.S., so any All-Canadian entity will struggle to be noticed. The CFL has a proud tradition and has weathered many cloudy days to reach the pinnacle the league is enjoying today. I believe the product is so good, it basically sells itself, as Canadian football has been doing for 150 years. The more the league can be exposed to the uninitiated, the more these new fans will grow to love the CFL too.

Yes, there are some hurdles, but nothing worth doing is ever easy. I believe many of the Argos ills will be cured by relocating to a more-intimate outdoor stadium, where football was meant to be played. With 25,000 tickets to sell, the Argos should become a hot commodity in short order, similar to what happened in Montreal and now Ottawa. Then the news will become positive. It will be OK to be an Argo fan again!

[rdavies]

In 2004, I was in Grade 8 and Adrion Smith brought the Grey Cup to my school.

I've got shoes older than you. lol. But you bring to mind an interesting question that I think would help to be answered.

They say the Argo fanbase is older, if I do my math correctly you're around 24 years old and everyone tells me that the Argos aren't on your radar. Well, as a mod here, obviously they are on your radar which beggars the question how did you avoid the peer pressure or apathy against the Argos and become a fan?

From what most seem to report you are about as an endangered specie as a baby panda. What's your story and how many more are there like you and how can they be encouraged like they were in Ottawa. Does something like a pregame tailgate or music show (Trews) help?

I can see I'm going to be doing a lot of dissections, lol. Hate to keep writing lol but I can't stand those giant smilies. Can't we get rid of these (or make them smaller)?

[D-Gap-Willie]

OK - I am going to do something that I swore I would never do again -- namely post on this forum. What is needed is a complete change of philosophy - forget about trying to market the Argos like grapefruit at your local supermarket. The Argos don't need to sell grapefruit ( single tickets), but they need to develop true fans. Being a FAN means making a large emotional investment in your team - if you have made that emotional investment, you will find a way to buy season tickets, flex paks, etc. and come to games. Understand that without emotional investment there will NOT be financial investment.

There are many ingredients that go into making a true fan, but the most essential is a sense of belonging, a sense of being part of the action, a sense of being wanted - part of the 'team'. That is where the change of philosophy is needed. Forget the big city GTA marketing, and look at success. Do you know that Jeff hunt has met 80% of all Redblacks STH, and has made sure that the other directors have met the others. The fans know that they are inside and wanted. Also, do you think that TFC fans refer to BMO as "their grounds" by accident - no they feel ownership and being part of it all. Everybody in Hamilton feels some kinship with Bob Young, even though he is not from Hamilton. I could go on with others, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, most Argo fans feel that they are merely watching the passing parade at arms length, and present day Argo marketing creates some interest, but only sufficient to lead a fan to watch the game on TV - more grapefruit sold.

As a FAN of the Argos for 48 years and season ticket holder (until this year) for 42 years, I can attest to the changes in attitude which accompany downturns in attendance. When attendance has shrivelled, so has many fans sense of belonging and being part of the team. Thinking back to the days of constant sell outs at Exhibition Stadium of 33,125, missing a game was like passing up on your family reunion - the fans were like family, joined together by emotional commitment.

It's not about demographics, ethnicity, beauty of the stadium, tailgating, difficulty of the commute or one hundred other excuses - those things can all be overcome in time. It's about belonging and feeling not only wanted, but part of the family - folks want to be fans NOT customers.. Put players and profile execs to work meeting people, phoning people making them feel wanted - not merely a limp fan day.. That ground swell of emotion can be rebuilt.

[rdavies]

Awesome post and great food for thought.

Every CFL team (save Edmonton) has had severe financial crises (to the point of bankruptcy) in the past 30 years. And yet most of them have amazingly recovered and prospered. As different and diverse markets as they all are, they have proven recovery and prosperity is possible as it is in Toronto. Even if the league were totally detested, the market is so large that you could still find 25k contrarians to go against conventional attitudes.

Another note, if the season tickets sales are as dismal as some have reported, doesn't that mean even though there have been poor crowds that the walkup crowd has been good?

[paulwoods13]

Do you know that Jeff hunt has met 80% of all Redblacks STH, and has made sure that the other directors have met the others. The fans know that they are inside and wanted. Also, do you think that TFC fans refer to BMO as "their grounds" by accident - no they feel ownership and being part of it all. Everybody in Hamilton feels some kinship with Bob Young, even though he is not from Hamilton. I could go on with others, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, most Argo fans feel that they are merely watching the passing parade at arms length, and present day Argo marketing creates some interest, but only sufficient to lead a fan to watch the game on TV - more grapefruit sold.

It's about belonging and feeling not only wanted, but part of the family - folks want to be fans NOT customers.. Put players and profile execs to work meeting people, phoning people making them feel wanted - not merely a limp fan day.. That ground swell of emotion can be rebuilt.

Very astute observations and suggestions.

[Argo57]

OK - I am going to do something that I swore I would never do again -- namely post on this forum. What is needed is a complete change of philosophy - forget about trying to market the Argos like grapefruit at your local supermarket. The Argos don't need to sell grapefruit ( single tickets), but they need to develop true fans. Being a FAN means making a large emotional investment in your team - if you have made that emotional investment, you will find a way to buy season tickets, flex paks, etc. and come to games. Understand that without emotional investment there will NOT be financial investment.

There are many ingredients that go into making a true fan, but the most essential is a sense of belonging, a sense of being part of the action, a sense of being wanted - part of the 'team'. That is where the change of philosophy is needed. Forget the big city GTA marketing, and look at success. Do you know that Jeff hunt has met 80% of all Redblacks STH, and has made sure that the other directors have met the others. The fans know that they are inside and wanted. Also, do you think that TFC fans refer to BMO as "their grounds" by accident - no they feel ownership and being part of it all. Everybody in Hamilton feels some kinship with Bob Young, even though he is not from Hamilton. I could go on with others, but you get the idea.

Unfortunately, most Argo fans feel that they are merely watching the passing parade at arms length, and present day Argo marketing creates some interest, but only sufficient to lead a fan to watch the game on TV - more grapefruit sold.

As a FAN of the Argos for 48 years and season ticket holder (until this year) for 42 years, I can attest to the changes in attitude which accompany downturns in attendance. When attendance has shrivelled, so has many fans sense of belonging and being part of the team. Thinking back to the days of constant sell outs at Exhibition Stadium of 33,125, missing a game was like passing up on your family reunion - the fans were like family, joined together by emotional commitment.

It's not about demographics, ethnicity, beauty of the stadium, tailgating, difficulty of the commute or one hundred other excuses - those things can all be overcome in time. It's about belonging and feeling not only wanted, but part of the family - folks want to be fans NOT customers.. Put players and profile execs to work meeting people, phoning people making them feel wanted - not merely a limp fan day.. That ground swell of emotion can be rebuilt.

Perfect!!
Follow Willie's philosophy and they will succeed!!!

[T-Bone]

I apologize for bringing up TFC as example but D-Gap-Willie you have made a very good point. We all know TFC has had some bad seasons prior to this year and especially last season. The community of fans is part of what made me want to go to games last year, especially towards the end when there was no hope of playoffs yet again and the weather wasn't particularly great. I think community is definitely a big part of sports. Part of the reason I became an Argo/CFL fan is because of the people I have meet. This has been said many times before but unfortunately the Argos fan base does seem to be very fractured and I don't know what the fix is for that. Though sometimes dysfunctional we do have a community here on this forum and I would like to see it grow. Glad to see you back D-Gap-Willie.

[Argocister]

I like D- Gap- Willies suggestion of emotional involvement from the fans and specifically the STHs.
It fits in with previously mentioned comments of contacting previous STH and including families in the mix.
Also it will help continue the relationship with the team after school .... Where ArgoGabe had mentioned becoming a fan with the visiting Grey Cup, the Argos have built relationships with students in all their programs they do with the schools. They need to continue to build on these relationships.
Somewhere where we all belong ....... Us, .....the long lost souls of the Argofandom ........Shayman, I think there's a song in there somewhere.
All joking aside, I do like this suggestion. Hope you get to attend one of the Argos games D-Gap

[ArgoGabe22]

Well, as a mod here, obviously they are on your radar which beggars the question how did you avoid the peer pressure or apathy against the Argos and become a fan?

From what most seem to report you are about as an endangered specie as a baby panda. What's your story and how many more are there like you and how can they be encouraged like they were in Ottawa. Does something like a pregame tailgate or music show (Trews) help?

I'm actually younger than 24 but that isn't important.

I went to my first game in 2004 with my father and brother just to do something and you could say I just fell in love with the game. Never a big football fan before but then afterwards I started watching the NFL too and concluded I much prefer the CFL. In school I was the only CFL fan, but also followed the NFL but no one bothered me about it. I think the Argos need to sell the game more. Personally, I don't care for tailgates and I sure don't care for the half-time shows. I'm just there to watch CFL football but the gameday experience is starting to get to me with the excessively loud speakers.

Going along with D-Gap's post. 2004 was the first year I followed the Argos so winning the Grey Cup was a good experience. What made it better was that as an Argos fan, having Adrion Smith bringing the Cup to school and even having a field trip to one Argos practice called "Practice with the Champs" really made it special to rub it in with school mates. Even they enjoyed the experience of talking with players and getting autographs. Being young at the time, the experience in 2005 after the GC win really sold me as a fan which eventually translated into seasons tickets.

I know someone we all know who had a special visit from Henry Burris delivering their REDBLACK tickets at their door. Nothing too special but it sure beats a boring letter in the mail.

[Argo]

Excessively loud speakers, Rogers security drones, exploitive food and drink pricing for SOS-quality, poor ambience, Argonauts-as-unwanted-tenants, generally poor football played at so-called "home", ticket prices increased (a mini-epic fail), Horn Chen impersonator as owner, ...

I'm actually younger than 24 but that isn't important.

I went to my first game in 2004 with my father and brother just to do something and you could say I just fell in love with the game. Never a big football fan before but then afterwards I started watching the NFL too and concluded I much prefer the CFL. In school I was the only CFL fan, but also followed the NFL but no one bothered me about it. I think the Argos need to sell the game more. Personally, I don't care for tailgates and I sure don't care for the half-time shows. I'm just there to watch CFL football but the gameday experience is starting to get to me with the excessively loud speakers.

Going along with D-Gap's post. 2004 was the first year I followed the Argos so winning the Grey Cup was a good experience. What made it better was that as an Argos fan, having Adrion Smith bringing the Cup to school and even having a field trip to one Argos practice called "Practice with the Champs" really made it special to rub it in with school mates. Even they enjoyed the experience of talking with players and getting autographs. Being young at the time, the experience in 2005 after the GC win really sold me as a fan which eventually translated into seasons tickets.

I know someone we all know who had a special visit from Henry Burris delivering their REDBLACK tickets at their door. Nothing too special but it sure beats a boring letter in the mail.

[ArgoRavi]

I like D- Gap- Willies suggestion of emotional involvement from the fans and specifically the STHs.
It fits in with previously mentioned comments of contacting previous STH and including families in the mix.
Also it will help continue the relationship with the team after school .... Where ArgoGabe had mentioned becoming a fan with the visiting Grey Cup, the Argos have built relationships with students in all their programs they do with the schools. They need to continue to build on these relationships.
Somewhere where we all belong ....... Us, .....the long lost souls of the Argofandom ........Shayman, I think there's a song in there somewhere.
All joking aside, I do like this suggestion. Hope you get to attend one of the Argos games D-Gap

For all of the community work that the Argos have been doing for many years, it has not translated in ticket sales. That doesn't mean all that work is useless but it would be nice to see it result in butts in the seats. I am not sure how that happens though.

[1argoholic]

Firstly what a GREAT post D-Gap-Willie!!!

My thoughts on marketing to new Canadians is to convert or try and tap into an untapped market. Perhaps these folks would like to feel wanted and show interest in what might be new sport to them. Canada isn't just bad Maple Leaf hockey. We'll never know if marketing on a steady basis would work here as the Argos just don't market steadily at all.

Hell I know how it feels to be marketing to a crowd when you're not known. Back in 88 I started my landscape company in Mississauga and got a job within my first week. Getting sick of the GTA rat race and wanting to be closer to family we made the mistake of moving to Van Isle. It was like pulling teeth for this TO guy to get going there. Now I'm starting over yet again with a very slow but better response in an area where we know not one single person. I've quoted a few jobs but still have zero to show for it. It crosses my mind to pull the plug on a whole bunch of ads but that would be dumb. I need to get my brand seen.
The Argos need constant marketing and to draw old fans back.

[paulwoods13]

I apologize for bringing up TFC as example but D-Gap-Willie you have made a very good point. We all know TFC has had some bad seasons prior to this year and especially last season. The community of fans is part of what made me want to go to games last year, especially towards the end when there was no hope of playoffs yet again and the weather wasn't particularly great. I think community is definitely a big part of sports. Part of the reason I became an Argo/CFL fan is because of the people I have meet. This has been said many times before but unfortunately the Argos fan base does seem to be very fractured and I don't know what the fix is for that. Though sometimes dysfunctional we do have a community here on this forum and I would like to see it grow. Glad to see you back D-Gap-Willie.

I think we need to find a way to emulate the fan groups that cluster together at TFC games. Red Patch Boys etc. Give them different scarves or some other identifying feature, each group gets its own song/chant that is played once a game for all in the group to bellow at the top of their lungs, etc. The trick is it has to be (and to feel) authentic and not forced/manufactured. Not an easy thing to accomplish.

One thing I have wanted forever is for the Argos to adopt some kind of anthem: a very inspiring piece of music, preferably one that fans can sing/chant/bellow along to, to be played at specified occasions such as when the team is introduced or scores a TD. Something like Wake Up by Arcade Fire might work -- it has a chant-like section with no words that can be screamed out by the crowd in unison. This would in some small way emulate the chants English soccer teams have. Even the Buffalo Bills have something similar -- they play the '60s hit Shout every time the team scores and a hell of a lot of the fans sing and dance along with it. It's fun and it inspires a feeling of togetherness.

Dal Richards' Argo Song is very cool and I'm thrilled that Steve and the Argonotes revived it, but it's not the right song to get the crowd involved. Argos Rule the CFL by the Argonotes has potential to do so, musically, but is probably too wordy and too much about the other teams. Love Them Argos from 1981 might have worked (especially because it incorporated the classic "Aaaaar-gooooos" cadence) but it never took off and was quickly dropped. The Argo Glide by Willie Pless et al was too smooth and not at all inspirational.

The song doesn't have to be about the Argos (although that would help) but it has to be anthemic and designed to inspire everyone in the crowd to scream along in unison. Wake Up, the screamed parts of Viva La Vida by Coldplay, or Stomp by the Brothers Johnson are three that I think could be made to work.