August 1, 2014: Toronto Argonauts vs. Montreal Alouettes

[paulwoods13]

Ricky is the highest-paid player in the league. It is reasonable to expect an above average level of play from him, injuries or no injuries.

Meezy is absolutely right when he said good teams can overcome injuries. This happens when the team's top veterans raise the level of their game a notch, find another gear, and lift up all the new guys around them.

It seems like Tom Brady loses half his receiving corps every year thru injuries, yet he always finds a way to make it work with new guys, because he raises his game.

Surely not even Meezy could argue that Ricky has raised the level of his game in the last 3 weeks.

What would raising his game look like? Somehow completing a pass to a guy who is not open or ran the wrong route? Forcing throws through the arms of defensive linemen who are mauling the o-line AND getting their arms in the lanes? Sprouting wings on his feet?

I would argue that by finding a way to win, avoiding mistakes and throwing two TD passes to a newbie, Ricky did in fact "raise his game" last night. It's amazing that what he does is never good enough for a few Argo fans. And I fear we are now into the second cycle of Cleo Lemon, i.e. him not being good enough is all we're gonna hear from one poster for the rest of the season.

[argotom]

Excellent post, Paul. It's actually a group of 3-4 posters, though

What is a group of 3-4 mean?
This is a debate into the troubles the team has had and no one here has compared RR to Cleo Lemon, to suggest same or to bring up Lemon's name with RR in the same sentence is insanity.
More is expected of a QB with the credentials of RR likely the highest paid athlete in the league, after all the man has been voted by his peers as the best player in the league.
Like I said a sure future hall of famer.
When his play is sub par in comparison to other years like it has been this year, it has to be called out.
After all there is no such thing as an untouchable in sport.

[Ron]

When his play is sub par in comparison to other years like it has been this year, it has to be called out.
.

When your analysis is sub par in comparison to other years like it has been this year, it also has to be called out.

[argotom]

When your analysis is sub par in comparison to other years like it has been this year, it also has to be called out.

That's absolutely ridiculous, others have also said the same thing.
I have never said Ricky is the only reason this team is losing, it's a collaborative effort with other parts and players of the team.
After all look at our record 2-4, which may have been worse had we played any other team yesterday.

If one or two receivers were out with injury you could maybe surmise that Ray has been a little off, but when the entire receiving corps is out and now the backups are nicked as well he gets a pass in my books. Let's also factor in the somewhat questionable O-Line play so far this season as well, actually feel bad for the guy!!!

I agree with you it's a total team effort.
However, the QB being such a pivotal roll on a football team this position is magnified much more so.

[Argo57]

What is a group of 3-4 mean?
This is a debate into the troubles the team has had and no one here has compared RR to Cleo Lemon, to suggest same or to bring up Lemon's name with RR in the same sentence is insanity.
More is expected of a QB with the credentials of RR likely the highest paid athlete in the league, after all the man has been voted by his peers as the best player in the league.
Like I said a sure future hall of famer.
When his play is sub par in comparison to other years like it has been this year, it has to be called out.
After all there is no such thing as an untouchable in sport.

If one or two receivers were out with injury you could maybe surmise that Ray has been a little off, but when the entire receiving corps is out and now the backups are nicked as well he gets a pass in my books. Let's also factor in the somewhat questionable O-Line play so far this season as well, actually feel bad for the guy!!!

[paulwoods13]

More is expected of a QB with the credentials of RR likely the highest paid athlete in the league, after all the man has been voted by his peers as the best player in the league.

So what, exactly, could/should he be doing that would constitute "more"? How should he be playing differently?

[Argo]

Since this thread principally has evolved to discuss Ray's performance (including his performance relative to other QBs), I will add my 2 cents' worth: there's not terribly much wrong with Ray's performance thus far that cannot be explained by the absence of a bunch of starting receivers. When Ray is given quality to work with (e.g. Slaton), good things still happen.

Some comments on the abilities and play of other QBs have been absurd: stating, for example, that Reilly "can't throw"; that "Collaros was brutal in his first few games", etc. (IIRC Collaros - invariably running for his life - was knocked out of action playing in just his second game, playing behind an abysmal O line that allowed 10 sacks in game one and continued that fine play in game two. And the difficulties of the position that Collaros found himself in would have only been compounded in the case of an older pocket passer...)

[1argoholic]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe guys ripping Ray. This is Friggin so laughable. Is it Ray's fault that Barker hasn't found superstars to fill the roll of his injured superstars. You can't replace Owens and Durie. Now even a solid rookie who catching the ball amazingly is injured in Coombs.

When we get our injured guys back we'll be laughing in this really shit filled eastern division.

[Ron]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe guys ripping Ray. This is Friggin so laughable. Is it Ray's fault that Barker hasn't found superstars to fill the roll of his injured superstars. You can't replace Owens and Durie. Now even a solid rookie who catching the ball amazingly is injured in Coombs.

When we get our injured guys back we'll be laughing in this really shit filled eastern division.

Hey look! You got to be the voice of OPTIMISM!

[Rich]

What would raising his game look like? Somehow completing a pass to a guy who is not open or ran the wrong route? Forcing throws through the arms of defensive linemen who are mauling the o-line AND getting their arms in the lanes? Sprouting wings on his feet?

C'mon Paul. You said "Ricky is struggling right now. Obviously the plethora of new receivers is not helping but he seems a bit off"

You and I are seeing the same thing. I am saying the same thing, and so are several others. Taking into consideration that he's lost all his starting receivers, he still "seems a bit off".

The only point I'm trying to make is that this is the worst possible time for him to be "a bit off". When you have a lot of injuries you need your best guys to be at their very best.

So given all the injuries, Ricky raising his game = Ricky not looking a bit off anymore.

That's not too much to ask from the league's highest-paid player, and I think he knows it, and I fully expect him to play better going forward, because he's a consummate pro.

[paulwoods13]

C'mon Paul. You said "Ricky is struggling right now. Obviously the plethora of new receivers is not helping but he seems a bit off"

You and I are seeing the same thing. I am saying the same thing, and so are several others. Taking into consideration that he's lost all his starting receivers, he still "seems a bit off".

The only point I'm trying to make is that this is the worst possible time for him to be "a bit off". When you have a lot of injuries you need your best guys to be at their very best.

So given all the injuries, Ricky raising his game = Ricky not looking a bit off anymore.

That's not too much to ask from the league's highest-paid player, and I think he knows it, and I fully expect him to play better going forward, because he's a consummate pro.

I also said (to end that sentence) and I suspect he might be playing through some sort of injury.

Obviously I have no inside info but I still think that is possible. He has taken more hits than we'd like, and a few of them have been big ones.

But again, even if he was not off in the slightest, the likelihood of unfettered success is reduced significantly by the receiving corps he is working with. Adams is not Owens, Bradwell is not Durie, Fayson is not Barnes, Mann is not Chiles (altho even Chiles is not Chiles so far this season), Slaton/Johnson/Steele are not Kackert, and none of those guys is Inman. A great throw to a guy who drops it is still an incompletion. A well-designed play that is scuppered by a receiver running the wrong route is still a failure.

If Ray can't match Tom Brady's apparent ability to work with new receivers (some of whom inevitably seem to evolve into stars), I guess we will have to live with that. And again, it is beyond ridiculous to suggest that he has been "below average" this season. He has, however, been "below Ricky Ray 2013," which was one of the greatest levels we have ever seen.