2014-2015 Off-Season Player Movement Thread

[OV Argo]

Yeah, we have all our picks in first five, none in round 6, two in round 7.

3
12
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30
39
55
56

Think we could get at least three, maybe four keepers from such a deep draft.

Ok - thanks - for some reason, i thought we had traded away a 2nd or 3rd rounder ?

Who knows what the draft thinking will be - some CFL drafts are so bizzarre or unpredictable with some whacky, questionable, WTF type picks.

Argos maybe could get : Lamar Durant at #3 (don't pick him if he gets an NFL look though), a DT like Tennant or Abdesmad at #12, and then still a decent O-lineman in the 3rd round; or swap the order of linemen - (still going to be a decent DT in the 3rd round IMO).

[doubleblue]

Ok - thanks - for some reason, i thought we had traded away a 2nd or 3rd rounder ?

Who knows what the draft thinking will be - some CFL drafts are so bizzarre or unpredictable with some whacky, questionable, WTF type picks.

Argos maybe could get : Lamar Durant at #3 (don't pick him if he gets an NFL look though), a DT like Tennant or Abdesmad at #12, and then still a decent O-lineman in the 3rd round; or swap the order of linemen - (still going to be a decent DT in the 3rd round IMO).

I had forgot about the League adding a seventh round. I think everybody Barker picks this year will have a shot of sticking around or at least a stay on the PR. Maybe even bump a few current guys off the roster. I think there will be some 7th rounders picked who weren't at the main combine because of injuries. A couple of examples of good players IMO, and who have been all stars, would be WR Matt Norzil (Laval) 6'2 190 4.5 forty and OT David Beard (ALberta) 6'5 275.
Maybe we can have a mock in early May for fun and see if we can beat Dunk. lol

After today IMO the first round guys will be, and not necessary in this order would be, OC McEwan (Calgary), OG Chung (Calgary), OT Groulx (Laval), OT Ruby (Richmond), LB/S Clarke (Bishop's), LB/S Ackie (Laurier), WR Durant (SFU), WR Demski (Manitoba) and WR Richards (Regina). OC/G Mateas (Connecticut) might slide in there as well if he doesn't sign down South. Will make for some good second round picks I would think.

[OV Argo]

You IMO have to factor in NFL interest in trying to gauge top CFL draft picks upcoming. The very top level Candian talent this draft includes IMO the likes of Varga, Covington, Boyko, Durant, Bridge, Archambault - who all might draw decent to very strong NFL interest = risky CFL draft picks perhaps. There is still after that a whole whack of good draftable players who might be higher picks than the guys i mentioned because they are safer bets to show in the CFL. Some pretty decent sleeper type picks too perhaps that haven't drawn much attention or notice thus far (or might be written off by some CFL scouts who put more stock in measureables) but who are proven college ball players - on the football field - love to see the Argos be able to grab a couple of those types (like S Coady (Montreal) or DT LeBlanc (Mt Allison)) - in the mid to later rounds and give them a real look.

[Wobbler]

How do you feel about the top three receivers after this weekend, OV? Duane Forde didn't seem particularly impressed by Durant or Demski and didn't mention Richards at all.

[OV Argo]

How do you feel about the top three receivers after this weekend, OV? Duane Forde didn't seem particularly impressed by Durant or Demski and didn't mention Richards at all.

I really like Forde as a smart football observer, but i hope he doesn't put too much stock in a few, limited real football drills in a Combine?

Durant is a huge receiver and his tests showed he has great strength, good speed and some jumping ability; but much more important to me is his college ball production - where he put up a monster season with catches/yardage and big play ability = he was a dominant receiver in college ball. Demski and Richards are fine receiver prospects too and there are some other guys like Harty, Davidson, Pospichill (didn't go to the main Combine? = very questionable with his college ball production) + Abankwha who apparently really raised his stock in the one on ones - so is he now the best receiver in this draft class?

BUT - IMO - again - the smart scouts will judge players mostly by having watched them play LOTS in real football, but also backed by Combine type results; putting too much emphasis on the latter is IMO a big mistake sometimes.

[doubleblue]

I think what Duane Forde was really saying about Durant was that while he has all the tools he will need some seasoning and a learning curve when he goes up against pro corner backs. I always remember statements from different Coaches or Players who come over to the CFL from the NFL. They say there is very little drop off if any from the cover skills of the CFL CB's on average compared to the NFL. So I believe what Duane was meaning about Durant is he will find just his speed and size that worked so well in Div II play won't cut it in the Pros. He will have a learning curve while he works on his route running etc. to get separation from coverage. Demski IMO is a little ahead in that category.
The St. Mary's kid Melvin Abankwan on the other hand seems to have that natural ability of being able to get separation at the right time. The DB's in this combine couldn't cover him. He's only 5'8 190 and a 4.67 forty but he could be a steal for some club in the middle rounds.

[AngeloV]

I think what Duane Forde was really saying about Durant was that while he has all the tools he will need some seasoning and a learning curve when he goes up against pro corner backs. I always remember statements from different Coaches or Players who come over to the CFL from the NFL. They say there is very little drop off if any from the cover skills of the CFL CB's on average compared to the NFL. So I believe what Duane was meaning about Durant is he will find just his speed and size that worked so well in Div II play won't cut it in the Pros. He will have a learning curve while he works on his route running etc. to get separation from coverage. Demski IMO is a little ahead in that category.

That's very fair. I thought that Shawmad Chambers and Sam Giguere would step right into the league and be productive. Last year they both started to show things, so I agree there is definitely a learning curve jumping into the pros.

[gilthethrill]

I am looking forward to the new Top 20 Rankings. Heck, even moreso, I am looking forward to the draft!

[OV Argo]

I think what Duane Forde was really saying about Durant was that while he has all the tools he will need some seasoning and a learning curve when he goes up against pro corner backs. I always remember statements from different Coaches or Players who come over to the CFL from the NFL. They say there is very little drop off if any from the cover skills of the CFL CB's on average compared to the NFL. So I believe what Duane was meaning about Durant is he will find just his speed and size that worked so well in Div II play won't cut it in the Pros. He will have a learning curve while he works on his route running etc. to get separation from coverage. Demski IMO is a little ahead in that category.
The St. Mary's kid Melvin Abankwan on the other hand seems to have that natural ability of being able to get separation at the right time. The DB's in this combine couldn't cover him. He's only 5'8 190 and a 4.67 forty but he could be a steal for some club in the middle rounds.

There is a learning curve or step-up in competition for any rookie player coming into the pros - it's not limited to Canadian players.

And I can't fathom how Demski - a converted RB/return specialist who has only played 2 seasons as a regular receiver in college ball, would be ahead of or more "polished" a receiver than Durant who has been playing the position all his college career, (including a season learning at a Div I program (UNLV i think it was) and who has also put up a monster receiving stat season that Demski's resume just does not have. Maybe though ;o) And i suppose Abankwah is now the best receiver in this draft class cause he couldn't be covered in some not real game situation drills in a Combine ? - Ok, whatever. Some of these experts might want to make themselves sound important in making sweeping or definitive judgements on football players based on a Combine, or maybe they are just making talk? Anybody want to bet on who accomplishes more in the pros as a receiver between Abankwah and Lamar Durant? And I saw Jason Clermont play as a rookie in the CFL (and not as a little used wide-side Canadian WR who gets one pass thrown his way a game like the Esks treated Chambers) - Clermont was not fast by any means, just big, tough, good route runner and very good hands - and he did just fine against all those superstar CFL cover Dbs; just as Fantuz did too (till he had a few drops issues as a 2nd year player) - Durant is same size or bigger than Clermont but way faster and more athletic. Sorry - I don't buy the sometimes condescending "not ready" comments against outstanding rookie football talent/prospects - that seems to IMO get applied quite often to Canadian players. There are lots of players who need some time to get up to pro speed; there are also plenty of rookie players who are solid to best in the league types when they get a chance to play as a rookie. Did the Als think Duron Carter had to sit on the bench and learn for a year or two when he came to the CFL? How bout Inman with the Argos ?

And if you put any stock in college ball play / stats - last year's Argo draft pick receiver Psczonzak has the wayyyyy better receiver resume (and backed by some some better testing #s) vs. Abankwah; but i guess some football expert mentioning on the internet that Abankwah looked good in a Combine drill now makes him this bona fide superstar receiver prospect (which he may well be) ? - sorry, but I am inclined to go with actual game play on a football field to best judge football players.

[Argo57]

I think in this "made for TV" era, the combine has taken a life of its own (particularly in the NFL).
Guys 40 times are dissected down to the millisecond, verticals, long jump, all the other crap are subject to microanalysis and in some eyes make for good TV.
How about watching these guys play period in game situations and if you want closer analysis watch the game film, this is football where in game instincts and smarts trump the difference between running a 4.45 or 4.49 40.

[doubleblue]

[QUOTE=doubleblue;58938]Hold the applause until he is signed. Remember how Austin Collie was "signed" by the Montreal and turned up in BC. Westerman's brother plays for the Lions, so that could be a factor.
I am hoping OV that the Argos can nab big DT Mehdi Abdesmad 6'7 297 out of Boston in a second or third round. He's recovering from an early 2014 season injury and might not be ready to start the season, but would be worth waiting for IMO. But I have also heard he might be granted another year at Boston because of the injury.
I would not be surprised if there are a few more players like this kid out of Michigan State, Matt Rea, that remember that they have Canadian roots and let it be known to the CFL clubs. Maybe even a few who have had NFL tryouts and would now be Free Agents like Westerman. Lets see, we need a Right Guard about 6'3 295 and maybe a big 6'3 220 WR for a start with a couple of NFL camp experiences.

I have been trying to find out the status of Mehdi Abdesmad of Boston College, and it appears he has been granted another year of College Football. He had a bad knee injury after only four games in 2013 and then reinjured it again last fall. Tough break for him.
Also OG Dillon Guy of Buffalo has been awarded another year of College Football because of injury. So he won't be draftable this year either.

[Wobbler]

I think what Duane Forde was really saying about Durant was that while he has all the tools he will need some seasoning and a learning curve when he goes up against pro corner backs.

Nearly every combine player needs seasoning and education before he can go up against pros! What worries me is that (according to Forde) Durant may not have shown enough polish or seasoning to impress against the *combine* DBs.

I may be overinterpreting based on a brief clip. Bring on the pre-draft rankings (CSB and others)!

[OV Argo]

I think in this "made for TV" era, the combine has taken a life of its own (particularly in the NFL).
Guys 40 times are dissected down to the millisecond, verticals, long jump, all the other crap are subject to microanalysis and in some eyes make for good TV.
How about watching these guys play period in game situations and if you want closer analysis watch the game film, this is football where in game instincts and smarts trump the difference between running a 4.45 or 4.49 40.

At least the CFL Combine is now generating some interest, compared to in the past where the was next to no interest in the CFL draft or top Canadian football players available to the CFL.

But yeah - i get a kick out of the "expert" over analysis and those who want to believe so much in numbers or measureables as some sort of gospel for football scouting. Why Andy Fantuz had no business playing in the CFL with his ultra slow 40 time; and Dan Federkeil surely could not play pro ball with his Combine bench #. Yep - OK.

[Wobbler]

When was there next-to-no interest in the CFL draft (etc.)? That must have been before my time!

[doubleblue]

I really hope Milanovich and Barker or people connected to them read this and other threads on this site. I wonder if they do?... Hmmmm.....

Why do you think the CFL changed the rule for Nationals and the Argos are trying to sign Jamaal Westerman.



Jim Barker said his scouts love what they're doing for little pay. We as volinteer scouts love what we're doing and pay for it.

[Wobbler]

We signed CB Jacob Lacey today. He was having a pretty good NFL career before untimely injuries and competition did him in. He's still just 27 and may be looking for a ticket back to the NFL, which should keep him motivated.

[OV Argo]

We signed CB Jacob Lacey today. He was having a pretty good NFL career before untimely injuries and competition did him in. He's still just 27 and may be looking for a ticket back to the NFL, which should keep him motivated.

Sounds like a potential very nice signing - in an area of big need = bring on the TC competition; former NFL starter and Barker loves his ex-NFLers; hopefully he is keen and committed to play in the CFL and picks up the style of play up here.

[Wobbler]

Agreed, OV. We used so many guys in the secondary last year I have a hard time guessing what the current depth chart would be (other than Gabriel, obviously). It would be great to see a good battle in camp.

[jerrym]

Lacey's NFL stats clearly show he was clearly above the typical "NFL veteran" who comes to a CFL TC.

CAREER STATSMORE
Season	Team			Tackles					Interceptions						Fumbles
		G	GS	Comb	Total	Ast	Sck	SFTY	PDef	Int	Yds	Avg	Lng	TDs	FF
2013	Minnesota Vikings	0	0	0	--	--	--	--	--	--	--	0.0	--	--	--
2012	Detroit Lions	11	9	36	30	6	0.0	--	4	1	10	10.0	10	0	0
2011	Indianapolis Colts	15	10	72	48	24	0.0	0	6	1	32	32.0	32T	1	3
2010	Indianapolis Colts	12	8	64	51	13	0.0	--	2	1	44	44.0	44	0	0
2009	Indianapolis Colts	16	9	85	69	16	0.0	0	13	3	53	17.7	35T	1	0
TOTAL				257	198	59	0.0	0	25	6	139	--	44	2	3

http://www.nfl.com/player/jacoblacey/2507645/profile

[T-Bone]

The #Argos have signed international receivers Ronald Johnson & Kevin Elliott. #CFL STORY: http://t.co/HyOY9IA8Px pic.twitter.com/5n1yChAdva

— Toronto Argonauts (@TorontoArgos) April 9, 2015