PTS just now. McGown and Brunt are confident........

[Invader]

The facts are it's looking very grim right now no matter who talks about it.
Some people want to blame the previous owners C&S. But I remember reading that C&S were committed to York, Varsity, or the eventual BMO field.
But they were convinced by Braley and his cash handouts to stay at the dome. If this is true then Mr. Braley needs to get this sorted out before he walks away.

I know MLSE my not want to buy the team, but why doesn't Bell just buy them. A healthy Toronto team only helps their TSN property.
And can the city force MLSE to make BMO accommodate football as well??

I don't agree the Argo fortunes are grim. They just moved into a new training centre and practice facility in Downsview this week, which has a picture-perfect fieldturf field. So no longer can they claim the Argos are "nomadic".

The Argos have a contract to play in Skydome through 2017, so that's 3 more years after this 2014 season. Braley said relocation talks with MLSE will resume soon. There was a tweet last night that MLSE has opened the door again and that they could be close to agreement. So there is no panic and it's not looking grim.

If the talks with MLSE fall through (despite MLSE being directed by the City of Toronto to accommodate the Argos at BMO and forwarding $10 million towards the project), then the Argos will have to find somewhere else to play.

Braley's Lions built a 27,500-seat temporary stadium in Vancouver for $15 million (it was actually paid for by the province), which they played out of for 2 seasons. The builder said the stadium could be made permanent with concrete foundations. All the Argos need is a municipality to donate the land and some infrastructure.

Another option might be to construct grandstands at the Argos new practice field in Downsview? This would be an easy build and looks like the site was designed for that upgrade from the outset. There is also York's Pan-Am stadium which could be expanded. So all hope is not lost.

[Mulder]

I have been wondering the same thing, Antwon. I am not sure why Bell doesn't just step up on its own and buy the team.

Bell on it's own likely doesn't have the experience to run a pro sports organization.

It also comes with the question: Why don't you let the sports and entertainment company you own run the Argos?

It would be cheaper for Bell if MLSE owned/Ran them as opposed to setting up a new division in a company. This is why we know Rogers is the one blocking this deal.

I don't agree the Argo fortunes are grim. They just moved into a new training centre and practice facility in Downsview this week, which has a picture-perfect fieldturf field. So no longer can they claim the Argos are "nomadic".

The Argos have a contract to play in Skydome through 2017, so that's 3 more years after this 2014 season. Braley said relocation talks with MLSE will resume soon. There was a tweet last night that MLSE has opened the door again and that they could be close to agreement. So there is no panic and it's not looking grim.

If the talks with MLSE fall through (despite MLSE being directed by the City of Toronto to accommodate the Argos at BMO and forwarding $10 million towards the project), then the Argos will have to find somewhere else to play.

Braley's Lions built a 27,500-seat temporary stadium in Vancouver for $15 million (it was actually paid for by the province), which they played out of for 2 seasons. The builder said the stadium could be made permanent with concrete foundations. All the Argos need is a municipality to donate the land and some infrastructure.

Another option might be to construct grandstands at the Argos new practice field in Downsview? This would be an easy build and looks like the site was designed for that upgrade from the outset. There is also York's Pan-Am stadium which could be expanded. So all hope is not lost.

Paulwoods will tell you that temporary structure used by BC wasn't that great. Majority of seats behind the endzone.

I do agree that while we see the David Braley ownership as grim. There is positive steps for the Argos with the new training facility & stadium talks.

[matthew]

I was with you until the temp stadium part. I went twice to that stadium twice and as nice and kitchy as it was, no way is that a viable solution in the long-term.

[Qman]

I was with you until the temp stadium part. I went twice to that stadium twice and as nice and kitchy as it was, no way is that a viable solution in the long-term.

time is NOW to put up the $10m to knockdown the south and north stands at bmo, while they are construction the new eaststands at bmo over the winter. Just then to build locker rooms and put down fieldturf endzones and we are set. We can't last another crappy year at the crappy skydome with a terrible schedule again.

I'd happy volunteer my couple thousand hours as a heavy equipment operator. Lets Go!!!!

[Ballstothewall]

The facts are it's looking very grim right now no matter who talks about it.
Some people want to blame the previous owners C&S. But I remember reading that C&S were committed to York, Varsity, or the eventual BMO field.
But they were convinced by Braley and his cash handouts to stay at the dome. If this is true then Mr. Braley needs to get this sorted out before he walks away.

I know MLSE my not want to buy the team, but why doesn't Bell just buy them. A healthy Toronto team only helps their TSN property.
And can the city force MLSE to make BMO accommodate football as well??

That was C/S that screwed the Argos over for a new stadiun. They were all set to go with York, when Paul Godfrey, waved a nice new Dome lease at them. Free rent and 18Cents a beer. Once that lease was over after 4 years, they dumped the team and the Argos are stuck with paying the highest rent in the league, with the worst avalabe dates. At 75,000 per game, i wager there are some games, the Argos don't even cover the cost of the rent. C/S went for short term gain. What did they care, as we find out now, Braily was still paying all the bills then too

[Mulder]

time is NOW to put up the $10m to knockdown the south and north stands at bmo, while they are construction the new eaststands at bmo over the winter. Just then to build locker rooms and put down fieldturf endzones and we are set. We can't last another crappy year at the crappy skydome with a terrible schedule again.

I'd happy volunteer my couple thousand hours as a heavy equipment operator. Lets Go!!!!

There has been a rumour floating around that CFL wasn't happy with the available dates given by Rogers Centre, and the CFL is looking at expediting the phasing to get the Argos in there sooner.

That was C/S that screwed the Argos over for a new stadiun. They were all set to go with York, when Paul Godfrey, waved a nice new Dome lease at them. Free rent and 18Cents a beer. Once that lease was over after 4 years, they dumped the team and the Argos are stuck with paying the highest rent in the league, with the worst avalabe dates. At 75,000 per game, i wager there are some games, the Argos don't even cover the cost of the rent. C/S went for short term gain. What did they care, as we find out now, Braily was still paying all the bills then too

That's pretty much bang on. But Rogers par for the course.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't agree the Argo fortunes are grim. They just moved into a new training centre and practice facility in Downsview this week, which has a picture-perfect fieldturf field. So no longer can they claim the Argos are "nomadic".

The Argos have a contract to play in Skydome through 2017, so that's 3 more years after this 2014 season. Braley said relocation talks with MLSE will resume soon. There was a tweet last night that MLSE has opened the door again and that they could be close to agreement. So there is no panic and it's not looking grim.

If the talks with MLSE fall through (despite MLSE being directed by the City of Toronto to accommodate the Argos at BMO and forwarding $10 million towards the project), then the Argos will have to find somewhere else to play.

Braley's Lions built a 27,500-seat temporary stadium in Vancouver for $15 million (it was actually paid for by the province), which they played out of for 2 seasons. The builder said the stadium could be made permanent with concrete foundations. All the Argos need is a municipality to donate the land and some infrastructure.

Another option might be to construct grandstands at the Argos new practice field in Downsview? This would be an easy build and looks like the site was designed for that upgrade from the outset. There is also York's Pan-Am stadium which could be expanded. So all hope is not lost.

And we are back to the same problem as to who would pay for any of this? It sure wouldn't be Braley. The only viable solution is getting the Argos into BMO even if it means that the league has to come up with the money to do so itself which is what I suspect will end up happening.

[paulwoods13]

Paulwoods will tell you that temporary structure used by BC wasn't that great. Majority of seats behind the endzone.

That is correct, Mulder. Literally more than half of the seats were behind the goal-lines. No one in their right mind would consider that a remotely viable long-term option.

As for the original post suggesting Braley is prepared to throw the keys back to the CFL, that strikes me as extremely far-fetched for one simple reason. He is also planning to sell the Lions in the next three years. If the preceding franchise transaction was a giveaway for nothing, what does that do to the value of the property he is hoping to make a profit on? Common sense would suggest that giving something away would not enhance the price of essentially the same product being sold later.

[DoubleBlue1873]

I am really disappointed with Stephen Brunt. When he was with the Globe, he was a thinking man's sportswriter, describing the culture and spirit of the game more than the play on the field. He used to write in almost reverential terms about the CFL's history, its place in the national psyche, its uniqueness in the wide world of sports. But then, around the time the Bills in Toronto series was starting up, he started to write about the Bills coming to Toronto as nothing short of an inevitability, based on the fact that Ralph Wilson was old, would die someday, and all the money was in corporate Toronto. And then he started working for Rogers and it's been nothing but doom and gloom about the Argos and CFL ever since.

Nice to see him proven wrong, even if we can't completely exclude the possibility of the NFL moving in at some undefined point in the future. And I continue to maintain that all CFL fans should boycott Rogers to emphasize that their courting of the NFL at all costs ends up costing them a lot of business.

[rdavies]

And I continue to maintain that all CFL fans should boycott Rogers to emphasize that their courting of the NFL at all costs ends up costing them a lot of business.

I do that anyway and encourage everyone I know to do so. I'm not sure about the GTA but where I am they cap your bandwidth and charge for overages, Bell doesn't.

[Fumblitis]

I do that anyway and encourage everyone I know to do so. I'm not sure about the GTA but where I am they cap your bandwidth and charge for overages, Bell doesn't.

I ditched Rogers years ago. Their wireless service sucks in Saskatchewan and more importantly they're trying to kill the CFL.

[Argocister]

I still think that McGowan is making much of this anti-cfl anti-argos stuff up. Brunt too (I really should get around to burning his grey cup book i got with my 2012 tickets)...

Maybe we could have a brunt book burning tailgate .... that would be fun and they would burn better than the bon jovi cds

And once we are out of the dome we could have a "burn everything rogers tailgate" .... that would be even more fun!

[Mulder]

Maybe we could have a brunt book burning tailgate .... that would be fun and they would burn better than the bon jovi cds

And once we are out of the dome we could have a "burn everything rogers tailgate" .... that would be even more fun!

Right at the foot of the Rogers statue?

I am really disappointed with Stephen Brunt. When he was with the Globe, he was a thinking man's sportswriter, describing the culture and spirit of the game more than the play on the field. He used to write in almost reverential terms about the CFL's history, its place in the national psyche, its uniqueness in the wide world of sports. But then, around the time the Bills in Toronto series was starting up, he started to write about the Bills coming to Toronto as nothing short of an inevitability, based on the fact that Ralph Wilson was old, would die someday, and all the money was in corporate Toronto. And then he started working for Rogers and it's been nothing but doom and gloom about the Argos and CFL ever since.

Nice to see him proven wrong, even if we can't completely exclude the possibility of the NFL moving in at some undefined point in the future. And I continue to maintain that all CFL fans should boycott Rogers to emphasize that their courting of the NFL at all costs ends up costing them a lot of business.

I think we can all reflect on Jim Lang and paint a pretty clear picture on what happens at Rogers Media.

He was pretty anti-cfl and anti-argos. Then he got fired from Fan590 and his professed he was a big argo/cfl fan.

[Will]

People knew that Lang was a CFL fan for a long time. He worked as Argo PBP guy at one point and I believe was a poster on 13thman before Rogers got hostile towards the league.

[Invader]

That is correct, Mulder. Literally more than half of the seats were behind the goal-lines. No one in their right mind would consider that a remotely viable long-term option.

As for the original post suggesting Braley is prepared to throw the keys back to the CFL, that strikes me as extremely far-fetched for one simple reason. He is also planning to sell the Lions in the next three years. If the preceding franchise transaction was a giveaway for nothing, what does that do to the value of the property he is hoping to make a profit on? Common sense would suggest that giving something away would not enhance the price of essentially the same product being sold later.

I suggested a temporary stadium only if the BMO relocation fell through, to keep the franchise in the GTA while a permanent stadium is completed. The Lions and Whitecaps could have left Vancouver and played in Bellingham or Kelowna, like the Ticats did in Guelph, but the province decided to build a temporary facility. Not the solution but a stopgap measure.

Empire Field had many endzone seats because the province chose a European company as the builder which specialized in soccer stadiums, where they often have lots of endzone seating. The soccer Whitecaps also shared the temp stadium while the $560M upgrade to B.C. Place was completed.

The Argos could instead choose a football-specific design with mostly sideline seating if they (or the league, city or province) are required to provide a temp stadium to keep the Argos in the GTA. I'd also suggest the Argos choose wider seats, the Empire Field seats were obviously designed for more-compact European derriere's, not the more expansive N.A. model.

Contrary to Brunt's repeated assertion that the Argos are "worthless", if the Argos franchise moved to another city (London, Quebec, Halifax) this would save the new city a $15-$20M expansion fee, plus they'd be getting a fully stocked-team, management and equipment. That has value. Just like a football franchise which has been in continuous operation for 142 years, has value, even if they've lost money for the past 25 years playing out of a shopping mall.

[zontar]

Just a guess but Brunt's selling out to Rogers has to do with that magazine (does anyone actually buy it) Brunt took his payout from the Globe and , as a serious writer, obviously he would want a creative outlet.
If I recall way back when he waxed nostaligic on the radio about Sports Illustrated from previous decades when serious writers wrote long thoughtful articles (as opposed to the short, glib and more visual magaiznes of today).

I beleive the magazine aspect won over Brunt and as an employee he has to toe the corporate line and that is fight TSN and their big monopoly which is the CFL and run them out of Canada' biggest sports market.

[Stouffvillain]

I learned 25 years ago when SkyDome opened that NFL fans in the Toronto area believe that the only professional football worth watching is the NFL. They absolutely believe that the only thing stopping the NFL from putting a team in Toronto is the existence of the Argos and the sooner the Argos die, the sooner an NFL team will come to Toronto. Somewhere in this forum, I posted an article from the Toronto Sun and written in 1989 by Steve Simmons who called for a boycott of Argo games in order to kill the Argos and get an NFL team in Toronto.

This is the sad truth for the majority in the GTA. Most people in the area only will go to things if they are the "best of the best". It's why attendance for OHL games in city's like Brampton were so low that the team had to leave. It's the same reason why TFC has to bring in guys like Jermain Defoe to bump up ticket sales. It's the same situation that faces the Argos day in and day out.

Most people want to see the highest level or don't want to go at all.

[paulwoods13]

I suggested a temporary stadium only if the BMO relocation fell through, to keep the franchise in the GTA while a permanent stadium is completed. The Lions and Whitecaps could have left Vancouver and played in Bellingham or Kelowna, like the Ticats did in Guelph, but the province decided to build a temporary facility. Not the solution but a stopgap measure.

Empire Field had many endzone seats because the province chose a European company as the builder which specialized in soccer stadiums, where they often have lots of endzone seating. The soccer Whitecaps also shared the temp stadium while the $560M upgrade to B.C. Place was completed.

The Argos could instead choose a football-specific design with mostly sideline seating if they (or the league, city or province) are required to provide a temp stadium to keep the Argos in the GTA. I'd also suggest the Argos choose wider seats, the Empire Field seats were obviously designed for more-compact European derriere's, not the more expansive N.A. model.

Contrary to Brunt's repeated assertion that the Argos are "worthless", if the Argos franchise moved to another city (London, Quebec, Halifax) this would save the new city a $15-$20M expansion fee, plus they'd be getting a fully stocked-team, management and equipment. That has value. Just like a football franchise which has been in continuous operation for 142 years, has value, even if they've lost money for the past 25 years playing out of a shopping mall.

How can you continue to cling to the absurd notion that a stadium is going to be built from scratch? Who's the sugar daddy? I seriously want an answer to this. I won't insist on an answer to who is going to "require" government to build a temp stadium as well.

[AngeloV]

How can you continue to cling to the absurd notion that a stadium is going to be built from scratch? Who's the sugar daddy? I seriously want an answer to this. I won't insist on an answer to who is going to "require" government to build a temp stadium as well.

Stop picking on David Braley's PR man. I think he's hoping to get into the will.

[ArgoRavi]

Here is a fine column from the Winnipeg Free Press' Gary Lawless (a former Argo employee) about how the CFL losing the Argos is simply not an option: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spo...urce=d-tiles-1