2014-2015 Off-Season Player Movement Thread

[doubleblue]

I think what put too much pressure on our passing was poor play calling. When Slaton started to play better later in the season, he wasn't used enough and at the right times, nor were our other running backs. We almost never used our fullbacks for anything other than blocking. Our offensive approach with respect to the running game has to change if we want the best chance to make the playoffs and do well in the playoffs. Ricky Ray isn't very mobile at all and a running game would help keep him healthy and take some of the pressure of the opposing team's pass rush off him.

15-20 carries would be okay on many nights, not as a maxiumum but as an average number of carries per game. In many games in 2014 we were nowhere near that number, and those did tend to be the games that we lost.

Slaton and Steele are adequate if unspectacular and hopefully we find at least one new back to complement them. It's hard to rely on 2 RBs for an entire season and I think it is possible that the reason we didn't use Slaton more late in the year is he was likely more injured than the team was letting on, even in the games where he got a significant number of touches.

After one game Toronto lost Milanovich said "we probably should have run the ball more in the third quarter". I'm sure many fans could see that during the game, but he didn't figure it out until after the game was over.

As for the signing of Scott the new RB, it will be interesting to see if he makes the team, and if he is healthy enough to be used a lot this coming season--given how long he played in the NFL.

I agree. Steele and Slaton were ok if not spectacular. Slaton might be the better receiver with Yac yards. But not being big backs they do seem to get injured and thus the need for depth.
I am still waiting for Barker to find that big back that can block and has good running ability as well. Someone in the 6'0 220-225 range instead of these small 5'9 5'10 190 pound guys. They are ok for a change of pace but can't stand up game in and game out against the bigger D Linemen. I know most of these sized guys are in the NFL but other teams in the CFL seem to be able to find such players.

[OV Argo]

I agree. Steele and Slaton were ok if not spectacular. Slaton might be the better receiver with Yac yards. But not being big backs they do seem to get injured and thus the need for depth.
I am still waiting for Barker to find that big back that can block and has good running ability as well. Someone in the 6'0 220-225 range instead of these small 5'9 5'10 190 pound guys. They are ok for a change of pace but can't stand up game in and game out against the bigger D Linemen. I know most of these sized guys are in the NFL but other teams in the CFL seem to be able to find such players.

I'd like to see a big back in the mix and wayyyyyyyyyy more ground game, but - ain't gonna happen with the offensive thinking on this team now.

Jerome Messam is that kind of back - only bigger at around 240 and with some moves and speed for a big back, and has a 1000 yard CFL season on his resume; AND he was sitting around available as a free agent for quite some time early last year = Barker could have signed him (and probably for cheap) for at least a look, but clearly he had no interest = no use for such a big power RB, and Messam has the wrong birth certificate to rate consideration for a lot of work at RB with this Argo team.

And i think a combo of Slaton or Steele, or the new guy Scott (or sign Stefan Logan too - still a dangerous RB who could play a role in some offensive schemes) - can work fine as a few carries a game / catch some passes, type backs in this limited thinking/look offence; and if you want a back mostly for blocking protection for Ray - put Dupuis in there for plenty of those situations.

[jerrym]

Here's an article on who cfl.ca ranks as the top six remaining CFL free agents.
DB Johnny Sears
LB Rennie Curran
OL Glenn January
WR Aaron Kelly
WR Bakari Grant
WR Jason Barnes

http://www.cfl.ca/article/still-out-...keep-an-eye-on

The way things are going in Toronto, it doesn't look like the Argos have much of a chance of signing any of them, even if they wanted to.

[Mookie Fan]

I agree. Steele and Slaton were ok if not spectacular. Slaton might be the better receiver with Yac yards. But not being big backs they do seem to get injured and thus the need for depth.

I am still waiting for Barker to find that big back that can block and has good running ability as well. Someone in the 6'0 220-225 range instead of these small 5'9 5'10 190 pound guys. They are ok for a change of pace but can't stand up game in and game out against the bigger D Linemen. I know most of these sized guys are in the NFL but other teams in the CFL seem to be able to find such players.

Bigger backs can get injured too, and some smaller backs are durable, but in general I think what you are saying is true. Great points. Coaches and GMs look at players like former CFL RBs Charles Roberts, Pinball Clemons, and assume any smaller back can survive with a large workload the way they did. Those players are the exception, not the rule. In the NFL, former RB Warrick Dunn is an example of this kind of resilient player as well, although in the NFL the assumption is the opposite, that smaller players cannot take the physical toll over time.

One nice thing about the CFL is that players of different sizes have thrived playing the same game, sometimes for different reasons. This is less true of the NFL, where larger players are usually favoured and talented smaller players are often never given a fair chance. That said, size does sometimes help in any league, including the CFL. Bigger backs like Robert Drummond, Sean Millington and Tony Burse were amazing in the CFL. All 3 had stints with the Argos late in their careers,(the 2nd Argo-stint for Drummond), and all 3 were often unstoppable.

The closest thing we had to the kind of back you are talking about was Anthony Woodson, who is 6'0 215. That's pretty good size for a CFL RB. He's taller and heavier than our other RBs. Of course, the people running the Argos had no use for him. We'll rely on 3 smaller international RBs instead, who will be given the 9 lives American RBs are usually given in the CFL.

I'd like to see a big back in the mix and wayyyyyyyyyy more ground game, but - ain't gonna happen with the offensive thinking on this team now.



Jerome Messam is that kind of back - only bigger at around 240 and with some moves and speed for a big back, and has a 1000 yard CFL season on his resume; AND he was sitting around available as a free agent for quite some time early last year = Barker could have signed him (and probably for cheap) for at least a look, but clearly he had no interest = no use for such a big power RB, and Messam has the wrong birth certificate to rate consideration for a lot of work at RB with this Argo team.



And i think a combo of Slaton or Steele, or the new guy Scott (or sign Stefan Logan too - still a dangerous RB who could play a role in some offensive schemes) - can work fine as a few carries a game / catch some passes, type backs in this limited thinking/look offence; and if you want a back mostly for blocking protection for Ray - put Dupuis in there for plenty of those situations.

Great analysis of the situation. We do need more ground game. Even Doug Flutie's Argonaut offence had a great ground game.

Messam did have a significant injury in the past, but he had some football left in him and would have been risk-free signing. His contract would not have been guaranteed, so why not? Jeff Johnson is another example of a Canadian player who was underutilized by the Argos, so we're used to it by now.

Our new signing Bernard Scott is likely near the end of his career whether he succeeds with the Argos or not. He also has no CFL experience.

We even have people looking for Kackert to return as a player, even though he is clearly not going to. He couldn't stay healthy at all his entire time with Toronto as a player, and luckily was healthy at the right time to help us win the 100th Grey Cup. Some fans had no faith in Canadian talent like Anthony Woodson, who was healthy and on our roster, and instead many Argos fans started cheerleading for the return of Kackert, who promptly proved he was injury-prone by getting hurt in practice yet again, a feat accomplished by Andre Durie as well. It's like people keep living in the past with our roster. It isn't 2012 anymore. Kackert's game was all-speed. Durie is a longer discussion.

Here's an article on who cfl.ca ranks as the top six remaining CFL free agents.

DB Johnny Sears

LB Rennie Curran

OL Glenn January

WR Aaron Kelly

WR Bakari Grant

WR Jason Barnes



http://www.cfl.ca/article/still-out-...keep-an-eye-on



The way things are going in Toronto, it doesn't look like the Argos have much of a chance of signing any of them, even if they wanted to.

Of these available free agents, only Barkari Grant and Aaron Kelly interest me. Both are of similar size and age. Grant is obviously the more accomplished player, but both are intriguing and signing at least one of them would be nice.

[OV Argo]

Mookie - i would have liked to see Woodson retained, but he probably wouldn't have played much, plus the Argos still have Coombs (i believe viewed as a Durie clone / eventual replacement as a slot - but still he had some carries last year and showed some stuff/ is capable), plus Gillanders as NI RBs.

IF they wanted to go RB this draft (very doubtful IMO), there are some good ones: Varga is a pipe dream/risk cause i bet he makes the NFL and never shows in the CFL (too bad/sad though); but there are some other RBs including some bigger backs - Chris Normand (Laval) goes at 6-1, 240 - didn't play all that much at Laval as they use a RB platoon system, but seeing some clips of his play he shows some quicks / tailback skills for such a huge back; there is also UBC's Brandon Deschamps who is a bigger back who put up some decent CIS stats. There are also bound to be some bigger more bruising style import RBs out there as FAs who could be signed for a TC look. BUT - again - doubt this team's offensive thinkers have much use for a big power back or lots of ground game.

[Mookie Fan]

Mookie - i would have liked to see Woodson retained, but he probably wouldn't have played much, plus the Argos still have Coombs (i believe viewed as a Durie clone / eventual replacement as a slot - but still he had some carries last year and showed some stuff/ is capable), plus Gillanders as NI RBs.

IF they wanted to go RB this draft (very doubtful IMO), there are some good ones: Varga is a pipe dream/risk cause i bet he makes the NFL and never shows in the CFL (too bad/sad though); but there are some other RBs including some bigger backs - Chris Normand (Laval) goes at 6-1, 240 - didn't play all that much at Laval as they use a RB platoon system, but seeing some clips of his play he shows some quicks / tailback skills for such a huge back; there is also UBC's Brandon Deschamps who is a bigger back who put up some decent CIS stats. There are also bound to be some bigger more bruising style import RBs out there as FAs who could be signed for a TC look. BUT - again - doubt this team's offensive thinkers have much use for a big power back or lots of ground game.

I agree that under our current coaching staff and GM Woodson probably wouldn't have played much, unless the team suffered multiple injuries at that position, which can happen and did last year. That said, "wouldn't" have played much isn't the same as "couldn't" have. Coombs definitely showed a lot early last year, and could take the odd carry as Durie has in the past. Gillanders is actually listed as our third FB, but at 5'11 203 is closer in size to most CFL RBs. Jeff Johnson did play at FB at times late in his career, and he isn't big overall for a FB, so there is obviously some flexibility. Robinson and Dupuis are obiously much bigger than Gillanders. It would be interesting to see how Gillanders would do as a ball carrier.

I don't dispute that we have our fair share of backs, but I'd rather have a 27 year-old Woodson with something to prove than a new draft pick with no pro experience. The future is now in the CFL. That said, I hope we do draft at least 1 running back. Why not replace the Canadian RB we lost in free agency? That position often experiences a large number of injuries. I think our priorities in the draft are maybe a defensive tackle and/or a defensive end to spell Cleyon Laing and Ricky Foley, and maybe a Canadian WR to replace Spencer Watt. Other than that, I don't see any obvious needs, so I'd be fine if we take a RB with one of our picks. Varga is big enough that he may have some NFL interest...the other two players you mentioned also sound intriguing. I guess you can never have enough good offensive lineman, but maybe we find a good internation OL to replace Rogers?

We'll see if our offensive thinkers change at all in 2015, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Wobbler]

We'll see if our offensive thinkers change at all in 2015, but I'm not holding my breath.

For what change should we be hoping?

[Mookie Fan]

For what change should we be hoping?

A change in offensive philosophy by our GM, coach and his co-ordinators, with an approach that emphasizes more of a balanced attack, rather than the "we're a passing team" philosophy Milanovich espouses. We don't have to run the ball all the time, but a balanced offence would take a lot of pressure off Ricky Ray, keep opposing defences guessing and lead to us sustaining more drives, scoring more points, and winning more games. It would also allow us to have more time-of-possession. Milanovich isn't the worst coach, but he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. His pass-happy philosophy cost us 3-4 games easily in 2014. The Argos had no business missing the playoffs last year, despite their injuries and the other challenges they faced.

The running game often helps set up the pass, and vice versa. There are also times when you should keep feeding a running back the ball 2-3 times in a row. Often the Argos would stop running the ball in 2014 when it was working really well. It's often worth running a bit more than average until an opposing defence proves they can stop it consistently. If a defence is tired, passing the ball often lets them off-the-hook.

[OV Argo]

A change in offensive philosophy by our GM, coach and his co-ordinators, with an approach that emphasizes more of a balanced attack, rather than the "we're a passing team" philosophy Milanovich espouses. We don't have to run the ball all the time, but a balanced offence would take a lot of pressure off Ricky Ray, keep opposing defences guessing and lead to us sustaining more drives, scoring more points, and winning more games. It would also allow us to have more time-of-possession. Milanovich isn't the worst coach, but he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. His pass-happy philosophy cost us 3-4 games easily in 2014. The Argos had no business missing the playoffs last year, despite their injuries and the other challenges they faced.
The running game often helps set up the pass, and vice versa. There are also times when you should keep feeding a running back the ball 2-3 times in a row. Often the Argos would stop running the ball in 2014 when it was working really well. It's often worth running a bit more than average until an opposing defence proves they can stop it consistently. If a defence is tired, passing the ball often lets them off-the-hook.

Bang-on, IMO.

[jerrym]

Triple bang-on, IMO.

[paulwoods13]

Not gonna happen, IMO.

[Double Dare]

Milanovich isn't the worst coach, but he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer.

... with a personality of a damp dish rag.

[AngeloV]

I like the way we play on offence....but that's just my opinion.

[paulwoods13]

... with a personality of a damp dish rag.

Wow, and people accuse me of being negative.

[Wobbler]

I think we're using our personnel appropriately, for the most part, and I like a pass-heavy offense.

[Antwon]

A change in offensive philosophy by our GM, coach and his co-ordinators, with an approach that emphasizes more of a balanced attack, rather than the "we're a passing team" philosophy Milanovich espouses. We don't have to run the ball all the time, but a balanced offence would take a lot of pressure off Ricky Ray, keep opposing defences guessing and lead to us sustaining more drives, scoring more points, and winning more games. It would also allow us to have more time-of-possession. Milanovich isn't the worst coach, but he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. His pass-happy philosophy cost us 3-4 games easily in 2014. The Argos had no business missing the playoffs last year, despite their injuries and the other challenges they faced.

The running game often helps set up the pass, and vice versa. There are also times when you should keep feeding a running back the ball 2-3 times in a row. Often the Argos would stop running the ball in 2014 when it was working really well. It's often worth running a bit more than average until an opposing defence proves they can stop it consistently. If a defence is tired, passing the ball often lets them off-the-hook.

I agree as well. I don't know if it was due to lack of quality receivers, or RR's shoulder, or just the game plan. But the offence could never push deep passes or establish the run. So we saw a lot of 2 to 4 yard passes out to the flat. Which every other teams defence figured out quickly and sent pressure on Ray all game.

[AngeloV]

Today's CFL defences play to take away the big play and that is why you see a lot of check downs rather the QB's forcing the ball deep into coverage, and likely a big factor in scores being down so much. Would mixing in the run more often help? Probably, but the way the CFL clock is run these days, the result would be more time ticking off the clock between plays, and less overall offensive plays being run. I'm not so sure that would increase scoring or make it a better game.

[R.J]

I would have to agree with Mook and OV here, the offense not only here but all over the league was terrible last season, most boring display of offensive football I've seen in a long time. I absolutely loathe hearing how last season was the "Year of the Defense, that's some spin if I've ever heard it, last season was the year of the conservative offense and penalty clean up (and by that I mean the league decided it was time to actually get plays called right and still failed, Johnson claking they weren't calling plays differently was pathetically hilarious). From my point of view pretty much the entire league (with certain exceptions) have gone to the Trestman offense, but made it more conservative. Would love to see more balanced offenses and teams actually pushing the ball instead of almost solely relying on the screen route.

I was actually hoping that with BC bringing Tedford in, we'd actually see the start of some new offensive thinking in the league, but became disappointed when Cortez was hired as the offensive co-ordinator. I don't see Milanovich changing his offensive system and even if Milo leaves after this season, I could easily see Himebauch become the HC and who knows what type of offense we'd see then.

[ArgoRavi]

I like the way we play on offence....but that's just my opinion.

I do too. I have always been a proponent of the passing game. Yes, I do understand the importance of and appreciate a good running game but there is nothing prettier in football than an effective passing game IMO.

BTW, the Argos will be working out a Canadian QB this weekend:

Former @reginarams QB Cayman Shutter will have a tryout w/ #Argos on the weekend. #cfl #cis via @CTVDarrell

— CFL News (@CFL_News) March 11, 2015

[Argo57]

I agree as well. I don't know if it was due to lack of quality receivers, or RR's shoulder, or just the game plan. But the offence could never push deep passes or establish the run. So we saw a lot of 2 to 4 yard passes out to the flat. Which every other teams defence figured out quickly and sent pressure on Ray all game.

All of your above points were major factors regarding the O philosophy last season.
The freakish amount of injuries to our recievers led to back ups to back ups learning the offence and affected the chemistry.
The O-Line play last season didn't help much as well and IMO led to Ray dumping the ball off, hopefully one of the young recievers proves to be a deep threat so that opposing defences at least have to respect the Argos ability to throw deep.
Hopefully Ray's surgically repaired shoulder helps rejuvenate the passing game and improved O-Line coaching and blocking schemes fall into place as well. Should be interesting.