Maritime Expansion

[1argoholic]

You need big money east coast to step up like McCain's or Irving Oil. Perhaps Moncton is more willing then Dare could get seasons and make the trip over from Spud Island. Actually it's more mainland now that there's a bridge. haha

[OV Argo]

The extra 1st vs 4th games are a recipe for mismatches at a time when you've got the most eyeballs watching the league, and would tax teams trying to sell two home playoff games in consecutive weeks. The OUA showed what a huge mistake it was to have 8 playoff teams in a 10/11 team league, and they sensibly cut back to 6. Eliminating only two teams from a ten team league is fine for a kids league, but it's embarrassing for a pro league to give out what essentially would be participation medals for having mediocre or even terrible seasons. The CFL already gets enough unwarranted criticism. No need to give people a valid excuse to attack the league.

Disagree - it's way more "embarassing" and non-competitive to have 2 teams needing to play only one play-off game to get to the league championship - name another sport/league that has a long regular season with that kind of finish? Mismatches happen all the time in the play-offs BTW and CFL history the way you like it has seen teams with terrible records make the play-offs (see 81 East); and there could still be a cross-over rule if the 5th place team in one Division has a better record than the 4th in the other. 2 extra play-off games in the semis would be huge, IMO, for league exposure and provide for more interesting football - the bye set-up now with win one play-off game and you are in the GC is Mickey Mouse if there could be an alternative to make a team better earn it's way to the GC.

[AngeloV]

Disagree - it's way more "embarassing" and non-competitive to have 2 teams needing to play only one play-off game to get to the league championship - name another sport/league that has a long regular season with that kind of finish?

Baseball used to, and it was arguably better then because you were guaranteed of a team earning their way in. The NHL used to have 16 of 21 teams make it, and it was considered a joke at that time, as the Leafs would regularly make the playoffs with 63 or so points. In '81 when the Als made the playoffs with a 3-13 record, just beating out the 2-14 Argos, it was very embarrassing.

IMO, the season has to matter, otherwise people are paying good money for glorified exhibition games. If a .300 winning percentage makes the playoffs, then it really doesn't matter all that much.

[OV Argo]

Baseball used to, and it was arguably better then because you were guaranteed of a team earning their way in. The NHL used to have 16 of 21 teams make it, and it was considered a joke at that time, as the Leafs would regularly make the playoffs with 63 or so points. In '81 when the Als made the playoffs with a 3-13 record, just beating out the 2-14 Argos, it was very embarrassing.

IMO, the season has to matter, otherwise people are paying good money for glorified exhibition games. If a .300 winning percentage makes the playoffs, then it really doesn't matter all that much.

In baseball, you would have to win 4 games, minimum, even if you got a bye to the league Championship, to win the title. I didn't have a big problem with a lot of NHL teams making the play-offs, and at least nobody got to go to the Stanley Cup by winning one play-off game anyways - more than one series and 4 wins to take a series. The CFL has an 18 game sched compared to the 16 regular season NFL and that is more competitive, but at least no NFL team gets to go to the Super Bowl by winning just one play-off game.

CFL GC contestants have often, for a long-time now, only needed to win one play-off game to get a shot at the league Championship. Sorry, but IMO, this is wrong / not competitive enough. A first place finish in the division would give you home field for a one game semi if it was 1st vs. 4th with a 10 team league - that is a nice advantage (ALL home teams won the play-off games this year). The good old days of great CFL football (into the mid 70s) saw 2 game total point East & West finals = you had to win the equivalent of 2 play-off games to get to the GC even if you won first place in the division - I'd be in favor of those play-off days again.

[AngeloV]

In baseball, you would have to win 4 games, minimum, even if you got a bye to the league Championship, to win the title. I didn't have a big problem with a lot of NHL teams making the play-offs, and at least nobody got to go to the Stanley Cup by winning one play-off game anyways - more than one series and 4 wins to take a series. The CFL has an 18 game sched compared to the 16 regular season NFL and that is more competitive, but at least no NFL team gets to go to the Super Bowl by winning just one play-off game.

CFL GC contestants have often, for a long-time now, only needed to win one play-off game to get a shot at the league Championship. Sorry, but IMO, this is wrong / not competitive enough. A first place finish in the division would give you home field for a one game semi if it was 1st vs. 4th with a 10 team league - that is a nice advantage (ALL home teams won the play-off games this year). The good old days of great CFL football (into the mid 70s) saw 2 game total point East & West finals = you had to win the equivalent of 2 play-off games to get to the GC even if you won first place in the division - I'd be in favor of those play-off days again.

Well I don't have a problem with it. It is something that is earned over the long season, making the long season meaningful.

[R.J]

That's why the season is more meaningful, you have to earn the first round bye, but yeah let's ruin the point of the regular season by having 8 teams make the playoffs. Heck, we should start it for 2016, only 1 team missing the playoffs sounds great.

[argotom]

You need big money east coast to step up like McCain's or Irving Oil. Perhaps Moncton is more willing then Dare could get seasons and make the trip over from Spud Island. Actually it's more mainland now that there's a bridge. haha

I went to Moncton during the Argo game a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised.
Apparently there is money in the city and surrounding area, excluding the cheap McCain and Irving Oil.
They need a new stadium or a substantially renovated current one.

[R.J]

I went to Moncton during the Argo game a few years ago and was pleasantly surprised.
Apparently there is money in the city and surrounding area, excluding the cheap McCain and Irving Oil.
They need a new stadium or a substantially renovated current one.

The Elder McCain was one of the big backers of the Touchdown Atlantic series, so there was at least some interest in the beginning. However, when the last two games didn't sell out, IIRC McCain was quoted saying something along the lines of, "I guess this market isn't interested in the CFL" or it might have been "ready for the CFL", something along those lines.

[ArgoRavi]

I don't care for the idea of 8 of 10 teams making the playoffs either. I would prefer to see no team with a losing record make the playoffs but we usually get at least one of those currently with 6 of 9 making it. It would get ridiculous with 8 of 10 making it and I really don't want to see a 4-14 team make it like Ottawa did back in '93 and '94. To please OV, I am all for going back to the 1986 playoff format where the 4th place team in the West had a better record than the 3rd place team in the East. The result was that the West featured two semi-final games while the East had that memorable 2 game total point series to decide the division between the Argos and Ticats.

[JBarnsley]

After seeing Ottawa and their reception in the city, does Atlantic Canada not seem more likely than ever? Honestly the recipe for success is clear and on the table, Just need the right owner and a suitable stadium of 24,000.

[paulwoods13]

Just need the right owner and a suitable stadium of 24,000.

And enough ticket buyers and corporate support. Not too much to ask.

Ottawa is twice as big as Halifax and has some head offices. And a stadium.

As I have asked before, where will Halifax get $150M-200M for a stadium? Much less whether or not it has a big enough population and enough corporations to support a team. I'd love it but I don't expect to see it happen in my lifetime.

[shayman]

Ottawa is twice as big as Halifax and has some head offices. And a stadium.

Also - Ottawa was extremely lucky that there was already a stadium - albeit one needing repairs, and with NIMBY neighbours, etc - in an incredible location. Can you imagine trying to find a piece of property like that for a new team? It'd cost a hundred million just for the land. I'm sure they wouldn't be doing nearly as well if they'd had to build a new stadium out in the burbs.

(BMO will be great but oh man, if only Varsity had worked out ...)

[OV Argo]

And enough ticket buyers and corporate support. Not too much to ask.

Ottawa is twice as big as Halifax and has some head offices. And a stadium.

As I have asked before, where will Halifax get $150M-200M for a stadium? Much less whether or not it has a big enough population and enough corporations to support a team. I'd love it but I don't expect to see it happen in my lifetime.

I already suggested where the money could possibly come from - federal, provincial and municipal govts. + some rich local investors and businessmen (see Ottawa & OSEG) + the myopic cheapskate flints who run the CFL put together 10 million or so as a sign they are willing to contribute and get the ball rolling. But no - that is just impossible is it? - nice dream though.

Ever heard of the Saskatchewan Rough Riders ? - you know - the team that makes the most money, has SRO crowds and outdraws the biggest demographic in the league team and it's feeble fan base by miles, and, has the most widespread fan base and sells the most mechandise in the entire CFL ? Yep - that demographic in Regina couldn't possibly support a CFL team. People travel from all over the province to support the Green Riders. I'd bet there is a chance people could come from all over Atlantic Canada - Moncton, Saint John & other parts of New Brunswick, PEI, even some from football mad Quebec City area - to join with Nova Scotians to support a CFL team that might mean a lot to an entire region.

I'd love it to happen too, but am not as supportive of the excuses for it not to happen.

[R.J]

Also - Ottawa was extremely lucky that there was already a stadium - albeit one needing repairs, and with NIMBY neighbours, etc - in an incredible location. Can you imagine trying to find a piece of property like that for a new team? It'd cost a hundred million just for the land. I'm sure they wouldn't be doing nearly as well if they'd had to build a new stadium out in the burbs.

(BMO will be great but oh man, if only Varsity had worked out ...)

City of Halifax already owns a large chunk of the Shannon Park area and a huge piece of land in Dartmouth Crossing.

[paulwoods13]

I already suggested where the money could possibly come from - federal, provincial and municipal govts. + some rich local investors and businessmen (see Ottawa & OSEG) + the myopic cheapskate flints who run the CFL put together 10 million or so as a sign they are willing to contribute and get the ball rolling. But no - that is just impossible is it? - nice dream though.

Ever heard of the Saskatchewan Rough Riders ? - you know - the team that makes the most money, has SRO crowds and outdraws the biggest demographic in the league team and it's feeble fan base by miles, and, has the most widespread fan base and sells the most mechandise in the entire CFL ? Yep - that demographic in Regina couldn't possibly support a CFL team. People travel from all over the province to support the Green Riders. I'd bet there is a chance people could come from all over Atlantic Canada - Moncton, Saint John & other parts of New Brunswick, PEI, even some from football mad Quebec City area - to join with Nova Scotians to support a CFL team that might mean a lot to an entire region.

I'd love it to happen too, but am not as supportive of the excuses for it not to happen.

Yes, IMO it is impossible. I don't see any chance feds and Nova Scotia would cough up $140-190M to top up the imagined $10M from CFL (which, I'm just guessing, does not have that kind of cash on hand). And as I have said, I don't see any corporation investing significant dollars on a venture with 10 revenue events per year (plus a slice of TV money) in a market that small. Yes, there would be some travel within the region and maybe one or two big concerts, but someone has to invest enough to make this happen, and I just don't see the kind of investment generating enough return to warrant doing it. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

[OV Argo]

Yes, IMO it is impossible. I don't see any chance feds and Nova Scotia would cough up $140-190M to top up the imagined $10M from CFL (which, I'm just guessing, does not have that kind of cash on hand). And as I have said, I don't see any corporation investing significant dollars on a venture with 10 revenue events per year (plus a slice of TV money) in a market that small. Yes, there would be some travel within the region and maybe one or two big concerts, but someone has to invest enough to make this happen, and I just don't see the kind of investment generating enough return to warrant doing it. I would LOVE to be proven wrong.

Yep -getting all 3 levels of govt. on board to make this project happen would be difficult and a big hurdle; you think the Federal govt ever throws huge wads of cash at a project they take a shine to and in an area where they have big support? - 100 million is basically pocket change there; but OK - "impossible"


FYI - OSEG = several rich, local and community minded businessmen formed a group and put up LOTS of money. along with the City putting up fund$, towards making Lansdowne park a huge project for Ottawa including a new (mostly) stadium and several other buildings & projects/businesses on site; the Halifax project does not need to be as extensive - stadium first and foremost but also some other development (that i suggested earlier in this thread) that appeals to a wide group of people/consumers = wayyyyy more use than your imagined 10 events a year. Did you think it was "impossible" for tons of money to be invested at Lansdowne and a new stadium to get done there?

[paulwoods13]

Yep -getting all 3 levels of govt. on board to make this project happen would be difficult and a big hurdle; you think the Federal govt ever throws huge wads of cash at a project they take a shine to and in an area where they have big support? - 100 million is basically pocket change there; but OK - "impossible"

There are many gigantic govt-funded projects to build needed infrastructure under way: bridge repairs, highways, public transit. Would a football stadium open 10-20 times a year be considered worthy of $100M? I think not.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle26721520/


Here's what the current govt said about infrastructure funding in its campaign material. Not seeing any references to playgrounds for pro athletes.

Nearly double federal infrastructure investment to almost $125 billion – from the current $65 billion – over the next decade, reaching an additional $9.5 billion by year ten;
Make an immediate down payment to kick-start job creation and economic growth by doubling the current federal infrastructure investment in each of the next two fiscal years;
Provide new, dedicated funding to provinces, territories, and municipalities for:
Public transit infrastructure,
Social infrastructure – including affordable housing and seniors facilities, early learning and child care, and cultural and recreational infrastructure,
Green infrastructure – including local and wastewater facilities, climate resilient infrastructure, and clean energy;
Increase the transparency of the New Building Canada Fund by providing clearer project criteria and faster approval processes that will now prioritize investments in roads, bridges, transportation, ports, and border gateways; . . .


https://www.liberal.ca/trudeau-commi...adian-history/

[R.J]

It can be done, if there was interest. Federal government funding would most likely be extremely hard, but Provincial and Municipal funding isn't "impossible". The Provincial government in BC paid $514 million for the BC Place renos, Edmonton received over $100 million from the City for the Commonwealth renos, not to mention the ridiculous amount of money given for Rogers place. The Riders new $278 million stadium is largely government funded ($25 million has to come from the Riders up front), even moreso in Winnipeg (tally around $245 million and counting) and Ottawa's stadium and arena were renovated with government money, private money went to building the stores, restaurants, movie theatre, hotel and condos. If a Lansdowne Live were to be built in Halifax, which it should be noted that's the model they're looking at. Whether or not Nova Scotia and Halifax want to spend the money is the question at this time, but I think if someone came up with a good enough plan in can and will be done, not "impossible" IMO. "Unlikely" is the word I'd use.

[OV Argo]

It can be done, if there was interest. Federal government funding would most likely be extremely hard, but Provincial and Municipal funding isn't "impossible". The Provincial government in BC paid $514 million for the BC Place renos, Edmonton received over $100 million from the City for the Commonwealth renos, not to mention the ridiculous amount of money given for Rogers place. The Riders new $278 million stadium is largely government funded ($25 million has to come from the Riders up front), even moreso in Winnipeg (tally around $245 million and counting) and Ottawa's stadium and arena were renovated with government money, private money went to building the stores, restaurants, movie theatre, hotel and condos. If a Lansdowne Live were to be built in Halifax, which it should be noted that's the model they're looking at. Whether or not Nova Scotia and Halifax want to spend the money is the question at this time, but I think if someone came up with a good enough plan in can and will be done, not "impossible" IMO. "Unlikely" is the word I'd use.

??? !!!

Ay caramba - the BC Provincial govt paid $514 million to reno BC place ??? - so how was that "possible", but it's "impossible" for a combined effort group of federal, provincial, municipal govts. + some private investors/rich local business-people + the CFL to put together 200 million for a stadium/recreation/consumer project in Halifax ??? "Social infrastructure" including cultural & recreational - the new Liberal federal govt. says they will spend money there - how does a 25K stadium (that the area lacks) plus some other smart development that could potentially serve/help all of Atlantic Canada - not qualify ???

[paulwoods13]

Wake me up when this happens. I'm in dreamland in the meantime.