Is David Braley's Other Team Following a Parallel History to that of the Argos

[jerrym]

The following in-depth article in the Vancouver Sun about the BC Lions position in the Vancouver sports spectrum seems to be following in an eerily parallel but delayed trajectory to that of the Argos: declining attendance, challenges from old and new competition for fans especially with growing competition from the soccer team, an aging fan base, an NFL challenge, TV ratings, etc.

If demographics explain why Major League Soccer’s Vancouver Whitecaps will soon take over as the second biggest team on the West Coast, but aren’t quite there yet, blame it on TV.Television is the single biggest reason why the B.C. Lions and the CFL will continue to hold down the No. 2 spot behind the NHL’s Vancouver Canucks in the brand sweepstakes of professional sport in British Columbia — at least for another few years.
Those are the findings of a special report entitled Champions of The Sport Market — Vancouver 2015, presented in association with The Vancouver Sun. ...

Despite all of the market-leading metrics around the Canucks and the comprehensive work they’re now engaged in to stop the brand-bleed of 2012, 2013 and early 2014, it’s the emerging business rivalry between the Whitecaps and Lions that merits attention in a changing Vancouver sports landscape.
No sports franchise in Canada has grown more in relative terms over the past five years — a 280-fold increase — than the Whitecaps. In 2010, the Whitecaps were a United States Soccer Federation Tier 2 franchise valued at about $250,000 and playing before crowds averaging 4,400 at Burnaby’s Swangard Stadium. They only dabbled in radio while television coverage was limited to selected home games on Shaw community cable.
Now in their fifth season in Major League Soccer, the Whitecaps are pegged at about $70 million in franchise valuation. That’s almost three times the $27-million price tag accorded the Lions on the strength of their share of the new $40-million CFL television deal struck with TSN two years ago. The Whitecaps are playing before crowds averaging just a little under 21,000 at BC Place Stadium, renovated to the tune of $563 million in 2010-11, compared to about 28,000 for the Lions.
Make no mistake, the heritage brand of the Lions can still lay claim to being the second most popular team in B.C. in 2015 — as illustrated in a recent public opinion survey of sports fans commissioned by CTV — and they should be able to continue to do so for as long as the CFL on TSN drives average national audiences north of 750,000 per game (including to between 350,000 and 400,000 across B.C. for Lions games). That kind of television platform is huge in an era in which sports sponsorship and advertising is still ratings driven, even in a largely gate-driven league such as the CFL.
The Lions hold a significant advantage over the Whitecaps in terms of average television audiences (about 700,000 to 140,000 in 2014). Those numbers will continue to skew in favour of the CFL as long as it has three times the number of Canadian markets (nine) as MLS (three). Every Lions game on TSN attracts viewers from the opposing market, along with hard-core CFL fans tuning in from other markets. On the other hand, only 15 per cent of the Whitecaps games on TSN are against Canadian opponents and the MLS is much more relevant in Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal than it is in the CFL strongholds of Regina, Winnipeg, Edmonton and Calgary.
The Lions also have a 62-year tradition upon which to build, including the single biggest domestic annual sports event in Canada: the Grey Cup. The CFL championship game is usually a five-million viewer event on TSN and RDS, second behind only the National Football League’s Super Bowl as the biggest annual sport television event in Canada. The Grey Cup is also typically a 45,000-to-50,000 ticket holder event in-stadium, even when a home team fails to reach the final. Not even the most ardent soccer enthusiast would suggest the MLS Cup could hold a candle to that in any Canadian market; at least not anytime in the near future.
Yet the Lions can only rely on their heritage and tradition — which is more than a generation older than the 41-year history of the Whitecaps — for so long. In fact, with the oldest fan base of any of the Vancouver-based sport franchises, the Lions will need to follow in the footsteps of incoming CFL commissioner Jeffrey Orridge and make a priority out of growing the next generation of football fans. Both the club and the league need to do everything they can to make the CFL “cooler” in the minds of that all-important 18-to-34-year-old demographic.
The Lions are second only to the Canucks in the 55-plus age group and still holding their own against the Whitecaps among those aged 35-to-54, but it’s in the demographic breakdown where the soccer club is making big strides. It’s simply no contest in favour of the Whitecaps among millennials, the youngest adult sports fans that represent the business upside for any sport franchise. An AFI Group study in 2014 showed that about a third (30.3 per cent) of Whitecaps adult fans buying tickets were ages 18-to-34, with less than 16 per cent 55 or older. That compares to about 36 per cent of Lions fans in the 55-plus demographic. ...

Independent sponsor research shows that Whitecaps fans are younger and more urban. Fans of the Lions have become older and more suburban. Within the decade, some suggest the gap between the average age of Whitecaps and Lions fans could be as much as six or seven years if current trending continues. That’s a canyon of a difference for demographers and the corporate brands advertising in sports. Also important is overall brand awareness, which a 2014 survey by Mustel Group Market Research showed had climbed to 81 per cent for the Whitecaps in Greater Vancouver; an increase of nine per cent over their five years in MLS. That compares to a drop of 15 per cent by the Lions in the same time period. ...
If you’re looking for tangible evidence of that growing gap, one need only note how seriously the Whitecaps take their social marketing. That’s one area — along with game presentation and fan experience — where the Whitecaps are winning the war for new young fans. Whereas the local MLS club holds only a small lead over the Lions on Facebook, they are running away with Twitter, with almost twice as many followers (135,000 to 74,100).
When one considers the macro demographics affecting sports tastes in North America, the future looks even brighter for soccer and the Whitecaps. That’s why MLS is not the second coming of the old North American Soccer League, the flashy circuit featuring global icons such as Pele and Franz Beckenbauer that crashed as quickly as it soared in the late 1970s. MLS is a league with a sustainable business model and favourable collective bargaining agreements. Moreover, with Canada becoming more multicultural and the world getting smaller through technology and expanded access to specialty television and online video streaming, soccer is a much bigger deal on TV than it was in the heyday of the NASL.

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/C...298/story.html

[AngeloV]

I've said this many times over the last year, but Braley was extremely lucky that Bobby Ackles came back to that organization prior to his passing. It's pretty sad that Braley couldn't have learned anything from the work ethic Ackles showed to make that team a business success.

Is Braley just senile? How did he ever become so successful? He has not shown any business sense in his sports ventures. Is he just a modern day Harold Ballard without the added drama?

[gilthethrill]

I suggested a while back on the forum that the White Caps were on the verge of surpassing the Lions in popularity. It is nice the Lions let them play in their stadium. I disagree however about the CFL skewing TV ratings due to the fact there are 9 teams in the CFL as opposed to 3 Canadian teams in the MLS. CFL games get great numbers on TSN no matter who is playing...fans of other CFL teams are still watching.

Not sure how relevant Facebook & Twitter is in the long run. Will be a sad day for me if MLS does become more popular in Canada than the CFL though.

[Qman]

I suggested a while back on the forum that the White Caps were on the verge of surpassing the Lions in popularity. It is nice the Lions let them play in their stadium. I disagree however about the CFL skewing TV ratings due to the fact there are 9 teams in the CFL as opposed to 3 Canadian teams in the MLS. CFL games get great numbers on TSN no matter who is playing...fans of other CFL teams are still watching.

Not sure how relevant Facebook & Twitter is in the long run. Will be a sad day for me if MLS does become more popular in Canada than the CFL though.

Thats crap. The lions get #1 LOCAL tv numbers in the country. they draw 250k-400k per game on TV, bascially the same as the canucks do locally. Whitecap wouldn't even get close to cracking 100k locally, they just get there national. As well, what you don't the whitecaps still tarp of 1/3rd of the lower bowl, so it looks good on TV. For wednesday games, the whitecaps draw maybe 10-15k, maybe 20k on weekends, 22k for seattle and portland. Lions tix are double the price of whitecaps.

The lions are dealing with what every team deals with when they go from a top team to a middle team, a drop in interest until they start improving. Plus, because local traffic sucks so much now the only people that go to games live in Vancouver city or along a skytrain route. The rest can watch it free in HD without battling traffic. Vancouver is a 25k market, 35k for saskatchewan, 30k after labour day. Its been that way for 30 years

[argonaut11xx]

I've said this many times over the last year, but Braley was extremely lucky that Bobby Ackles came back to that organization prior to his passing. It's pretty sad that Braley couldn't have learned anything from the work ethic Ackles showed to make that team a business success.

Is Braley just senile? How did he ever become so successful? He has not shown any business sense in his sports ventures. Is he just a modern day Harold Ballard without the added drama?

Lets not forget that Braley owned the Ti-cats, and did a "BIG BAG OF NOTHING" to improve the fortunes of that team as well.

As for the Article on the Lions, i see people wearing Lions gear DAILY, all year around.(That just my observation as a newbie to BC). Havent seen folks wearing Whitecaps stuff near as much-maybe a 50-1 ratio.

Except for maybe 1982-1985, I dont recall seeing many folks wearing Argo gear in the Toronto area at all.

[Fumblitis]

What is it with skyrocketing TV numbers in Toronto and Vancouver and piss poor or declining attendance. What is MLS doing to get people to the stadium that the CFL isn't?

[Qman]

What is it with skyrocketing TV numbers in Toronto and Vancouver and piss poor or declining attendance. What is MLS doing to get people to the stadium that the CFL isn't?

putting money into quality stadium experience.
its free on tv

[Invader]

Thats crap. The lions get #1 LOCAL tv numbers in the country. they draw 250k-400k per game on TV, bascially the same as the canucks do locally. Whitecap wouldn't even get close to cracking 100k locally, they just get there national. As well, what you don't the whitecaps still tarp of 1/3rd of the lower bowl, so it looks good on TV. For wednesday games, the whitecaps draw maybe 10-15k, maybe 20k on weekends, 22k for seattle and portland. Lions tix are double the price of whitecaps.

The lions are dealing with what every team deals with when they go from a top team to a middle team, a drop in interest until they start improving. Plus, because local traffic sucks so much now the only people that go to games live in Vancouver city or along a skytrain route. The rest can watch it free in HD without battling traffic. Vancouver is a 25k market, 35k for saskatchewan, 30k after labour day. Its been that way for 30 years

Excellent overview, Qman! The traffic in Vancouver and perhaps in Toronto, is so bad many fans elect not to drive downtown for the games. The consolation is CFL games are terrific in HDTV, but there's nothing like being there!

TFC may have soldout games but the stadium looked less than half full for several games last year. I suspect TFC and Whitecaps have strong corporate sales, unlike the Argos and Lions, and might have a hard time giving away their tickets. There is little comparison between the CFL and MLS on TV. One TFC game last year vs. Chicago drew only 14,000 viewers across Canada...while the Argos are one of the top draws on TV in the league.

[ArgoRavi]

While there is no specific Argos/CFL content here, Chris Zelkovich's latest column certainly applies to the CFL and helps explain why the league went the route that they did in hiring Jeffrey Orridge as commissioner: https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh...193007391.html

[AngeloV]

TFC may have soldout games but the stadium looked less than half full for several games last year. I suspect TFC and Whitecaps have strong corporate sales, unlike the Argos and Lions, and might have a hard time giving away their tickets.

Strong corporate sales..unlike the Argos and Lions. Do you see a common denominator here? Oh yeah..your Hero David Braley has no idea how to begin a corporate sponsorship.

The 2nd part of your statement about they might have a hard time giving away their tickets...I can guarantee you there were more butts in the seats for TFC home games than there were for Argos home games in 2014. Do you want to see what less than half full really is...and against their top draw no less?

988903_10204545112081060_323188212205879708_n.jpg
Why must you constantly BS your way through every post you make regarding this topic?

[Ron]

All Braley knows how to do is save CFL teams from extinction to give their fans stuff to bitch about.

[Fumblitis]

Strong corporate sales..unlike the Argos and Lions. Do you see a common denominator here? Oh yeah..your Hero David Braley has no idea how to begin a corporate sponsorship.

The 2nd part of your statement about they might have a hard time giving away their tickets...I can guarantee you there were more butts in the seats for TFC home games than there were for Argos home games in 2014. Do you want to see what less than half full really is...and against their top draw no less?

Attachment 561
Why must you constantly BS your way through every post you make regarding this topic?

In that photo you provided...lots of black and gold speckled through out all those empty blue seats.



Is there going to be a section of exhibition place where you could have a pre game gathering for fans to have a bevy, socialize and games to enhance the game day experience when they move to BMO? That's of course when they have an owner to that contributes to the game day experience.

[T-Bone]

Is there going to be a section of exhibition place where you could have a pre game gathering for fans to have a bevy, socialize and games to enhance the game day experience when they move to BMO? That's of course when they have an owner to that contributes to the game day experience.

TFC currently does it at the north end of the stadium between BMO Field and the Food Building. They put up temporary fences on the west and east side with ushers to scan your ticket. The Argos have done something similar at Rogers Centre a few times over the past couple of years with mixed results.

[AngeloV]

All Braley knows how to do is save CFL teams from extinction to give their fans stuff to bitch about.

OK Ron..you keep going with that party line.

[argotom]

All Braley knows how to do is save CFL teams from extinction to give their fans stuff to bitch about.

Without Mr. Braley there is a good chance there would be no CFL right now.
Too many people here and on other boards are piling on this gentleman.
He deserves whatever he is looking to sell both teams.
Frankly even in this wannabe US marketplace here in Toronto, $20M is not much to ask for a professional team in a treasured league.
Especially when on the opposite end of the scale the most valued team is likely worth north of $100M.

[Argo57]

Without Mr. Braley there is a good chance there would be no CFL right now.
Too many people here and on other boards are piling on this gentleman.
He deserves whatever he is looking to sell both teams.
Frankly even in this wannabe US marketplace here in Toronto, $20M is not much to ask for a professional team in a treasured league.
Especially when on the opposite end of the scale the most valued team is likely worth north of $100M.

What time do you take the stage at Yuk Yuks??

[Qman]

Without Mr. Braley there is a good chance there would be no CFL right now.
Too many people here and on other boards are piling on this gentleman.
He deserves whatever he is looking to sell both teams.
Frankly even in this wannabe US marketplace here in Toronto, $20M is not much to ask for a professional team in a treasured league.
Especially when on the opposite end of the scale the most valued team is likely worth north of $100M.

Both the esks and riders are easily worth more than $100m, maybe $200m. both teams make massive profits.
They make way more than most NHL teams.
Esks just plowed $12m into new seats and $97m into a new indoor practice facility.
Riders put their profits into $15m upgrade into taylor field and a ton into their new stadium.

[paulwoods13]

Both the esks and riders are easily worth more than $100m, maybe $200m. both teams make massive profits.
They make way more than most NHL teams.

I think all three of these statements are absurd, but if you have some info that would support them I am all ears.

[argotom]

I think all three of these statements are absurd, but if you have some info that would support them I am all ears.

Say what?
Yes I now get it, it's absurd because it cannot be the mom and pop friendly CFL!
It's common knowledge for those in the know, how the Riders and Esks are making a boatload of profit every year.
The Riders are averaging $15M+ for the last many years not to mention the extra windfall from the GC.
Simple math if you use the rule of thumb how a corporation may be worth a multiple of 10 times its profit.
But then again you are the so called expert as penning a CFL novel?

[Fumblitis]

10.4 million in 2013 (plus Grey Cup 9.3 million) plus 1.1 million
http://www.leaderpost.com/touch/story.html?id=9884995

1.1 million in 2012
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/sask...ofit-1.1324341

6.6 and 3.1 million in 2010 and 2009 respectively
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/sask...-6-m-1.1026355

3.8 million in 2011
http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/canada/sask...ason-1.1163028

And for the Eskimos you'll have to rely on your friendly neighbourhood Eskimo fan.