CIS Football blowouts--time for a 2 tier system?

[AngeloV]

Seeing some of the results coming out of the CIS the last few years is frankly, becoming very embarrassing. There are way too many blowouts happening, and I am of the opinion that the CIS needs to look at going to a tier system. I'm sure the players on the lesser teams can't be enjoying losing by 30..40..50...60 and even 70 points. We all complained when the OUA coverage was dropped this year, but it's tough to keep an audience with some of the games that have been going on.

18 of 44 games have been decided by at least 30 points this year, and 6 more by at least 19 points.

Below are some scores from games this season (games decided by 30 or more points):



Laurier 53, U of T17
Calgary 71, Alberta 3
Guelph 50, U of T 18
McMaster 66, Waterloo 0
Western 61 York 0
Cocordia 41, Mcgill 7
Montreal 41, Bishop's 7
Laurier 44, Waterloo 0
Western 43, Queen's 12
Laval 43, Sherbrooke 1
U of T 70, York 0
Calgary 59, UBC 11
Mt A 39, SMU 8
Windsor 63, Waterloo 4
Laval 72, Bishop's 15
Guelph 66, Queen's 0
McMaster 49, York 2
Western 63, U of T 15

[ArgoRavi]

Jeff Cummins said recently that you pretty much know already who is going to win three of the four conferences - Western, Laval and Calgary. He might get a bit of an argument about Western as McMaster could conceivably win that conference but his point is correct that, barring a huge upset, there isn't much drama in the CIS football standings these days.

[gilthethrill]

I was contemplating to going to Waterloo yesterday to see them play Windsor, but I already knew it would be a one sided game. I thought what's the point?

[ArgoGabe22]

I was contemplating to going to Waterloo yesterday to see them play Windsor, but I already knew it would be a one sided game. I thought what's the point?

People keep bugging me to come watch a York home game but for the same reason as you gil, I would rather not.

[Argocister]

2 tiers .... Easier said than done .
Perhaps the top teams of the country could withdraw from the CIS and play amongst themselves .... Laval, Calgary , Western .... perhaps Guelph,Montreal,Mac maybe up and coming Carleton. (in effect those with $)
There would be a number of repercussions though .... will some teams fold as their team cannot recruit?
If you have cross country competition, they would require the TV revenues .... right now the CIS has an all encompassing TV contract so that all teams are given exposure on the TV including volleyball, badminton etc. Would an elite league take the time and monies away from the CIS

The benefit of the existing situation is that each team has a chance to get to the playoffs .... maybe not every year, but every few. This provides each school ( in general) with some promise for players. They can get their education and still play football. Some prefer to play at the middle of the road bunch, as they can gain more playing time. The CFL needs more competition for the national players. We need more opportunities for them not less. Its always expected that the Calgary or Laval teams provide more players to the CFL. It is interesting to see some smaller schools providing good players as well .... Bishops or MtA or Windsor

The teams also vary from year to year. .... Who would ever put Queens in the second tier .... although this year they may be considered that.
Last year Concordia was at the bottom of the league and Bishops were in second ..... ConU got some new coaches .... BU lost 21 starters ...

I think what they need to do is do a 2 tier style schedule. Where the bottom half one year plays each other more often and maybe one or 2 games from the top half. Similarly with the top half of the standings. This still would allow teams to flucuate in the standings over the years. And would provide incentives for teams to put an effort into their football teams. .... And for those schools that are not interested in putting monies into their football team, then they can wallow in the bottom of the standings. ( there are actually some schools that want to limit the $ allowed for football teams.... you know ..... balance the competition to the lowest common denominator ...not good for Canadian football and this may just push a few teams out of the CIS )

The other option that would be good for the league, is have more crossover games. CW against OUA or the Q; AUS could definitely benefit from crossover with OUA.

As a supporter of CIS football, check out the standings, pick a more competitive game and go to one of the games in your local .... they need the fan support just as much as the Argos do

[shayman]

Laurier 53, U of T 17
Guelph 50, U of T 18
Western 63, U of T 15
... and also ...
U of T 70, York 0

Maybe we need a *three* tier system :-)

[Will]

I go to Schulich (part of York, but we don't want to admit it) and, yeah, there's no way I'm going to go watch the Lions get blown out by at least 50.

[shayman]

I think what they need to do is do a 2 tier style schedule. Where the bottom half one year plays each other more often and maybe one or 2 games from the top half.

The OUAA did exactly this in 1980. Western, Laurier, Windsor and Toronto were the top half; Waterloo, Guelph, McMaster and York were the bottom half. Two games against teams in your half, one cross-over game. All standings were lumped together. That wound up being the first time Waterloo ever made the playoffs. (Warriors lost to Laurier in a thriller.)

It wasn't bad, a lot of people liked it, except if you finished 4th in the top half because you played all the 'hard' schools. That's one problem with going to two tiers. Some teams that are used to going 6-2 every year are suddenly going to find themselves going 2-6.

That only lasted one year or two, they went back to one tier shortly thereafter. It's funny in retrospect to see who was considered tier 1. You wouldn't put Toronto in that group today, and you wouldn't put McMaster in tier 2, and a few years later, Waterloo actually made it to a #1 national ranking. Times change.

[Deerkeeper]

Mike Hogan's view
http://www.oua.ca/sports/fball/2014-...20140925oxhi1k

[AngeloV]

Mike Hogan's view
http://www.oua.ca/sports/fball/2014-...20140925oxhi1k

I think most schools know whether or not they will be able to compete against the top ranked schools. Maybe a solution would be to have them declare which Tier they intend to play in prior to the schedule being made.

[AngeloV]

Another brutal week of blowouts. With the exception of 3 or 4 games (1 in particular) pretty embarrassing stuff.
Of the 12 games...
9 decided by 23 or more.
8 decided by 32 or more
5 decided by 47 or more...that's over 40 percent of the weeks games decided by at least 47 points.


This week's scores:
Windsor 35, York 3
Calgary 42, Manitoba 41 (I would have loved to see that game)
Mntreal 47, St F X 0
Concordia 63, St Mary's 7
Laval 70, McGill 3
Laurier 53, Carlton 3
Ottawa 41, U of T 25
McMaster 28, Queens 19
Westrern 69, Waterloo 3
Saskatoon 21, Regina 16
Sherbrooke 48, Acadia 10
UBC 49. Alberta 13
Mt A 26, Bishop's 3

[gilthethrill]

I wonder what OV (what happened to him) would say about this? I looked at the boxscores, despite having significantly more penalties than their opponants, Western & Laurier still managed to earn victories..

[ArgoRavi]

Three of the four Atlantic teams were blown out which is another bad sign. The CIS really needs to do something to restore some kind of competitive balance. Personally, I find that my interest in CIS football is declining by the year because of this issue.

[AngeloV]

Three of the four Atlantic teams were blown out which is another bad sign. The CIS really needs to do something to restore some kind of competitive balance. Personally, I find that my interest in CIS football is declining by the year because of this issue.

Sadly, so am I Ravi. I can honestly see schools that have non-competitive teams stopping there programs in the future, and that would be good for no one.

[argofandave]

As a Waterloo grad, I'm starting to lose interest in their football team. They've always have had bad teams except for a few years during the 1990's. However, I did go to the game on Saturday since it homecoming weekend. They had a good deal that for $20, I got admission to the game, lunch from www.schmuckngormet.ca, one beer from www.blockthreebrewing.com, and a UW hat made by New Era. The weather was excellent and except for the game (Western won 69-3), I had a good time.

[argofandave]

I just read some articles online about the possibility of Waterloo folding its football program after this season which has been denied by officials at the university. One article indicated that Waterloo's football team costs $400,000 per year to operate but in order to be competitive, they need to spend between $500,000-700,000 per year. The article also states that Laval and Carleton spend $1,000,000 on their teams per year. Sorry I don't know how to post links to these articles but I read them on Yahoo, Canada Football Chat, and the Guelph Mercury.

[Argocister]

Here are the CFC articles .... http://www.canadafootballchat.com/re...ram-next-year/

http://www.canadafootballchat.com/wa...lding-program/

Apparently, there have been many changes at UWloo after their drug scandel and the disbandment of the football team for one year. Coaching and Athletic director changes have affected the organization quite a bit. The team was gathered together with the coaches and the AD to tell them of their dilema but let the team know that the University is behind them.

There is a big discrepancy with various teams obtaining private funding for their teams. But on the other hand, some of these teams are making money for their university sports programs. Laval has a system in place that just creates more opportunity for their team .... and has helped Laval build nice sports amenities for other athletes of the university. (I wouldn't sdoubt they spend more than that .... they get 15-17,000 pergame in attendance ..... 25 $ a pop
Carleton will be an interesting situation, as the Old Crows Alumni raised over 5 million to restart the team (allot 1 mill per year) .... now they have to generate a plan to keep the monies coming. Guelph has a very generous donor (the coach) but the team is creating a position for itself as a competitive team.... and is probably starting to earn its own monies.
Ottawa has allotted more funding for a few sports (football is included) to raise the level of play and be the marketing tool for the university.
I know Mac is trying to get some more sponsorship or funding but they have just switched their AD>

There is a group of schools that want some type of restriction on spending and number of coaches. .... to me thats bending to the lowest common denominator ..... but thats where the two tiers may be set out.

Sorry for the rant ....

[AngeloV]

It's oviously not a level playing field, and that is why I started this thread originally. They need a Tier system.

[ArgoRavi]

It's oviously not a level playing field, and that is why I started this thread originally. They need a Tier system.

Yes, let's just have a Division I including the likes of Western, Laval, Calgary and Carleton (as they become more established) and then a Division II with everyone else. Include the schools with money in Division I and the ones without in Division II.

[AngeloV]

Yes, let's just have a Division I including the likes of Western, Laval, Calgary and Carleton (as they become more established) and then a Division II with everyone else. Include the schools with money in Division I and the ones without in Division II.

I was thinking along the lines of 12 schools in the top tier. You can throw in Laurier, Montreal, Guelph Queens, Concordia, Saskatchewan, Regina and Manitoba. It doesn't have to be a permanent thing either. It may just be the kick in the pants that the alumni of the other schools need to put back into the programs. IMO, That is the best way to level the field.