Is Ray on his last legs?

[Qman]

The person who got rid of him was that POS egotistical dumbass Eric Tillman.
No one in their right mind would trade a hall of fame QB for a kicker and a hack pivot who was a moderate backup at best.

Because they thought he was nearly done and not worth the cap space.

[AngeloV]

No I meant like he did with the Argonauts in six games last year. Looks like you're playing both sides of the fence on this issue, AngeloV. First you say Collaros could "dominate" in this league, now you're suggesting he's a bum. Which is it?

I'm not playing both sides of anything. You said he would have run for 100 yards, and I said there is no evidence to prove that he has ever run for 100 yards in a game. In fact, I gave you evidence in which he was no where near that in a game in which he was under pressure similar to the way Ray was yesterday.

Fact is, He "may" be dominating, but the sample size is too small (as it was with Casey Printers in B.C.). There is nothing wrong with the decision the Argos made to go with the proven guy that has done it over a number of years.

Because they thought he was nearly done and not worth the cap space.

No, because Tillman did it after a Grey Cup win in '07 with success, so his ego became so big that he figured he could win with any QB.

[Argo57]

There comes a point in time where one cannot keep using this as an excuse.
Sure the current replacement receivers are a contributing factor, but the ball still has to be thrown to the receiver.
The vast majority of the throws have not been connected by Ricky.
Serious questions like this thread have to be asked and especially for some of us here who have seen the obvious deterioration of the quality of play which in past years and yes before the Esks traded him was at a peak.
I am one of those who noticed this especially last year and for me anyway it is evident that RR is on the down side of his career.
Yes we should have kept Zach and instead traded Ricky to teams last year looking for a QB, and there were at least 3 possibles in the market place.
This likely would have brought a decent return.

Once again we did win the Grey Cup in 2012 didn't we??
Ray was also lights out in his QB rating last year as well, if our starting receivers return and he continues to struggle then yes we have a major problem, maybe the majority of his incompletions are the current backup receivers running incorrect routes, who knows we will find out in the next couple of weeks.
Think about what we have seen this season so far, substandard O-Line play (and that's being kind) and complete decimation of our receiving corps due to injury (thus a staggering drop off in talent) sounds like the perfect recipe for any quarterback to flourish doesn't it???

[Argocister]

WEll Milanovich is known to trade away league leaders ( remember Boyd?)
So Ray is league leader in yards for the CFL ..... cfl.ca .... When your play is declining I don't think you are at the top. Can you imagine where he would be with a series of receivers that can catch?

For some reason I don't think he gets traded

[paulwoods13]

Sure the current replacement receivers are a contributing factor, but the ball still has to be thrown to the receiver.
The vast majority of the throws have not been connected by Ricky.
Serious questions like this thread have to be asked and especially for some of us here who have seen the obvious deterioration of the quality of play which in past years and yes before the Esks traded him was at a peak.
I am one of those who noticed this especially last year and for me anyway it is evident that RR is on the down side of his career.

1. I thought you did not even see the past three games? If you had, perhaps you would have noticed how many passes hit receivers right in the hands and were dropped.

2. You are seriously suggesting that you noticed a deterioration in RR's play last season, when he set a league record for passing accuracy, had a 20-to-2 ratio of TDs to interceptions and came damn close to being named the league's MOP despite missing eight games? If so, you must really be watching on a whole different level than the rest of us.

[MEEZY]

There comes a point in time where one cannot keep using this as an excuse.
Sure the current replacement receivers are a contributing factor, but the ball still has to be thrown to the receiver.
The vast majority of the throws have not been connected by Ricky.
Serious questions like this thread have to be asked and especially for some of us here who have seen the obvious deterioration of the quality of play which in past years and yes before the Esks traded him was at a peak.
I am one of those who noticed this especially last year and for me anyway it is evident that RR is on the down side of his career.
Yes we should have kept Zach and instead traded Ricky to teams last year looking for a QB, and there were at least 3 possibles in the market place.
This likely would have brought a decent return.

Tom, I know that from the perspective of people that just watch the surface elements of football, the optics would appear to suggest that Collaros outplayed Ray. However, when you consider the respective offensive support that each QB received....

Regarding your comment that the ball has to be thrown to the receiver, yes, this is true, but I saw at least 5-6 blatant drops that receivers made to balls that were RIGHT IN THEIR HANDS. Someone who just looks at stats would say that Ray played badly because he was something like 7-16, 140 yards, etc., which, on the surface, looks statistically poor, but if you actually watched the game you would see that Ray had no help from his O-line or receivers. If you think that poor play from the supporting cast is just an excuse, please name one QB who has succeeded when the receivers drop half of the balls that are thrown directly to them and the QB is under pressure on every play.

You noticed Ray's deterioration in play last year? When he set multiple records and was the MOP runner up?

Eric Tillman also thought that Ray would have brought a decent return. We all know how that turned out and who won that trade....

[Stouffvillain]

I don't think Ray is on his last legs though I understand where the original poster is coming from. Ricky has been forcing quite a few passes up the last few weeks, take the late interception and how long it hung in the air in double coverage for example, but he really has been left with no other options. The only wideout out there with him that would be seeing regular minutes if everyone is healthy is Barnes and even he hasn't been great this year. The receivers are doing what they can but they just can't get separation from the DB's they are up against.

Add the recent Oline play in the mix and it's easy to see why Ray hasn't been at his best. The tackles haven't been very good these last few games and even the middle of the line has given up sacks recently. With the quality of receivers teams can play man and send extra blitzers that aren't getting picked up. Hamilton was last in the league in sacks but the Argos made them look like an elite level pass rush.

I don't think Ray plays another five years as Rod Black and Duane Ford were saying during the broadcast but does he have two maybe three? Quite possibly. Get him a healthy team around him and see the difference.

[hugoagogo]

Because they thought he was nearly done and not worth the cap space.

he, not they (all ET's decision), and clearly he wasn't done. Only a fool would think otherwise. the team was struggling those years - always easy to point the finger at the star player, but he was one of the few guys that earned his paycheque. By the way congrats again Argos on the 100th Grey Cup.
It's clear Ray is going through some struggles right now, but the whole team is. Get healthy on offense and things get a whole lot better.

[Rich]

Tom, I know that from the perspective of people that just watch the surface elements of football, the optics would appear to suggest that Collaros outplayed Ray. However, when you consider the respective offensive support that each QB received....

While we're on the subject of extenuating circumstances, don't forget that Collaros was very rusty, not having played a game in over six weeks, and will likely be a lot sharper in his next outing.

I'm not playing both sides of anything. You said he would have run for 100 yards, and I said there is no evidence to prove that he has ever run for 100 yards in a game. In fact, I gave you evidence in which he was no where near that in a game in which he was under pressure similar to the way Ray was yesterday.

Forget the 100 yards. I pulled that number out of my ass. The question was what would Collaros have done if he was QB for the Argos Monday, and I said he would have bought more time by rolling out of the pocket more, and he would have gained more yards rushing than Ricky did. Surely nobody would disagree with this.

[ArgoRavi]

Forget the 100 yards. I pulled that number out of my ass. The question was what would Collaros have done if he was QB for the Argos Monday, and I said he would have bought more time by rolling out of the pocket more, and he would have gained more yards rushing than Ricky did. Surely nobody would disagree with this.

Part of the reason we don't know what he would have done at QB for the Argos is because Hamilton would have game planned differently for Collaros than they did for Ray. Collaros, if you remember, was largely ineffective in his one start against Hamilton last year.

[argolio]

Building your team for the future, as opposed to playing to win now, is about more than strictly personnel concerns. It's about a team's philosophy. When the Colts opted for Andrew Luck over Peyton Manning, the decision wasn't based on a comparison of either player's current ability, it was based on the team's long-term outlook.

Huge mitigating factor there as Manning was coming off major neck surgery.

[Double Dare]

I don't think Ray is on his last legs though I understand where the original poster is coming from. Ricky has been forcing quite a few passes up the last few weeks, take the late interception and how long it hung in the air in double coverage for example, but he really has been left with no other options. The only wideout out there with him that would be seeing regular minutes if everyone is healthy is Barnes and even he hasn't been great this year. The receivers are doing what they can but they just can't get separation from the DB's they are up against.

Add the recent Oline play in the mix and it's easy to see why Ray hasn't been at his best. The tackles haven't been very good these last few games and even the middle of the line has given up sacks recently. With the quality of receivers teams can play man and send extra blitzers that aren't getting picked up. Hamilton was last in the league in sacks but the Argos made them look like an elite level pass rush.

I don't think Ray plays another five years as Rod Black and Duane Ford were saying during the broadcast but does he have two maybe three? Quite possibly. Get him a healthy team around him and see the difference.

Bang on! This post is pure logic.

[Stouffvillain]

Building your team for the future, as opposed to playing to win now, is about more than strictly personnel concerns. It's about a team's philosophy. When the Colts opted for Andrew Luck over Peyton Manning, the decision wasn't based on a comparison of either player's current ability, it was based on the team's long-term outlook.

It's also much easier to take that risk when the QB you're moving to is widely viewed as a generational talent. Does Indy make that move if it's Blake Bortles and and Andrew Luck they're drafting?

I get the point you're trying to make but there isn't the Andrew Luck type QB comparable available to the Argos to move on to. Collaros could scramble a bit more than Ray but if you dropped Collaros in this situation I don't think he has this team ahead of where they currently stand. If the team is healthy this isn't even a close call between Ray and Collaros.

When you have Montreal still resetting after AC, an expansion franchise starting up in Ottawa and the only real threat for the top of the division coming from Hamilton why would you choose to start over at the most important position. You can win for the last few years that Ricky has left and hopefully find and groom his successor behind him in the mean time.

[AngeloV]

Forget the 100 yards. I pulled that number out of my ass. The question was what would Collaros have done if he was QB for the Argos Monday, and I said he would have bought more time by rolling out of the pocket more, and he would have gained more yards rushing than Ricky did. Surely nobody would disagree with this.

And as I said, he probably would have had similar results that he had in week 1 in Saskatchewan where he was constantly harrassed.

[Rich]

If the team is healthy this isn't even a close call between Ray and Collaros.

I might even agree with you at this particular point in time, but given the trajectory of Collaros' improvement, it will be a different story in two years' time IMO.

[Rich]

And as I said, he probably would have had similar results that he had in week 1 in Saskatchewan where he was constantly harrassed.

Not only was Collaros missing his top two receivers that day, but it was his first start in a brand new system, which hardly makes it a fair comparison.

[1argoholic]

Trying to stay off this site but I just had to post here. WHAT IS EVERYONE WATCHING? Ray didn't just lose all of his talent in the last few weeks. He is playing behind a horrible O line at this point. Even his receivers who were brought in because of injuries are hurt as in Mann. He misses two of the best receivers in the league in Durie and Owens bigtime. Obviously the new guy aren't cutting the mustard and Ray isn't get the time to wait for these guys to get open.
Perhaps it's just a gongshow of a year with mismanagement from the top down as well that plays into things. I thought the year could very well go this way. Too many changes plus too many key injuries on O.
Ray might be done mentally if this continues but he still has what it takes to rip this league to shreds when given the talent to play with.
I like Collaros but he hasn't proven squat yet. I hope he doesn't kill his career like Buck Pierce with the way he plays. We need good young athletic qb's to stay healthy for the good of the league.

By the way the league sucks this year. Only one or two games worth watching all year. Argos are a mess!!!

[argotom]

Some of you have scoffed at FZ reporting pretty much throughout the year.
However, I find he has been on the mark evaluating the team and is no different than today's poignant article.

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/09/02...ainst-the-wall

[gilthethrill]

Trying to stay off this site but I just had to post here. WHAT IS EVERYONE WATCHING? Ray didn't just lose all of his talent in the last few weeks. He is playing behind a horrible O line at this point. Even his receivers who were brought in because of injuries are hurt as in Mann. He misses two of the best receivers in the league in Durie and Owens bigtime. Obviously the new guy aren't cutting the mustard and Ray isn't get the time to wait for these guys to get open.
Perhaps it's just a gongshow of a year with mismanagement from the top down as well that plays into things. I thought the year could very well go this way. Too many changes plus too many key injuries on O.
Ray might be done mentally if this continues but he still has what it takes to rip this league to shreds when given the talent to play with.
I like Collaros but he hasn't proven squat yet. I hope he doesn't kill his career like Buck Pierce with the way he plays. We need good young athletic qb's to stay healthy for the good of the league.

By the way the league sucks this year. Only one or two games worth watching all year. Argos are a mess!!!

Welcome back! No, Ray has not lost his talent in the last few weeks. All these injuries have had a ripple effect on Ray as well as the O-line right down the the offensive coaching staff. Let's see what happens when Ray does not have a pre-season receiving core to work with.

But yes, sadly our beloved Argos are a mess....

[argonaut11xx]

you would have noticed how many passes hit receivers right in the hands and were dropped.

Paul is bang on with his comment above. (See Darvin Adams especially)

Even Doug Flutie would struggle playing with this "cast of characters" we call an offense. So saying collaros would be doing better is misguided.

I'd suggest ANYONE who blames Ricky Ray for the terrible offensive output this season is drinking very bad tequila while watching the games.

1Argoholic is also correct about how "bad" the CFL has been this season in terms of the over quailty of games, the last time i recall the league being this terrible was maybe watching the Shreveport Pirates.