September 13, 2014: Toronto Argonauts vs. Calgary Stampeders

[AngeloV]

So we're not winning because of poor pep talks and Ricky Ray not doing enough.

Today I got dumber from reading this forum.

Don't sell yourself short there big guy. LOL!!

Whether it was the very conservative play calling by the OC or whatever, I was surprised that RR was not vertical in the second half until the last drive.
Especially since he was lights out and the 4 TD passes were over the top in the first half.

And if you were as attentive as you claim to be, over the years that Rich Stubler was the Argos D-coordinator, you would have realized that his defence is designed to not give up the big play. Just because the Argos had a couple of deeper gains in the first half (likely on defensive breakdowns), doesn't mean that they were there in the 2nd half. Ray is a true QB that throws the ball according to what the defence does. Sometimes it requires some missed tackles by the opposing team, but he makes the right read on I would say 90% of the plays.

[argonaut11xx]

he makes the right read on I would say 90% of the plays.

That pretty much ends the discussion....what more can you ask of your QB?

[argotom]

And if you were as attentive as you claim to be, over the years that Rich Stubler was the Argos D-coordinator, you would have realized that his defence is designed to not give up the big play. Just because the Argos had a couple of deeper gains in the first half (likely on defensive breakdowns), doesn't mean that they were there in the 2nd half. Ray is a true QB that throws the ball according to what the defence does. Sometimes it requires some missed tackles by the opposing team, but he makes the right read on I would say 90% of the plays.

And if you are perceptive as you claim to be, you also know for every adjustment the Defense makes the Offense must do likewise to counteract.
If Stubler took away the mid to long range stuff, well then it was up to the OC or our QB to hit with the underneath stuff and the running game.
Neither occurred, we had no running game and could not move the ball.
Check mate Stamps.

[AngeloV]

And if you are perceptive as you claim to be, you also know for every adjustment the Defense makes the Offense must do likewise to counteract.
If Stubler took away the mid to long range stuff, well then it was up to the OC or our QB to hit with the underneath stuff and the running game.
Neither occurred, we had no running game and could not move the ball.
Check mate Stamps.

They were going underneath. And they FUMBLED. And they took a 25 yard disqualification penalty. And they got sacked. And a facemask penalty against Ray which would have gotten them out of bad field position was missed. And most importantly, Ray was kept off the field because the Argos couldn't stop the direct snap to Cornish.

Honestly...what F'n game were you watching?

[D-Gap-Willie]

I am completely mystified by the direction of this discussion. If the offence had scored 16 points in the 1st half and 17 points in the 2nd, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The simple truth is that, despite several glaring mistakes and too many penalties, the offence put up 33 points. This is more than enough to win, unless the defence gives up more than 200 yards rushing.

The front seven of the Argos were manhandled by the Stamps offence - you can't blame that on Ricky Ray, or even the reluctant running of Slaton. Zero sacks, a general lack of aggressiveness, no leadership, no effective stunts/schemes - I won't go on. Harrell was missed - Whiteside and Laing both seem to be declining ( dinged?) - all I can say about Emry is "not as advertised either in performance or leadership".

Ricky Ray did not give up 40 points !! - the defence is going downhill, with Harris and Logan waiting in the wings. Time for some drastic improvement, starting with Burke getting his derriere out of the press box and down where he can at least give some moral support to his troops.

[Argo]

I am completely mystified by the direction of this discussion. If the offence had scored 16 points in the 1st half and 17 points in the 2nd, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The simple truth is that, despite several glaring mistakes and too many penalties, the offence put up 33 points. This is more than enough to win, unless the defence gives up more than 200 yards rushing.

The front seven of the Argos were manhandled by the Stamps offence - you can't blame that on Ricky Ray, or even the reluctant running of Slaton. Zero sacks, a general lack of aggressiveness, no leadership, no effective stunts/schemes - I won't go on. Harrell was missed - Whiteside and Laing both seem to be declining ( dinged?) - all I can say about Emry is "not as advertised either in performance or leadership".

Ricky Ray did not give up 40 points !! - the defence is going downhill, with Harris and Logan waiting in the wings. Time for some drastic improvement, starting with Burke getting his derriere out of the press box and down where he can at least give some moral support to his troops.

I mostly agree with your post, particularly its shining of a harsh, revealing, light upon the Argos' D.
The almost complete ineffectiveness, demonstrated once again, of the Argos' O in the second half should not escape criticism.
It yet might be fair to say, though, that (ultimately) a fumbler effectively snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Blue90]

I am completely mystified by the direction of this discussion. If the offence had scored 16 points in the 1st half and 17 points in the 2nd, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The simple truth is that, despite several glaring mistakes and too many penalties, the offence put up 33 points. This is more than enough to win, unless the defence gives up more than 200 yards rushing.

The front seven of the Argos were manhandled by the Stamps offence - you can't blame that on Ricky Ray, or even the reluctant running of Slaton. Zero sacks, a general lack of aggressiveness, no leadership, no effective stunts/schemes - I won't go on. Harrell was missed - Whiteside and Laing both seem to be declining ( dinged?) - all I can say about Emry is "not as advertised either in performance or leadership".

Ricky Ray did not give up 40 points !! - the defence is going downhill, with Harris and Logan waiting in the wings. Time for some drastic improvement, starting with Burke getting his derriere out of the press box and down where he can at least give some moral support to his troops.

Well said. The defence on this team is terrible. They can't stop the run and they can't stop the pass. They can't stop first string QBs and they can't stop backup QBs. Shea Emry is invisible, he may as well watch the game from the sidelines.

Defence wins championships. This team has no defence.

[Double Dare]

So we're not winning because of poor pep talks and Ricky Ray not doing enough.

Today I got dumber from reading this forum.

It is not rocket science ... it is just a sport after all.

It's not just about the pep talks ... that is just one negative facet of Milanovich.

[gilthethrill]

Well said. The defence on this team is terrible. They can't stop the run and they can't stop the pass. They can't stop first string QBs and they can't stop backup QBs. Shea Emry is invisible, he may as well watch the game from the sidelines.

Defence wins championships. This team has no defence.

In defence of the D, they were called upon to stop Calgary after the O turned the ball over, creating a short field. They also had a short field to defend after Slaton dug the O a hole deep in Argo territory. In short, they cannot continue to turn the darn ball over & expect to win. Did anyone see how they played in the first half? Heck, they even knocked out the starting QB. Calgary was allowed to get on a roll after half time...I am not sure any team could have stopped them.

[D-Gap-Willie]

In defence of the D, they were called upon to stop Calgary after the O turned the ball over, creating a short field. They also had a short field to defend after Slaton dug the O a hole deep in Argo territory. In short, they cannot continue to turn the darn ball over & expect to win. Did anyone see how they played in the first half? Heck, they even knocked out the starting QB. Calgary was allowed to get on a roll after half time...I am not sure any team could have stopped them.

In the normal ebb and flow of a football game, there are usually 2 or 3 instances where the O will put the D in a bad spot, and conversely usually 2 or 3 instances where the D sets the O up in great position, or even scores some points themselves. That's what 'give away/take away' is all about.

I agree that the O put the D in two bad spots as you mentioned, but the D did not reciprocate by setting the O up with some good spots. It was a very bad game for the D against the run, but that alone did not lose the game -- the loss was very much a team effort, as football usually is.

My main point was that you can't blame the offence, and particularly Ricky Ray for the loss -- 33 points should be good enough to win.

[Mulder]

In the normal ebb and flow of a football game, there are usually 2 or 3 instances where the O will put the D in a bad spot, and conversely usually 2 or 3 instances where the D sets the O up in great position, or even scores some points themselves. That's what 'give away/take away' is all about.

I agree that the O put the D in two bad spots as you mentioned, but the D did not reciprocate by setting the O up with some good spots. It was a very bad game for the D against the run, but that alone did not lose the game -- the loss was very much a team effort, as football usually is.

My main point was that you can't blame the offence, and particularly Ricky Ray for the loss -- 33 points should be good enough to win.

There was some questionable decisions by Ray I thought. Second and Long in the shadow of his goal posts and he dumps it off. Now I can't see what he saw all the receivers were likely covered. That one stands out for me however as we needed to get some momentum back.

It was pretty clear at the end of the 2nd the Calgary has seized it.

[gilthethrill]

In the normal ebb and flow of a football game, there are usually 2 or 3 instances where the O will put the D in a bad spot, and conversely usually 2 or 3 instances where the D sets the O up in great position, or even scores some points themselves. That's what 'give away/take away' is all about.

I agree that the O put the D in two bad spots as you mentioned, but the D did not reciprocate by setting the O up with some good spots. It was a very bad game for the D against the run, but that alone did not lose the game -- the loss was very much a team effort, as football usually is.

My main point was that you can't blame the offence, and particularly Ricky Ray for the loss -- 33 points should be good enough to win.

I thought Ray was great that game, he can only do so much. I hope I did not come across as blaming him. I disagree about the D not setting up the O with good spots (see Gabriel int). However, the loss for sure was a total team effort...squeezed into the last 30 minutes.

[Will]

I said to myself when Calgary scored the TD before the half that they were coming back.

[dmont]

.

I have only just calmed down enough to read and reply to this topic.

At least our O-line played pretty well. Compared to previous games, I don't think Ricky was especially rushed. It seems a healthy Rogers is a necessary (if not sufficient) condition for our O-line to have a good game. I hope he and the rest stay healthy.

The blame for that loss falls on the defense. D-line and linebackers couldn't do anything against the run, and that opened up the rest of the field. I didn't notice McCollough doing anything wrong, but I wasn't impressed with Suber at all. He's small and slow. He couldn't catch a much larger Cornish, and I remember him getting burned a few times. He also caught a break when his man let a ball bounce off his shoulder pads. He's new, and I hope he's just adjusting to the system, but overall it was a lousy performance.

Coming in second place in the blame game is the receivers. Nobody on this team knows how to both a) get open, and b) be in a meaningful place on the field when it happens. How do you beat up the Calgary defense for a half of football, and then get so completely owned in the other half? We need Owens back right away, and then we need to address the systematic problem with our receivers. Everyone's piling on Brazill for his fumbles (really, who hasn't fumbled this year?) but he led the team in catches so at least he's able to get open.

I don't usually comment on the play calling because I assume I don't know what I'm talking about, but I don't understand why they don't mix in the run more. It's not that I think our RBs are any good, I just think it might keep the opposing defenses a little more honest, maybe free up our football-challenged receivers. I'm torn about releasing Slaton. I don't want to rush to judgment on that stupid penalty, but he hasn't produced very much given the chances he's had. Is Cory Boyd still living in Toronto?

Overall, that game was a humiliating experience. And that was just from WATCHING the game; I bet the players feel even worse. Blowing a 26-point lead is an embarrassment.

[Mulder]

I said to myself when Calgary scored the TD before the half that they were coming back.

http://www.argofans.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post52832

[ArgoRavi]

I said to myself when Calgary scored the TD before the half that they were coming back.

When the Argos had a 26 point lead, I still didn't feel secure. I pretty much assumed that Calgary would make some kind of a comeback but I thought that the Argos had built up a large enough lead that they could hold them off.

[argolio]

It's not just about the pep talks ... that is just one negative facet of Milanovich.

So it's not about the pep talks, but it is about the pep talks. Gotcha!

[1argoholic]

I've got a pep talk. This site is as lame as shite!!!!! I'm totally sick of the Nazi Way! Delete anything that doesn't follow the script of just a few who run the Nazi Forum. Screw this place!

[argotom]

They were going underneath. And they FUMBLED. And they took a 25 yard disqualification penalty. And they got sacked. And a facemask penalty against Ray which would have gotten them out of bad field position was missed. And most importantly, Ray was kept off the field because the Argos couldn't stop the direct snap to Cornish.

Honestly...what F'n game were you watching?

Definitely we are not watching the same game.
Unlike you, I am not satisfied with the D who gave up a ton of points in the second half and also not satisfied with the offense that can only score 4 points.
A combination of both spells doom for any team that cannot provide a balanced 60 minutes.
Like I have been saying throughout, this was a tale of 2 games and it was for the taking against the Stamps who were on the ropes and we let them come up off the canvas.

[ArgoZ]

Definitely we are not watching the same game.
Unlike you, I am not satisfied with the D who gave up a ton of points in the second half and also not satisfied with the offense that can only score 4 points.
A combination of both spells doom for any team that cannot provide a balanced 60 minutes.
Like I have been saying throughout, this was a tale of 2 games and it was for the taking against the Stamps who were on the ropes and we let them come up off the canvas.

Unlike you? LOL, this poster sure doesn't know how to talk to people. Captain obvious tries to defend himself with points that are irrelevant to the actual topic debated. It's humorous to watch him dig his hole deeper. I do agree that the defense let the Argos down, but Ray doesn't play D, so it's hard to fault him for that.