How Good Is Jordan Herdman? (His Dad Played for the Argos)

[jerrym]

FB | PRO DAY @SFUFootball @JjHerdJordan runs agility drill in front of NFL scouts from Atlanta & Arizona & 4 CFL teams pic.twitter.com/3rFoEKTMFM

— SFU Clan (@SFUClan) March 11, 2017

[OV Argo]

Which 4 CFL teams? - I see some BC gear there.

The level of NFL interest towards him should greatly affect his CFL draft stock.

IF - he gets snubbed somewhat there - not drafted or just a late mini camp invite - and says to CFL teams that he would report to the CFL right away = should make him a 1st rounder IMO, and maybe make very good sense for the Bombers to take him #1 overall - they have the need/opening at MLB and he's a Winnipeg guy. That's if they view him the #1 MLB prospect - Mulumba-T (Maine) might give him a run there.

[Shatto]

Does not sound like there was a lot of NFL interest in his Pro Day. Only 2 NFL scouts were there and they indicated, that they were there since they were already going to the Saturday NFL Pro Day camp at Un of Washington. Also the results may not have been as good as he was hoping---nobody was talking about the results but comments were made, that in general, the two brothers were not good testers. One would also expect that Joe Linta, his agent, would have released the information if the testing results were good.
Leroy Simon, suggested that the Jordan's decision not to attend the CFL Combine was a dubious one. Linta is only interested in getting his player an NFL offer and therefore a commission for him. The player may be getting poor advice on this one.

[jerrym]

Below is Mike Beamish's summary of Jordan Herdman's Pro Day. While Jordan will not be attending the CFL Combine, his brother Justin will, who doesn't have his brother's record-breaking 117 tackles last year but still ranked seventh in the league with 73 tackles, in part because the SFU defence was designed to direct RBs towards Jordan. Justin could be a valuable asset to many teams although he doesn't get anywhere near the attention that Jordan gets.

Two stopwatch-toting scouts from the NFL and four more from the CFL — including B.C. Lions player personnel assistant Geroy Simon — reporters, a TV cameraman and a cadre of supporters watched the prospects perform on an artificial turf-carpeted indoor soccer practice bubble.
There were two reasons for Terry McDonough, vice-president of player personnel for the Arizona Cardinals and Shepley Heard, Western regional scout for the Atlanta Falcons, to be there. Both had come on the recommendation of Joe Linta, Jordan Herdman’s player agent, a man who has built a reputation for representing players on the margins of the NFL draft, undiscovered small college gems such as Herdman.

The other is that NFL scouts are headed to the Pro Day at the University of Washington on Saturday, so it’s a small inconvenience to take a side trip to Vancouver to scout out a prospect as intriguing as the GNAC conference’s all-time leader in career (428), single-season (165) and single-game (26) tackles.
“There’s a ton of prospects there (Washington),” Heard said. “Take our pick. They’ve got about three first-round draft picks. Washington State yesterday, Simon Fraser today, Washington tomorrow.”
While the NFL interest centres around Jordan Herdman — a late invite who showed well in the Senior Bowl college all-star game against players from NCAA Division I, poised for NFL stardom — both McDonough and Heard were as forthcoming as Bill Belichick when asked what they observed Friday.
“Our policy is not to talk to the press,” McDonough said.
“I’ve been reprimanded before,” Heard explained.
Still, NFL teams can learn as much or more about a player’s potential and demeanour from the comfort of their offices, simply through the Internet, which has created the biggest shift in scouting. Thus Friday’s showcase, while fewer in the number of NFL scouts expected, doesn’t necessarily mean teams are lukewarm to cool on Jordan Herman’s future.
“You only need one team to like you,” Simon said. “These guys (Jordan and Justin Herdman) are not great testers. Their testing numbers really don’t match up to their ability. So, the testing can’t be the only thing you look at with these guys. When you see them on the field, they look fast. They play fast. And they play physical.”
The 40-yard-dash, hand-timed, the three-cone shuttle, the 60-yard shuttle, the bench press — the numbers are telling signs of an NFL-calibre athlete on his Pro Day. But scouts also get to observe other indicators: agility, change of direction and the ability to catch a football, after the formal testing is done, that tell them something else.
“That’s what makes them the ballplayers they are,” said SFU head coach Kelly Bates. “Sure, the testing is nice. Many people show they’re great testers but can’t play on the field. They’re (Herdmans) probably at the other end of that spectrum.”
Over the years, about half of Linta’s clients who weren’t invited to the NFL combine have ended up on NFL rosters. The agent believes Jordan Herdman will get a call from a team at some point on draft weekend, April 27-29 in Philadelphia, even if his name isn’t among the 253 players selected over seven rounds.
“He’s definitely a draftable guy who may not get drafted,” Linta maintained. “But Jordan’s on everybody’s radar. Worst case scenario: he’ll get a phone call five minutes after the draft.”
Unlike his twin brother, Jordan Herdman won’t be attending the CFL combine, March 23-25 in Regina, a decision that Simon seemed to suggest is a dubious one. The 2017 CFL draft is scheduled May 7, two weeks after its NFL counterpart.
“They (Jordan and his agent) made a choice — and they’re sticking with it,” Simon said. “That’s all I can say about that.”
Explained Jordan Herdman: “Me and my agent came up with the decision that a Pro Day was all we needed. If teams wanted to see me, they had to come to my Pro Day.
“I was expecting a few more (scouts). But we’re still happy with the turnout. It’s all on film anyway. Teams can still see me and evaluate me. And they’ll all get film of my Pro Day. The next step for me is just to wait for the (NFL draft).”

[paulwoods13]

IF - he gets snubbed somewhat there - not drafted or just a late mini camp invite - and says to CFL teams that he would report to the CFL right away = should make him a 1st rounder IMO, and maybe make very good sense for the Bombers to take him #1 overall - they have the need/opening at MLB and he's a Winnipeg guy.

The next guy that tells a CFL team he will report and won't pursue NFL options will be the first to do so in a long time. Why would anyone turn down a shot (however long) at a first-year contract of $500k-plus US for a first-year contract of less than $100k Cdn?

[Invader]

One of the biggest numbers concerning Jordan is 5'10.75" (as per the NFL scouts at his Pro Day). I'd say CFL teams should definately keep him on their draft radar or perhaps his twin brother who might have put up similar defensive numbers if he ever had the chance to play MLB?

[OV Argo]

The next guy that tells a CFL team he will report and won't pursue NFL options will be the first to do so in a long time. Why would anyone turn down a shot (however long) at a first-year contract of $500k-plus US for a first-year contract of less than $100k Cdn?

And you know this how? - been sitting in on interview sessions at the CFL Combine for some time?

All Herdman has to say to a CFL team is : sure, I'm interested in an NFL shot, who wouldn't be; but if I am not drafted there or don't get a serious free agent call, I'll show up for you this TC and commit there for at least a couple of seasons, and then maybe try the NFL down the road. NFL TC invite as a FA means ZERO guaranteed dollars, and a serious CFL team looking at a blue-chip type prospect could offer a decent signing bonus, plus a 100K range salary to start; that's a team that has serious respect for top notch Canadian talent who might end up a long-time starter (see Don Moen or Kevin Eiben types); other myopic GOBs would rather offer 95K to a middling import talent and hand him a starting job for a year or two till he decides to go back to the States.

[paulwoods13]

Let us know if this happens.

[Shatto]

It is now reported that Jordon did have poor results in his pro day. Only 4.97 for the 40. He now states he will be going to the Combine after all, in order to try for better results. Regardless of how many tackles he made in college, his slow 40 along with his other weak results might knock him out of the first round unless he improves greatly in the combine.

[OV Argo]

It is now reported that Jordon did have poor results in his pro day. Only 4.97 for the 40. He now states he will be going to the Combine after all, in order to try for better results. Regardless of how many tackles he made in college, his slow 40 along with his other weak results might knock him out of the first round unless he improves greatly in the combine.

His not so great testing #s might affect/influence some scouts, but not all of them; and the smartest scouts IMO go with on field football skills rather than testing #s, and Herdman has been a play-making beast on defence in college ball. Might be nice for a MLB to be able to run a 4.6/4.7 range 40 but to suggest if they do not that they can't play pro is nonsense/garbage; just like writing off linemen who don\t put up 25+ bench reps in testing is myopic junk (there's a whole list of veteran or star pro linemen who got out benched by a lot by mediocre football player/ gym rats; just like there's a huge list of slower than average 40 time players who have proven 10x better football players than "athletes" with blazing 40 times).

Be nice if all CFL teams passed on Herdman in the 1st round and that gave the Argos a shot in the 2nd round? - not that they necessarily want to address MLB via the draft, but it is a glaring hole/need on this D now IMO, and Herdman would be worth a look there; as opposed to drafting another "depth" NI O-lineman cause that's what GOBs believe in/ are trained to think with the CFL draft.

[gilthethrill]

Wonder why Alondra Johnsons son Auston, a fine MLB in US College ball never made the cut in the CFL. OV, what is your take on that sir?

[OV Argo]

Wonder why Alondra Johnsons son Auston, a fine MLB in US College ball never made the cut in the CFL. OV, what is your take on that sir?

Not sure; but I don't believe he was even in the same area code as far as proven college ball D play-making as Herdman (Confrence D player of the year multiple times, all-star, tackle leader & record tackle setting stats, etc.), or Mulumba-T (Maine) this draft. And from what I recall, Auston Johnson's set of CFL Combine test #s were not exactly eye-popping. IF he had been a conference D player of the year in US college ball AND backed it up with some real good pro measureables (size + testing #s), then I would have found him not getting a real close CFL look kinda odd.

[Shatto]

OV Argo is absolutely correct, there are example of players with mediocre testing results becoming excellent players and excellent testers not even making pro. The concern for Jordon is not just his slow 40 but also his poor vertical jump and his struggles with the agility drills. If one compares his results to LB's presently on the Argo roster (all but one sub 4.80) and they have a definite height advantage over Jordon H; it is clear, unless he manages to improve his results in the combine, he could be in danger of sliding out the 1st round. This is not to denigrate his outstanding college performance but poor testing results may put doubt in the scouts' minds as to whether he can perform at a high level in the pros.

Hopefully, he improves at the combine and then goes on to a successful and rewarding pro career. It is noteworthy that Curtis Newton, who was a second team CIS All-Canadian at Guelph, had fractionally poorer 40 time (5.05) but ended up playing all 16 games for the Argos last year.

[OV Argo]

OV Argo is absolutely correct, there are example of players with mediocre testing results becoming excellent players and excellent testers not even making pro. The concern for Jordon is not just his slow 40 but also his poor vertical jump and his struggles with the agility drills. If one compares his results to LB's presently on the Argo roster (all but one sub 4.80) and they have a definite height advantage over Jordon H; it is clear, unless he manages to improve his results in the combine, he could be in danger of sliding out the 1st round. This is not to denigrate his outstanding college performance but poor testing results may put doubt in the scouts' minds as to whether he can perform at a high level in the pros.

Hopefully, he improves at the combine and then goes on to a successful and rewarding pro career. It is noteworthy that Curtis Newton, who was a second team CIS All-Canadian at Guelph, had fractionally poorer 40 time (5.05) but ended up playing all 16 games for the Argos last year.

Andy Fantuz ran one of the slowest Combine 40 times of any receiver to make a CFL roster in the past few decades probably. Only total brain-dead moron "scouts" would have ignored his off the charts outstanding receiver production in college ball (league leading + all-time record setting catch #s, and a CIS All-Canadian every season from rookie on in), and said "i think this guy is way too slow to play pro on my team" without at least considering to look at him in TC; gee i wonder if Fantuz was able to play at "pro level" ?

[Argo57]

Andy Fantuz ran one of the slowest Combine 40 times of any receiver to make a CFL roster in the past few decades probably. Only total brain-dead moron "scouts" would have ignored his off the charts outstanding receiver production in college ball (league leading + all-time record setting catch #s, and a CIS All-Canadian every season from rookie on in), and said "i think this guy is way too slow to play pro on my team" without at least considering to look at him in TC; gee i wonder if Fantuz was able to play at "pro level" ?

The obsession with combine numbers is puzzling sometimes, while speed, agility and strength are important these numbers are only part of the equation.
Watch game film and simply see if the player can play the game, novel concept.

[OV Argo]

The obsession with combine numbers is puzzling sometimes, while speed, agility and strength are important these numbers are only part of the equation.
Watch game film and simply see if the player can play the game, novel concept.

I believe this factor may be multiplied a bit with some G, er, you know, CFL "scouts" - who may have a bit of a condescending attitude towards Canadian talent: big deal - you led lowly CIS ball (in Herdman's case D II US college ball) in receiving or rushing or tackles or whatever; but you need to bench press x or run 40 time y to play in my league.

I`m quite interested in CFL Canadian prospects and follow their Combine performance and testing numbers, but IMO it is much more important to be an accomplished football player first; testing numbers are good backing material though - just not all important.

[jerrym]

The obsession with combine numbers is puzzling sometimes, while speed, agility and strength are important these numbers are only part of the equation.
Watch game film and simply see if the player can play the game, novel concept.

I think this is a phenomenon that goes beyond sport. For example, journalists love to discuss polls because you can't argue with the numbers (although you can argue with the poll methodology just as you can argue with whether scouts are testing the key variables in determining the success of an athlete). If the player's or poll's numbers don't match the actual result, the scout or journalist can say his conclusion was at least typical of others in the profession - i.e. he is not outside the mainstream and therefore at least average in his capabilities.

[ArgoRavi]

While I think combine and pro day results can be overrated, I understand the concerns with Herdman's numbers. Just because he was dominant at SFU, doesn't mean that he will be at the pro level facing much better athletes. That is where his testing numbers will cause concern for some.

[OV Argo]

While I think combine and pro day results can be overrated, I understand the concerns with Herdman's numbers. Just because he was dominant at SFU, doesn't mean that he will be at the pro level facing much better athletes. That is where his testing numbers will cause concern for some.

Sure, I think most would get those concerns Ravi - it's just how over-stated they may be at times; real scouting involves watching football players on the field.

And OTOH - there are some CFL NI prospects who have excellent on field resumes, backed by some excellent testing #s - and yet they still are no shown much respect come draft time, or subsequently when they get to a CFL team. Byron Archambault was a dominant defensive player for a top notch Carabins team, AND - he led the CFL Combine in both bench press # (a MLB type beating all linemen there) AND fastest shuttle run (a test that shows side to side quickness/ agility - a MLB type beat out all the DB & receiver types who are usually fastest and quickest guys in football) Totally uncharted territory for a player/athlete to have top scores in both those tests - should = an amazing "athlete" to some scouts. But Archambault was not a 1st round CFL draft pick, and he got next to zero playing time on Kenty's Ticats (played a bit of STs but also was injured some); and he has subsequently - I'd guess - seen the writing on the wall for a CFL career, and retired to coach at his old college team ?

The respect level for a lot of top notch Canadian football talent/athletes is IMO often lacking from a lot of GOBs; Herdman getting looked at as a back-up or depth guy would not surprise me; Kenty types see MLB as an American only position on their teams and would rather hand playing time to Taylor Reed or Larry Dean types.

[Will]

Can we cut out the usual please.