Is Ray on his last legs?

[Gill The Thrill]

I've decided to start a thread based on a post I made under the Hamilton-Toronto game thread just to see what opinion is...I know some people won't agree and that's fine, but some people will. Remember I'm looking at the long term which I will clarify as meaning the 2016 season for this thread.

I know fans fall in love with a guy and envision him at his peak for 20 years, but the truth is we are all human including our favourite players and even they won't have the skills to perform at the level they used to. Sadly, I believe Ricky Ray is at the point where his skills will start to slowly diminish and getting another QB ready for the 2016 season or sooner will creep up before we know it. Again I like Ray and I think he'd be a great mentor for any capable QB who needs time to learn the CFL game and who can slowly ease into a starter's role as Ray's role will naturally diminish.

Here's a recap of that post on the game thread:

Ricky Ray is not getting any better as a QB and he was a great QB and is still a pretty good QB, but if you're not getting better, there's only one way to go and you know what direction that is.

I like Ray, I think he's had a great career but his delivery is just a touch slower than it was last season and the season before, and he was never one to escape the pocket and make big plays with his feet.

I have to cringe when I hear Rod Black and Duane Ford say that if he plays another 5 seasons he may reach 80000 yds...are you kidding? He looks like he'll be lucky to play after next year. He's been getting hit a lot this season and the hits will physically start to take it's toll on him. He suffered an injury last year that derailed his season and the Argos season.

I really think the Argos better start searching for another QB for the future or start even playing Harris to see what he can do. The Argos are a dreadful team this year and will be lucky to get to 6 wins. Ray's slight diminishment in skills is no failure on his part, it is just the natural part of life to see your athletic skills slow down to the point of where you can't do the things you used to be able to do as quickly as you used to do them.

It's why I was not so appalled by some who suggested the Argos should keep Collaros as a future starter.

Sure, the O-line has contributed, but it's not just the O-line, he's thrown some interceptions that he would not have thrown in previous years even when not under pressure.

Once again, an argument against this opinion is fine, and I expect to hear the Calvillo argument as a defense that we can depend on Ray for the next 5 years or that Owens and Durie are'nt playing....By the way, you really think Owens will be healthy enough to be as productive in the future as he was from 2010-2012. Football is a brutal game and time marches on, sometimes so fast and too soon to not even be ready for thinking about major changes. Wally Bouno and John Hufnagel run great organizations because they have the foresight to see this and make those tough decisions....I don't know if Barker does.

[Qman]

He is playing like his last year in Edmonton ... which was terrible.

[ArgoRavi]

He is playing like his last year in Edmonton ... which was terrible.

He wasn't bad in his last year in Edmonton when he led the team to an 11-7 record and a loss in the West Final. He had his struggles from '06 to '10 but the entire team did.

[MEEZY]

I'm not entirely sure what to think anymore. During the first half of the season I was defending Ray because the Argos have had issues with receiver injuries. But after the past few games, he just completely misses some of his passes and makes bad decisions to throw into coverage or take a sack rather than getting rid of the ball.

He had at least 5-6 blatant drops and no protection. I'm wondering if maybe the performance of his offense is starting to deteriorate his confidence. As Qman mentioned, he played poorly (or at least appeared to do so) during his last years in Edmonton. But Edmonton also had a very suspect O-line and terrible coaching during these years.

If Ray was behind a good O-line and had first-string receivers I'm sure that he would do well. But on the other hand, the truly elite QBs like Calvillo would rise above and make do with a crappy situation. So I'm not sure...

[ArgoRavi]

I'm not entirely sure what to think anymore. During the first half of the season I was defending Ray because the Argos have had issues with receiver injuries. But after the past few games, he just completely misses some of his passes and makes bad decisions to throw into coverage or take a sack rather than getting rid of the ball.

He had at least 5-6 blatant drops and no protection. I'm wondering if maybe the performance of his offense is starting to deteriorate his confidence. As Qman mentioned, he played poorly (or at least appeared to do so) during his last years in Edmonton. But Edmonton also had a very suspect O-line and terrible coaching during these years.

If Ray was behind a good O-line and had first-string receivers I'm sure that he would do well. But on the other hand, the truly elite QBs like Calvillo would rise above and make do with a crappy situation. So I'm not sure...

I agree with a good bit of what you are saying. In regards to Calvillo though, he never had to put up with this quantity of injuries in Montreal so we really don't know how he would have done in this situation. There were two years, in particular, where Calvillo did struggle though and that was in '07 and last year. In both of those years, they changed the offensive system and had him holding onto the ball longer. His offensive line struggled last year with changes to the offence and Calvillo, in turn, also struggled.

[jerrym]

With an atrocious receiving fill-in receiving corp, a poor offensive line and mediocre RBs, what do you expect Ray would accomplish?

[Qman]

He wasn't bad in his last year in Edmonton when he led the team to an 11-7 record and a loss in the West Final. He had his struggles from '06 to '10 but the entire team did.

he was god awful his last few years in edmonton .... why do you think they got rid of him.

[Argo57]

Ray is still a good QB Gill and with all of the injuries he gets a bit of a pass regarding his performances this season but as I have previously posted if he continues to perform this way when the regular guys return then we have a problem.
Argos should be looking at their Quarterbacking situation in the near future, always should be prepared in case of injury or potential erosion of an older players skills.
Are Gale do Harris the answer in the future, not sure but my concern is who will they attract in the near future especially considering the way this organization is being run.
Gill your last comment regarding Barker having the foresight in making tough decisions regarding key player transition is fair but Barker may also be a victim of the current owners lack of direction and commitment to the future.
I suspect a lot of the roster flux in the recent past is a case of former NFL'ers and major college players looking at the Argos scrambling around to find any local patch of grass to hold a practice and also paying peanuts and saying f**k this I'm out of here.
Think about it you are a talented player just out of college who size or skill set suits the CFL and you have a decision between say Toronto, Calgary or even Hamilton after a few phone calls to people in the know you may take a pass on Toronto and go elsewhere, I'm sure it has happened.

[ArgoRavi]

he was god awful his last few years in edmonton .... why do you think they got rid of him.

Again, he wasn't bad in his final season in '11. As Meezy said, there were a number of reasons why Ray wasn't as good from '06 to '10 that had nothing to do with him. The Esks got rid of Tillman because Tillman thought that he was smarter than anyone in the game and could get rid of Ray and his high salary while continuing to win football games. He was proven to be wrong.

[Wobbler]

This will be a much better-informed conversation two weeks from now, when Owens, Durie, Chiles, and Rogers are all back in the lineup along with other changes.

[Argo57]

He is playing like his last year in Edmonton ... which was terrible.

His first season in Toronto was also a huge disappointment to all of us as well!!

[tennyis]

Until the WR's stop dropping 50% of the passes it's pretty much impossible to tell how good/bad Ricky Ray is

[larz-7]

Is Ray on his last legs no.Is he off abit this year sure.Did he have off years in Edmonton yes.If we had AC this year would we be better, i say no .AC was horrible in a bad system much like our team this year .Todays game if our receivers catch half the balls they should of ,we win .This team has gone through way to much this year and its taking its toll.When both Durie and owens are back it will hopefully make a difference as they demand attention making it easier for our other receivers to maybe catch a ball.So at this point even thou Ray might struggle at times i think the problem is our receivers or the receiver coach or both

[AngeloV]

I say no, but I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt until I see the offence play with a full roster.

[Argocister]

The answer is no .... He's on his second half of his career but I believe that career will improve. It's a downturn year but hopefully with some of the better receivers returning we will see the real Ricky Ray.

[Tau Ceti]

This will be a much better-informed conversation two weeks from now, when Owens, Durie, Chiles, and Rogers are all back in the lineup along with other changes.

Agreed. You can't judge him properly with the current roster and injury troubles. This is a guy just a year removed from 78% passing accuracy. Writing him off now is incredibly hasty. I am concerned about the late game interceptions, which suggest he's rattled out there under pressure without familiar receiver targets. Hopefully by late September this conversation will be different.

[argonaut11xx]

this thread is RETARDED.....

Ricky Ray is the ONLY good thing about this SH.ITY version of an Argo team...give the guy a BREAK..

SHI,TTY O-Line, SHI.TTY recievers...and BELOW average at every level...plus a coach who is not able to READ the flow of a game and make adjustments

[ArgoRavi]

Agreed. You can't judge him properly with the current roster and injury troubles. This is a guy just a year removed from 78% passing accuracy. Writing him off now is incredibly hasty. I am concerned about the late game interceptions, which suggest he's rattled out there under pressure without familiar receiver targets. Hopefully by late September this conversation will be different.

I would add that the late game interceptions are due to Ray desperately trying to make plays more than anything else. I am sure that he wouldn't ordinarily make those throws but when you are second and long or third and long late in the game with a makeshift receiving corps and trailing, what choice do you have?

[paulwoods13]

If his receivers yesterday had been Bakari Grant, Andy Fantuz, Luke Tasker and James Ellingson, with a side of Carey Koch and Andy Giguere, would we be having this thread?

[Double Dare]

I'm not entirely sure what to think anymore. During the first half of the season I was defending Ray because the Argos have had issues with receiver injuries. But after the past few games, he just completely misses some of his passes and makes bad decisions to throw into coverage or take a sack rather than getting rid of the ball.

He had at least 5-6 blatant drops and no protection. I'm wondering if maybe the performance of his offense is starting to deteriorate his confidence.
If Ray was behind a good O-line and had first-string receivers I'm sure that he would do well. But on the other hand, the truly elite QBs like Calvillo would rise above and make do with a crappy situation. So I'm not sure...

Exactly how I feel. The jury is out for now.