PTS just now. McGown and Brunt are confident........

[VANRIDERFAN]

.... that the Argos are toast. That MLSE does not want them and that Braley will throw the keys to the League to figure out.

Since I am an outsider, how close are these two to the truth? I am really concerned for the future of your team.

[Will]

I just listened to the segment myself. It was supposed to be about their employers' failure to purchase the Buffalo Bills, but instead seemed to focus on the Argonauts. They've been on the "No MLSE, No BMO" party line for quite awhile. It is difficult to say because McCown didn't really cite a source for saying that Braley is about to hand the keys over to the CFL. I don't think anyone is in denial about the unfortunate situation the Argonauts are in, but you'll find that many are still skeptical of anything a Rogers employee says about the Canadian Football League.

[johnnyice]

I don't think anyone is in denial about the unfortunate situation the Argonauts are in, but you'll find that many are still skeptical of anything a Rogers employee says about the Canadian Football League.

Absolutely correct !

[Fumblitis]

Is there a link to that segment?

[Will]

Is there a link to that segment?

Probably will be soon enough. Just hold tight for awhile and someone ought to post it.

[R.J]

PTS September 10th 5pm hour.
skip ahead to 40:35
http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/p...r-10---5pm.mp3

[Fumblitis]

PTS September 10th 5pm hour.
skip ahead to 40:35
http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/p...r-10---5pm.mp3

Thanks! You know you would think that losing the NFL dream that they want to watch some sort of professional football. It seems like the media in Toronto is even more hostile towards the CFL now. Even when Tim and Sid interviewing that reporter from Buffalo yesterday they were grilling this guy about how the possibility that Pegula could sell the team in the future. As I was watching the video footage of this interview Tim and Sid looked
dejected as they just lost out on the only possibility they ever had for Toronto to have the NFL. Even the write up in the Globe and Mail today the guy had to take shots at Terry Pegula about how poorly the Sabres are on ice and how bad the Bills will be because he's bitter because the Bills we're staying put and not coming to Toronto.

[ArgoRavi]

Even when Tim and Sid interviewing that reporter from Buffalo yesterday they were grilling this guy about how the possibility that Pegula could sell the team in the future. As I was watching the video footage of this interview Tim and Sid looked
dejected as they just lost out on the only possibility they ever had for Toronto to have the NFL.

While you never want to say never, the reality is that the NFL in Toronto people have probably blown the best chance that they have ever had and may have for a very long time. That is probably why they were looking so sullen. Furthermore, people like Tim and Sid, Eric Smith, and Greg Brady see the NFL as their entree into the media "big leagues". They are well aware, for instance, of the great press box food that they get in the NFL. Now it seems unlikely that they will ever get a chance to enjoy that sort of thing unless Rogers sends them to cover an NFL game in the U.S.

I hate to say it, but as a former person in the biz, I think the above is becoming truer all the time. The problem isn't so much what is being reported but what isn't. Sins of omission not commission.

I for one thought Brunt was the best thing since sliced bread but since going to Rogers I have changed my opinion. And it is not because I disagree with him. It's more like they know what they can say and what they can't and they choose to take the company position.

Brunt has to be feeling a little embarrassed these days as he was the leading voice in the Toronto sports media corps about how the Bills were almost certainly moving to Toronto after people lined up for blocks for tickets to the Bills in Toronto series. He couldn't be more wrong on both counts and it has to hurt.

I used to like him at the Globe and Mail and am pretty sure that I defended him in the past when he worked for that newspaper. However, he is a different reporter/columnist now since he moved to Rogers and has much less credibility in my books. BTW, it isn't like the Bills to Toronto thing is the first big thing that he has gotten wrong. Brunt had the CFL pretty much killed off just prior to the '96 Grey Cup (although, in fairness, others did too).

[argofandave]

I learned 25 years ago when SkyDome opened that NFL fans in the Toronto area believe that the only professional football worth watching is the NFL. They absolutely believe that the only thing stopping the NFL from putting a team in Toronto is the existence of the Argos and the sooner the Argos die, the sooner an NFL team will come to Toronto. Somewhere in this forum, I posted an article from the Toronto Sun and written in 1989 by Steve Simmons who called for a boycott of Argo games in order to kill the Argos and get an NFL team in Toronto.

[Fumblitis]

I learned 25 years ago when SkyDome opened that NFL fans in the Toronto area believe that the only professional football worth watching is the NFL. They absolutely believe that the only thing stopping the NFL from putting a team in Toronto is the existence of the Argos and the sooner the Argos die, the sooner an NFL team will come to Toronto. Somewhere in this forum, I posted an article from the Toronto Sun and written in 1989 by Steve Simmons who called for a boycott of Argo games in order to kill the Argos and get an NFL team in Toronto.

The logic is mind boggling. One of the many reasons Winnipeg got the Jets back was because of the tremendous support of the Manitoba Moose of the AHL prior to that proved that Winnipeg was starved for pro hockey.

[Neely2005]

The logic is mind boggling. One of the many reasons Winnipeg got the Jets back was because of the tremendous support of the Manitoba Moose of the AHL prior to that proved that Winnipeg was starved for pro hockey.

And where are the Manitoba Moose today?

[Stouffvillain]

I learned 25 years ago when SkyDome opened that NFL fans in the Toronto area believe that the only professional football worth watching is the NFL. They absolutely believe that the only thing stopping the NFL from putting a team in Toronto is the existence of the Argos and the sooner the Argos die, the sooner an NFL team will come to Toronto. Somewhere in this forum, I posted an article from the Toronto Sun and written in 1989 by Steve Simmons who called for a boycott of Argo games in order to kill the Argos and get an NFL team in Toronto.

This is the sad truth for the majority in the GTA. Most people in the area only will go to things if they are the "best of the best". It's why attendance for OHL games in city's like Brampton were so low that the team had to leave. It's the same reason why TFC has to bring in guys like Jermain Defoe to bump up ticket sales. It's the same situation that faces the Argos day in and day out.

Most people want to see the highest level or don't want to go at all.

[Mulder]

There is a lot of truth to what Lawless says. The CFL could operate without TO but at a reduced income from TV. When Lawless says the "other eight teams" would have to run the Argos if Braley walks away, is he sure BC would kick in money to do so. Unless Cohon has the power to use TV money from the other teams to prop up the Argos some of the other owners might not be that willing to subsidize them. However, Braley could be thinking it would be better to a one 8th owner short term instead of footing the full bill.
To me it looks like a standoff between Braley and MLSE to see who will blink first. Maybe if former CFL Commissioner John Tory gets in as Mayor of TO ad Mark Cohon becomes CEO of MLSE things will get ironed out. A lot of maybe's but we can Hope.

You would think he'd have to just go along with what the board room says/does. It's sort of a conflict of interest.

I suggested a temporary stadium only if the BMO relocation fell through, to keep the franchise in the GTA while a permanent stadium is completed. The Lions and Whitecaps could have left Vancouver and played in Bellingham or Kelowna, like the Ticats did in Guelph, but the province decided to build a temporary facility. Not the solution but a stopgap measure.

Empire Field had many endzone seats because the province chose a European company as the builder which specialized in soccer stadiums, where they often have lots of endzone seating. The soccer Whitecaps also shared the temp stadium while the $560M upgrade to B.C. Place was completed.

The Argos could instead choose a football-specific design with mostly sideline seating if they (or the league, city or province) are required to provide a temp stadium to keep the Argos in the GTA. I'd also suggest the Argos choose wider seats, the Empire Field seats were obviously designed for more-compact European derriere's, not the more expansive N.A. model.

Contrary to Brunt's repeated assertion that the Argos are "worthless", if the Argos franchise moved to another city (London, Quebec, Halifax) this would save the new city a $15-$20M expansion fee, plus they'd be getting a fully stocked-team, management and equipment. That has value. Just like a football franchise which has been in continuous operation for 142 years, has value, even if they've lost money for the past 25 years playing out of a shopping mall.

Comes down to the end result of who runs the media in Toronto. They are "worth-less" than they should be because of a series of shooting themselves in the foot, and consistent media negativity from one of the controlling entities

Just a guess but Brunt's selling out to Rogers has to do with that magazine (does anyone actually buy it) Brunt took his payout from the Globe and , as a serious writer, obviously he would want a creative outlet.
If I recall way back when he waxed nostaligic on the radio about Sports Illustrated from previous decades when serious writers wrote long thoughtful articles (as opposed to the short, glib and more visual magaiznes of today).

I beleive the magazine aspect won over Brunt and as an employee he has to toe the corporate line and that is fight TSN and their big monopoly which is the CFL and run them out of Canada' biggest sports market.

Many people get it free with their Rogers subscription. Not so strange that it's full Rogers advertisements. Another source for shifting money around in the company

This is the sad truth for the majority in the GTA. Most people in the area only will go to things if they are the "best of the best". It's why attendance for OHL games in city's like Brampton were so low that the team had to leave. It's the same reason why TFC has to bring in guys like Jermain Defoe to bump up ticket sales. It's the same situation that faces the Argos day in and day out.

Most people want to see the highest level or don't want to go at all.

Toronto is a leafs town, and an event town. Not a sports town.

[argotom]

As some one said on another board McClown is a joke and his sidekick Brunt is no better.
Why do we keep quoting these idiots as the league and Argo bashing is way over the top?

[AngeloV]

Well that's what happens when the TIFF crowd all of the sudden turn their attention to sports. They know nothing about it, but think they do.

Unfortunately, that is what Toronto has become.

[Qman]

why even listen to McClown anymore. What's with brunt .. he's turned into ed rogers bitch ... in fact all the reporter that have moved over their have lost all their credibility.

[rdavies]

why even listen to McClown anymore. What's with brunt .. he's turned into ed rogers bitch ... in fact all the reporter that have moved over their have lost all their credibility.

I hate to say it, but as a former person in the biz, I think the above is becoming truer all the time. The problem isn't so much what is being reported but what isn't. Sins of omission not commission.

I for one thought Brunt was the best thing since sliced bread but since going to Rogers I have changed my opinion. And it is not because I disagree with him. It's more like they know what they can say and what they can't and they choose to take the company position.

[Invader]

McClown claimed some anonymous Rogers employee emailed him the gate count of an Argo game earlier this season...of 9,500. Then Rash contradicted him in a tweet a few days later, that there were only 6,500 in attendance. Another example was Damien Cox saying on PTS the day after GC100 that the Argos averaged only 13,000 fans in 2012 and claimed to have some inside knowledge, nodding his head smiling, saying "I know!" That was the same show where PTS theorized Braley was on the take and used his political influence to get rich off the CFL. Let's also not forget the series of angry tweets from Rash after the CBA was ratified, claiming the CFL had no right to exist (paying its players so little, risking concussions.)

Commissioner Cohon's image took a big hit in the media during the CBA, along with the CFL (which may have precipiatated Cohon's decision to leave)...mainly from Rogers employees and their media friends (remember SportsNets slickly-produced graph charts comparing CFL and NFL salaries?) The CFL was portrayed as a cheapie, skinflint operation, which may have adversely affected fan support across the country this season.

Always consider the source (or lack thereof) when reading about the Argos. Did Milanovich really say he wants to quit the team because of ownership and stadium issues? If true, wouldn't that undermine his position with his players this season ("I still want you guys to go out and work hard and stuff, but me? I'm outta here!" ) That Milanovich "rumour" has been widely quoted in media across Canada, naming "sources." I guess we don't have to look very far to reveal the "sources" of these negative Argo stories.

[Mulder]

Which gives further to the speculation that the only reason why MLSE hasn't bought the Argos is because of Rogers.

[DoubleBlue1873]

I am really disappointed with Stephen Brunt. When he was with the Globe, he was a thinking man's sportswriter, describing the culture and spirit of the game more than the play on the field. He used to write in almost reverential terms about the CFL's history, its place in the national psyche, its uniqueness in the wide world of sports. But then, around the time the Bills in Toronto series was starting up, he started to write about the Bills coming to Toronto as nothing short of an inevitability, based on the fact that Ralph Wilson was old, would die someday, and all the money was in corporate Toronto. And then he started working for Rogers and it's been nothing but doom and gloom about the Argos and CFL ever since.

Nice to see him proven wrong, even if we can't completely exclude the possibility of the NFL moving in at some undefined point in the future. And I continue to maintain that all CFL fans should boycott Rogers to emphasize that their courting of the NFL at all costs ends up costing them a lot of business.